its a mid engined car with a road ie idiot proof setup
they understerr a lot

@ daniel

Sorry but i honestly have no idea what you're talking about, have you even played it?? Cause you wonder if the Lotus is ingame lol.

Sounds to me like a severe case of LFS fanboyism, coupled with hardware incapable of running AC.. so the best deal is to bash it.

Quote from danielroelofs :

Yes, original tracks and cars, graphics.. yes those are definitely outdated. Anyway I personally dont really care about that much in a sim. But indeed the physics.. glad you now recognize the quality of them

To explain what I mean.

Watch from 1.02 min.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scdjJBXKGqw

And also the video of the lotus... but thats not ingame i assume? It's not my thing... let's put it that way than, I personally wouldn't define it otherwise than arcade.

Arcade ?


We are all in the same boat we all love or loved lfs , because , its time to move on ...

Its time to get time transition for not 8 to 18 in the future will be 24 , its time to real tracks real cars real physics rain etc etc , time to move on

Quote :

@ daniel

Sorry but i honestly have no idea what you're talking about, have you even played it?? Cause you wonder if the Lotus is ingame lol.

You might get that idea by start reading my posts which will avoid asking questions of which you could have already known the aswer




But as far as I can see there is a difference in preferences for a sim... good good.. different taste makes the world much more fun

Why do you wonder if the Lotus video kars posted is ingame? Seriously, LFS has served me exceptionally, from 2005 to 2008/9, time to move on.. and this has come like a perfect evolution of LFS.

And honestly, i fired it up the other day cause my wheel calibration was all messed up in AC, wanted to see how it behaves in LFS, went with LX4 on Aston, and the whole experience screamed "outdated". I felt nothing, everything was floaty and stuff.. so wierd.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

Why do you wonder if the Lotus video kars posted is ingame? Seriously, LFS has served me exceptionally, from 2005 to 2008/9, time to move on.. and this has come like a perfect evolution of LFS.

And honestly, i fired it up the other day cause my wheel calibration was all messed up in AC, wanted to see how it behaves in LFS, went with LX4 on Aston, and the whole experience screamed "outdated". I felt nothing, everything was floaty and stuff.. so wierd.

Yes 2008 for what i saw was one of the last glory days , but if lfs dont evolve , time to move on , its like with money to spend having a logitech shitty wheel and not buying a g27 or that because only the other shitty wheel is the best (not saying lfs is shit) , people are in rfactor why ? beacause there is nothing similar not cause is the best , people that still in lfs are the ones with shitty pcs or dont like rfactor or dont have the money to iracing

Quote from danielroelofs :

You might get that idea by start reading my posts which will avoid asking questions of which you could have already known the aswer




But as far as I can see there is a difference in preferences for a sim... good good.. different taste makes the world much more fun

I respect your enthusiasm to drive the same cars and track since 2004-2005, but I'll just fly off to have fun in Assetto Corsa, which offeres nearly more content than LFS after just a few months of being released with decent enough physics to have a comparision to LFS.

I don't see the point of linking a video with a freaking cruise driver starting turns from the inside line. Of course it will understeer, not to mention the grandma-proof default setup.

I see that you love the way LFS setups are so widely changable, but there is one thing to notice. Those settings are pretty wild, and totally far from real. I want to see you setting that many things up in a simple road car, also the irrealistic setup values in most of the cars. Just because it's faster and feels better. At least AC has drawn a limit at what you can setup in a car, in the courts of realism.

AC is arcade - now I've heard it all.

I knew this would happen though, the whole setup issue is a bigger deal than most guys are realizing. Like Shotglass just said: a consumer road car with a mid engine layout - it's SUPPOSED to understeer. Remember the Clarkson video driving the Elise?

LFS was/is a great sim but that setup nonsense has created a silly mindset that road-cars would ever practically drive they way you can make them in LFS. One of the reasons I always supported that "showroom stock" option and flag for servers.

