But before S2 I think there was talk that F9 would be disabled in races, is it realistic to see the thickness of the tire middle of the race? Specially in the roadcars. And I think adding a featrure where you could see your last set like in F9, and roll the tires so you could avoid measuring temps from your flatspots would be good to have in the pits. It does not need removal of F9 in game. You should pretty much ignore the 1st post, I think thats one of those visions you get middle of the night when you can't sleep.

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And Becky, there are all sorts of sensorless and effective RL tire analysis methods that will take us too much time and trouble to explain.

Is there a way to tell if your flatspotted?

A problem I had once is my brother flatspotted a set of tyres and when I took over (I do endurance) the vibrations where so sickening I was having trouble keeping my lunch down let alone be competetive. Unfortunately my brother denied all knowledge of ever having made a mistake, like his hand scrubbing of the tyres (likely where the flatspot came from), and said it was just the brand of tyre (he didn't like them) and made me start the next race with the same problem too.

In F1 flatspots seem to show up more with that tell-tale dark line, but I couldn't see anything like that when it happened to me. It occurs to me that a subtle flatspot isn't that hard to spot on the surface of a tyre - but the effects are still quite catastrophic and produce more vibration than a pair of AA batteries, so any tips you have of spotting flatspots would be greatly appreciated !

Having experienced it I think LFS is not really right in not having the effects of a flatspot travel through the steering arm, there is perpetual vibration throughout the vehicle and the wheel isn't necessarily vibrating in sync to the rest of the chasis.

Racing is a bit like strapping a jet engine to a dart, sitting on the dart, and lighting the blue touch paper. Racing with a flatspot is a bit like strapping a jet engine to a vibrator, sitting on the ....

So was this in a kart or in a bigger car?

It would be nice to see better flatspot modelling/simulation. The flatspots lock up nicely at the moment and eventually can lead to blowing up your tire but you cant really feel it. So before devs can even consider removing F9 from races, there should be a way feeling them trought the wheel. But from what you said....wouldn't it be guite bad for FFB (or should we just get ourself jet powered vibrators? )? And do they effect in handling in other ways than that the tires lock up more easily?

Unfrotunately, without looking and touching the tire you said about myself, it's rather hard to draw any conclusions. I assume that you felt a vibration through your steering that gets faster with increasing speed, since frequency of tire rotation increases with speed. I also assumed that you weren't just feeling road surface induced vibration if it is as extreme as you claim. And you don't need a go kart direct steering system to feel the vibrations. In road cars, the flat spot would be particularly obvious at certain speeds due to resonance, though the exact frequency is very case dependant.

Well, IRL, flat spot induced vibrations tend to show up very well even for road cars. The reason flatpots are obvious is the fact that they cause tires to get out of round, so a flat spoted car basically sxperiences a constant rise and fall cycle that's speed dependent.

Quote from Becky Rose :

Is there a way to tell if your flatspotted?

A problem I had once is my brother flatspotted a set of tyres and when I took over (I do endurance) the vibrations where so sickening I was having trouble keeping my lunch down let alone be competetive. Unfortunately my brother denied all knowledge of ever having made a mistake, like his hand scrubbing of the tyres (likely where the flatspot came from), and said it was just the brand of tyre (he didn't like them) and made me start the next race with the same problem too.

i thought u raced karts?

when i drive my kart i come FLYING into the pits and do a huge lock up for 10 or 20m as to not oil my engine up, and i never feel the flatspots, and this is with tyres so soft that get so hot that it hurts to touch them after a session.
http://www.karting1.co.uk/karting-lockups.htm
i bet this lot above didnt have trouble 'holding their lunch down' and they are a bit faster than a 55mph pro kart!

and on a pro kart the tyres are so hard that even if u skidded them 5 times on the same spot i doubt u could feel it...



I love the idea of removing F9, its simply not possible to tell the temps from computer as u drive. i bet even the mechs in F1 cant tell the tyre temps. When teams do tyre testing, they have a big stick with heat sensors on that goes over the tyre.

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I assume that you felt a vibration through your steering that gets faster with increasing speed

Well i've only done two race stints (~1hr each) and a practice session with a flatspot so i'm hardly experienced in the matter, and yes karts have direct link steering so it may be different for cars - i'm just not prepared to trash tyres for experimentation! From recollection I dont think it got any better or worse at different speeds though, it was just on like one of those Gillette razors with the button held down. EDIT: Perhaps at very low speed, but the speed of racing ensured that the vibration was well and truly in it's pitch range.

In FF terms I dont think it would need to be strong, for example I didnt feel that my hands where being controlled by the vibration of the wheel, but certainly holding the wheel steady was a lot more work. A USB vibrator build into the chair would also be a good simulation aid, as the chasis vibration was the most extreme part and is what made me feel so sick driving it.

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A USB vibrator build into the chair would also be a good simulation aid

erm, excuse me?

you should of seen that coming becky...

lol dont worry i jus couldnt help makin a comment on it.

Tire temperature can be monitored realtime. See Gimpster's post.
I've seen raceday MGP or AMA bikes fitted with laser thermometers pointed at the tires.

Orly? But do you fit them in to your UF?

to say u can get flatspots on karts is rediculous

Blackout: why not? You're in a club that meets 24/7 on tens of different track configurations, totaling 2,120,866 laps from all its members. Considering the amount of fuel and tires used, yeah, it's a worthwhile expense.

While I agree it's not much use in practice, I don't see why it should be altogether forbidden either.

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to say u can get flatspots on karts is rediculous

Not out of habbit no, thank god. It can happen though, as I mentioned previously I think the most likely cause was actually my brother's insistence on hand scrubbing the tyres, rather than during an actual lock up. Different cause, same effect.

I'm not that familiar with "your" kart models.
I've only seen and used these low end "free-time" 3, 5, 7bhp karts.
But these have rear brakes only, may be different from the karts you use.

regards