ai need some kind of spatial awareness, and a crash course in braking zones. the f1 car when you are racing against them, you will pass one on the straight, but if they snag your draft, they stay on your tail. because of their lack of braking skills and a failure to realize that they're front wing's downforce is being relieved by my rear wings downforce, they attempt early braking, lock them straight up and basically punt me, haven't even attempted corner entry on the wheel yet. basically with what the ai already has, give them smoother braking with abs active to have some advantage. then give them a two forms of spatial awareness, one for when running side by side then one for cars closing from behind. last they need some type of downforce intelligence, and greater understanding at least. that is all.
Ai
(15 posts, started )
Ai
#2
- CodeLyoko1
I this is suggestes multiple times already, but I don't really think ai is what this sim needs atm. the online players are much more active on the forums and on the servers. Already a lot of people stopped playing this because of the lack of content. if they want them back, they have to put out either s3, or the scirocco. Maybe after that they can update the AI system.
the one problem with ai systems is, is that they are still computers driving. I haven't seen any game and definatly not a simulator where the ai is good. that's because AI in racing games is the hardest to program, unlike fps games.
the one problem with ai systems is, is that they are still computers driving. I haven't seen any game and definatly not a simulator where the ai is good. that's because AI in racing games is the hardest to program, unlike fps games.
^ This is the main reason why the AI sucks. Simulators tend to focus on the sim itself, not AI. And having said that I think AI fits well for beginners to improve their driving skills.
Not to add what's been said, but I think you're also looking at one car and one track. I ran an offline over the summer with the fo8 and can confirm a lot of what you said. But there's also something's you forget. If you race on Kyoto National, you'll actually find that the AI's dive bomb a turn right before getting onto the oval. That same turn, but on Kyoto Nat- Reverse, they do the exact same thing. But so far, its the only part I can find where the Ai's do something realistic (human).
If they decide on using a better AI system, then I think they also need to fix their racing lines. For "Beginner" and such, I think the racing lines are just right, but on "Pro" I think there needs to be a new set on a few tracks, & the oprion of a "Rolling Start". A great example would be Blackwood- Rallycross. Online, we know who's new by what racing line they use on the banked U-Turn and at the end of the backstretch. I think LfS could use their knowledge of to improve this, but only if they have/want to.
Along with the top, I there's a few "Custom" tracks that should be made Standard. Blackwood- Historic, South City- Oval, Fern Bay- Classic & Oval, Kyoto- Internal National, Extended GPs, Aston- Bannana Route. Along with these few, I personally wouldn't mind seeing every destination also having at least 1 Rallycross track. (Even South City could have one somewhere.
This is more of a wish list, but its definitely not impossible I'm sure. I'm not going to go on and on that this needs to be done now, because it doesn't. Things such as "Rolling Start" and new racing lines would take time and we need to respect the creators for giving us what we have and improving it to this point. I'm not aware of what's next, but I do wish to know. Until then, the AI's are okay and greatly done.
If they decide on using a better AI system, then I think they also need to fix their racing lines. For "Beginner" and such, I think the racing lines are just right, but on "Pro" I think there needs to be a new set on a few tracks, & the oprion of a "Rolling Start". A great example would be Blackwood- Rallycross. Online, we know who's new by what racing line they use on the banked U-Turn and at the end of the backstretch. I think LfS could use their knowledge of to improve this, but only if they have/want to.
Along with the top, I there's a few "Custom" tracks that should be made Standard. Blackwood- Historic, South City- Oval, Fern Bay- Classic & Oval, Kyoto- Internal National, Extended GPs, Aston- Bannana Route. Along with these few, I personally wouldn't mind seeing every destination also having at least 1 Rallycross track. (Even South City could have one somewhere.
This is more of a wish list, but its definitely not impossible I'm sure. I'm not going to go on and on that this needs to be done now, because it doesn't. Things such as "Rolling Start" and new racing lines would take time and we need to respect the creators for giving us what we have and improving it to this point. I'm not aware of what's next, but I do wish to know. Until then, the AI's are okay and greatly done.
maybe it's just me but it seems the AI race on a line made to let you pass.
(CSU1)
DELETED
by CSU1
#6
- CodeLyoko1
AI drives on a given path and react only when there is a car besides them. that's why you wont see AI overtake each other
Unless at Ky-National, Code's right. And even then, it would have to be an endurance race where slow cars hold up the fast ones for serious overtaking.
So much misguided AI hatred
I know this thread is a few months old, but this is what I was searching for. I agree, AI should get some small easy tweaks. It would generate more sales, with less developer work, than most of the requests I see on the forum.
" the online players are much more active on the forums and on the servers."
Yes, the online players are more active online. No surprise. i know several people who play LFS off-line. None that race online (LAN only). Playing with random humans is just not convenient. I guarantee that offline racers outnumber online.... there is no reason for them to post here.
Offline is king. No idiots signing in and causing wreaks, and no elitist jerks heckling noobs rather than trying to teach them. One can race any track, at any difficulty, any time, with a full grid.