That forum is doing my head in.. Full of kids who litterally know nothing yet ask for stupid stuff..

I just hope kunos doesnt give in to their demands and turn a potentially amazing sim into another simcade title purely because there is more money in it.

Quote from danielroelofs :

Watch from 1.02 min.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scdjJBXKGqw

There is a difference between inducing understeer and plain understeer. This driver clearly is lacking the driving ability to properly hit the apex and therefore continues to turn the wheel as if he is playing an arcade game. Instead of AC responding to the induced understeer in an arcade like way, AC instead reads the induced understeer and washes the car out wide. If this behavior is wrong, then why does LFS do the exact same thing if it is so much more accurate?

The 458, as mentioned above, has a mid-engine layout that is built for general understeer. If you drive it more aggressive on entry, creating a small amount of rear slip, then the balance raises drastically. You can't expect a Porsche Carrera Cup car to drive like a BMW Z4 GT3 as the cars are configured very differently and therefore warrant a different style of driving.

In short, the video you posted contradicts your statement, and simply proves that LFS and AC behave the same (realistically) in that scenario.

Quote from PMD9409 :

There is a difference between inducing understeer and plain understeer. This driver clearly is lacking the driving ability to properly hit the apex and therefore continues to turn the wheel as if he is playing an arcade game. Instead of AC responding to the induced understeer in an arcade like way, AC instead reads the induced understeer and washes the car out wide. If this behavior is wrong, then why does LFS do the exact same thing if it is so much more accurate?

The 458, as mentioned above, has a mid-engine layout that is built for general understeer. If you drive it more aggressive on entry, creating a small amount of rear slip, then the balance raises drastically. You can't expect a Porsche Carrera Cup car to drive like a BMW Z4 GT3 as the cars are configured very differently and therefore warrant a different style of driving.

In short, the video you posted contradicts your statement, and simply proves that LFS and AC behave the same (realistically) in that scenario.

+1 Very well explained.

As someone who has done a lot of instructing work in supercars, I can tell you that the 458 behaves and feels very similar to a mid engined Ferrari... It is certainly not arcade. It is designed to understeer if driven improperly. Remember, these cars are designed for footballers girlfriends to be able to drive safely, while still offering a precision track experience. This is not easy to pull off.

I owned a BMW E30. It is "scary" how similar it behaves to my real one. If I ever was going to use the phrase "they nailed it" it would be here (with reservation for even more improvements )!

I cannot speak for the supercars (never had one :razz, but the supposed "understeering" complaint referred to in that video is simply due to useless driving.

Also, AC needs a bit of tweaking before it settles nicely with your rig/setup, just like LFS and RBR etc. Time will tell if it will be the success that LFS is/was. The netcode is obviously going to be the key in terms of the MP experience. Happy driving!

-_-

I rest my case...

@Kristi,
Sure I do understand that the content in AC is very nice, graphics are better, real Ferraris to drive.. and obviously this is very attractive. (And yes obviously LFS is outdated by far and I would also like new and real exising tracks and cars!) But it feels like a step back for me in physics and as that's the key thing I am searching in a sim, I am not willing to exchange this.

The thing is that with the short experience I have with AC, this video explains how I felt driving it. For me there was a lack of feel between the road and the car and all cars seems to have this. I do have plenty of roadcar racing experience in real life, but to me this video still shows what is imo not right, and not just because of the understeer but the whole situation..

It might have some great potential, but without physics updates it won't win my heart.

Quote from danielroelofs :

-_-

I rest my case...

@Kristi,
Sure I do understand that the content in AC is very nice, graphics are better, real Ferraris to drive.. and obviously this is very attractive. (And yes obviously LFS is outdated by far and I would also like new and real exising tracks and cars!) But it feels like a step back for me in physics and as that's the key thing I am searching in a sim, I am not willing to exchange this.

The thing is that with the short experience I have with AC, this video explains how I felt driving it. For me there was a lack of feel between the road and the car and all cars seems to have this. I do have plenty of roadcar racing experience in real life, but to me this video still shows what is imo not right, and not just because of the understeer but the whole situation..

It might have some great potential, but without physics updates it won't win my heart.

, so everybody feels the heigth of the car etc , and you dont , hum .. someting is wrong maybe 10k people are wrong and you are rigth

Im saying all these because i have tested a retested all cars i have near 700 hours on it

Edit

Ingame very good hot lap http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgkyUua-Hbw around 1.54

Real life hot lap http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYHeckP0lfk around 2.05

There is one coach of AC Milan.. but 10k fans think they can do a better job.

The ones here on LFS a couple of the best drivers here agreed on LFS still having better physics, those with real life racing experience. I dont care what the mass says as the mass these days on lfs consists of drifters or cruisers.... And besides that, i'm not really the person to change his opinion while having another one than "the mass" ..

And... felt the height of the car? wut u talk about lol..

Not searching for a right or wrong.. u can have your preferences they are just not really mine.

Dear Daniel,

Just because LFS 'feels nice', it doesn't mean it's realistic.

Regards,

Common Sense.

Quote from danielroelofs :

There is one coach of AC Milan.. but 10k fans think they can do a better job.

The ones here on LFS a couple of the best drivers here agreed on LFS still having better physics, those with real life racing experience. I dont care what the mass says as the mass these days on lfs consists of drifters or cruisers.... And besides that, i'm not really the person to change his opinion while having another one than "the mass" ..

And... felt the height of the car? wut u talk about lol..

Not searching for a right or wrong.. u can have your preferences they are just not really mine.

With this u killed everything around us, you nailed this universum.

I think u should not come anymore at this topic.
(that was suicide what u wrote there, a litle help for you so you understand what im trying to say)

cHirs

@danielroelofs: don't despair!
The way AC physics works is in it's own a step forward, just like LFS once took (and still trotts along). I think it comes down to a very personal level wether or not it "feels right". And that depends on your pc rig/hardware peripherals and how "you" would like the feeling transferred to your brain.

The funny thing is that AC feels just as LFS to me, that's why I like it. Although the weight transfer is better perceived in AC. I only have a G25, and with my personal tweaks I can achieve a very "pleasant" feeling in both AC and LFS. Now, AC still has a long way to go until it is a final product, but I hope the platform presented in its early access will suit many of us, just like LFS once did (and still does).

It is fun to have a title finally challenging LFS, so I can only see positive things coming out of it (for me). Hope you will find the sweetspot in AC eventually as you did in LFS. If not, stick with LFS, many (including me) will still be around LFS for a long time to come.

With that attitude he will never get it. I was like that when comparing LFS with rFactor, but just because rFactor DOES have awful physics and there's even no point debating it.
But AC? Feels like Scawen works with Kunos..

Quote from Boris Lozac :

With that attitude he will never get it. I was like that when comparing LFS with rFactor, but just because rFactor DOES have awful physics and there's even no point debating it.
But AC? Feels like Scawen works with Kunos..

Yaup , and daniel is forgetting that none of the lfs/assetto corsa cars are similar

Well, you can compare the FZR and 458 as they are the same engine layout. They handle pretty similarly, unless you start driving an FZR with irrealistic dampers and ARBs. They both have the understeer on entry and oversteer on exit. That's the nature of these mid engined cars, which AC has plenty of. I see that you want to be outstanding by not following the mass, but you can't deny how much more alive AC feels after playing LFS. It's a whole new level in terms of car handling. LFS feels like driving on rails after AC, maybe cause I played this for 10+ years... but I guess that's how it is for me. AC still gives a challenge to handle the car around the limit.

Quote from Kristi :

Well, you can compare the FZR and 458 as they are the same engine layout.

Uhh, FZR is rear engine, 458 is mid-engine.

Can I say this thread is the LFS community at its best (or worst)?

Quote from Keling :

Can I say this thread is the LFS community at its best (or worst)?

Of course