" that's why you wont see AI overtake each other "
AI overtake each other constantly. Set them up with varied setups.
The AI are missing 3 things that would make the single player experience in LFS better than anything out there and put LFS as the king for single player simulation racing.
First, if the AI setups could have a slight randomization to them, you would see them pass and make moves constantly. This is currently a huge pain.
Second, the AI do need some improved spatial awareness. They seem to sense stopped cars fine, but they often just drive "through" moving cars.
Third, the 3-cars per client is outdated and dumb. The limit keeps small leagues (that use AI to fill the grid) from using LFS. If that limit was raised, I personally know 3 people that would buy S2 licenses. Judging from forum searches, there are others.
" the online players are much more active on the forums and on the servers."
Yes, the online players are more active online. No surprise. i know several people who play LFS off-line. None that race online (LAN only). Playing with random humans is just not convenient. I guarantee that offline racers outnumber online.... there is no reason for them to post here.
Offline is king. No idiots signing in and causing wreaks, and no elitist jerks heckling noobs rather than trying to teach them. One can race any track, at any difficulty, any time, with a full grid.
" that's why you wont see AI overtake each other "
AI overtake each other constantly. Set them up with varied setups.
The AI are missing 3 things that would make the single player experience in LFS better than anything out there and put LFS as the king for single player simulation racing.
First, if the AI setups could have a slight randomization to them, you would see them pass and make moves constantly. This is currently a huge pain.
Second, the AI do need some improved spatial awareness. They seem to sense stopped cars fine, but they often just drive "through" moving cars.
Third, the 3-cars per client is outdated and dumb. The limit keeps small leagues (that use AI to fill the grid) from using LFS. If that limit was raised, I personally know 3 people that would buy S2 licenses. Judging from forum searches, there are others.
#9
- CodeLyoko1
show me a video of that. maybe with huge differences there might be an overtake here and there, but def not constantly.
Well you've got to pick the right track-setup combination too, that's the problem. Cause I've done Offline Leagues, and sometimes it gets interesting, sometimes not.
well i tried dozens of different ai combinations over the years, with mixed cars, mixed classes and mixed setups but the ai got worse since they are not learning over time any longer.
in a mixed field with slower cars at the front they will crash even before corner one but then will race without overtaking till the end and some of them will crash while pitting. and they seem to be aware of the other ai, but not of the human player as they crash in the breakzones of nearly each corner.
the ai of the older lfs versions was a bit better, but now they are just good to be driving obstacles.
in the time before lfs scawen worked on a racing game "total immersion racing" wich had a very inovative ai system at the time. those ai drivers had some sort of "personality" and if you pushed on them, some got frightened and drove more defensive form that point in time and some got more aggressive and tried to attack you in the next corners.
now i do not know how much of that is intellectual property of the studio that made "total immersion racing" but the concepts and the behaviour of that ai was really good.
lfs might be a online racing simulator, but having a good ai can be nice for some people using them for training purposes or to fill up a racing field with only a few human players. also it is nice for those people living in the wrong timezones so they struggle to find populated servers.
updating the ai is definately needed, but it should be low in priority and may be done after the tire physics, because the ai also depends on that physics, and after a content update and maybe even after a day/night/weather update because all those updates are of more use to the average player.
peace, mo
in a mixed field with slower cars at the front they will crash even before corner one but then will race without overtaking till the end and some of them will crash while pitting. and they seem to be aware of the other ai, but not of the human player as they crash in the breakzones of nearly each corner.
the ai of the older lfs versions was a bit better, but now they are just good to be driving obstacles.
in the time before lfs scawen worked on a racing game "total immersion racing" wich had a very inovative ai system at the time. those ai drivers had some sort of "personality" and if you pushed on them, some got frightened and drove more defensive form that point in time and some got more aggressive and tried to attack you in the next corners.
now i do not know how much of that is intellectual property of the studio that made "total immersion racing" but the concepts and the behaviour of that ai was really good.
lfs might be a online racing simulator, but having a good ai can be nice for some people using them for training purposes or to fill up a racing field with only a few human players. also it is nice for those people living in the wrong timezones so they struggle to find populated servers.
updating the ai is definately needed, but it should be low in priority and may be done after the tire physics, because the ai also depends on that physics, and after a content update and maybe even after a day/night/weather update because all those updates are of more use to the average player.
peace, mo
I've a few videos myself which show some online AI overtakes
Forgive me if the quality of the video is dreadful:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iVm0_xLwGQ
Check:
0:30-0:38
1:41-2:00
2:36-2:51
2:55-3:16
3:30-3:43
Also this video 1:13-1:16, this was for 1st place on the final lap:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPuDsYGzH3s
...There's still more replays in my folder which have a considerable amount of AI overtaking but I think this is enough for now.
Edit: A quick note, the cars in the video are running different setups, but not using intake restrictions to slow them down a lot. The differences in their lap times usually have a second or two difference as a maximum.
Best promo ever!
on any track other than kyoto national
Those were all on GP, and I think I have other interesting overtakes on other tracks though I'll need to look.
Ai
(15 posts, started )
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