dear scavier,

a few years ago you used to surprise the community with nice patches for the holidays so we got something new and exciting to play with.

please revive that tradition now that you are back on the developing path.

the community is so hungry for just something, that we will be glad to recieve anything new, even if it is not really new, like one of the cars or tracks that are floating in limbo for so long now.

if all that is too much work, then think about the option of mirrored tracks, so we have some new corners in opposite directions to drive on.

at one time you complained that the top treads in the forum, talking about lack of content or unreleased cars, are causing a bad reputation for lfs, because they scare new racers off.
so don´t you think any new release of something new for every racer, not just for the oculus early adopters, will cause a big splash of positve momentum for the community and for lfs over all?

think about a main forum where the top treads are praising your work again instead of moaning and bickering because of the awful long waiting time?
many players are just asking "are we there yet?", so if we "are not there yet" these people need something positive to do while waiting.

thank you so much for creating the most convincing racing simulator, but please do something against this slow degradiation of the community.

:eclipsee_

peace, mo

Not going to happen. Maybe another test patch with Oculus Rift support, that's all.

Sadly the only response reasonable since early 2009 is; if only.

its getting boring now people wishing for S3 tomorrow,go play with some easter bunny's :static:

who needs s3 anyway , it will be the same only with another car and track, enjoy what we have :]

Quote from shimon-ifraimov :

who needs s3 anyway , it will be the same only with another car and track, enjoy what we have :]

everybody needs S3...

Quote from BorislavB :

everybody needs S3...

lets make a poll

Quote from shimon-ifraimov :

lets make a poll

Some people who don't want S3 don't even bother being around the forums anymore, so the poll would be quite biased I'd say.

For new patch I wouldn't expect anything more new than super-duper feature like Antialiasing on alpha textures or better fog drawing performance (hey, we're on DX9!)

Quote from shimon-ifraimov :

lets make a poll

i know the answer without poll... if you want you can make

Quote from Flame CZE :

Some people who don't want S3 don't even bother being around the forums anymore, so the poll would be quite biased I'd say.

Depends on the Poll.
Like instead of that, have one that asks how many people will STILL be whining for new content after AFTER S3 comes out

Nothing_will_happen

Yeah... it's been a month since a test patch.
If I was a gambling man, I'd bet that LFS is going to see some good updates this year. I'd be surprised if they substantially change the online situation, however.

What I don't understand is: how did Scawen create some of the best (if not the best) tyre physics so far years ago in what must of been a fairly short amount of time but yet cannot seem to get to a point where they are better in most situations than the first time after years of coding and experimenting. I know it must be the most difficult thing to code but with time you gain experience and so he must be able to release something that is better than the old physics but not 100% perfect.

Once this has been done then if the enthusiasm is still there all the fun stuff can happen, like adding new features and content.

I do believe this will happen but probably not this year.

The way the tyres move now especially in slo-mo replays is still beyond anything else available. Let's hope Scawen makes some good progress soon and can get to a state that can be released to the public.

Quote from Alric :

What I don't understand is: how did Scawen create some of the best (if not the best) tyre physics so far years ago in what must of been a fairly short amount of time but yet cannot seem to get to a point where they are better in most situations than the first time after years of coding and experimenting. I know it must be the most difficult thing to code but with time you gain experience and so he must be able to release something that is better than the old physics but not 100% perfect.

Once this has been done then if the enthusiasm is still there all the fun stuff can happen, like adding new features and content.

I do believe this will happen but probably not this year.

The way the tyres move now especially in slo-mo replays is still beyond anything else available. Let's hope Scawen makes some good progress soon and can get to a state that can be released to the public.

good post. Respect, some members need to read this and try to understand the work thats involved and appreciate what you have now as its a very good sim. S3 will be here.When????????? So enjoy what u have till it comes.

if s3 come is good, if s3 not come is good too

Quote from Alric :

... and so he must be able to release something that is better than the old physics but not 100% perfect.

Scawen is a perfectionist. There's zero chance it will be released before he thinks it's 100% done. And it doesn't help that he seems to be a very stubborn fella too.
Perfectionism brought life to this sim - but it was also the cause of its death.

LFS is dead! long live LFS!

Quote from wildstyle :

Scawen is a perfectionist. There's zero chance it will be released before he thinks it's 100% done. And it doesn't help that he seems to be a very stubborn fella too.
Perfectionism brought life to this sim - but it was also the cause of its death.

I agree with you totally. It's so frustrating though, lfs could be sooooo much better. I do believe something will come because it would be a sorry state if Scawen worked on and off on tyre physics for 5 years and never released anything. However, I do think we may be some years off. Why Eric won't release new tracks though I just don't get. The only thing I can think of is holding them back for a big 'S3' release. With the oculus rift support lfs will still be in front once it starts to add more features & content.

Fingers crossed that's sooner rather than later!

Quote from wildstyle :

Scawen is a perfectionist. There's zero chance it will be released before he thinks it's 100% done. And it doesn't help that he seems to be a very stubborn fella too.
Perfectionism brought life to this sim - but it was also the cause of its death.

he just didnt work on it. get over it.

perfect simulation will never ever exist.

maybe he wanted to work on it, but then something happened, something that was impossible to fix within the current build of lfs. afterwards, he knew what he was supposed to do (re-coding lfs physics from scratch) but he didnt, he couldnt, he was compelled to keep it that way.

@Alric tyres in lfs are nowhere near best or among the best really. one easy glitch would be: they heat up too quickly, cool down too slow. get a tyre to 200 centigrade and just stop. while in real life it'd cool down to 80-90 in probably 40-60 sec, in lfs you need around 10 minutes. yes you read it right. even scirocco had to be postponed and new tyre model didnt really work out. how come one of the best tyre simulation can't make the car handle as good as the real one?

all of the wrs are done with oversteering, in racing oversteering mostly will cost you time. in lfs it helps you get quicker time. another result of it having wrong physics.

tyre cools down quicker once the rubber gets thinner?!

... what

tyre almost keeps the same traction as the brand new until it just have no more rubber. then it just pops.


its also weird in lfs that formula cars have handbrake. and actually using it helps you create oversteer sometimes even without locking the rear wheels! and you get quicker. i'd suggest the removal of that but i just see that he is not really likely to do it so i didnt.


finally, do not ever fool yourself into thinking that lfs has the best physics or even close now. looking at your registration date, its 2003. its been 11 years. such a long time that its not wrong to say this sim has become the reality for you. even though other sims are far more realistic, it might not feel right for you cause you rate them according to their similarity to lfs.

lfs is simple, easy to understand and good. thats what gets you. realism wise its "now" far behind.

Quote from S.E.T.H :

all of the wrs are done with oversteering, in racing oversteering mostly will cost you time. in lfs it helps you get quicker time. another result of it having wrong physics.


tyre almost keeps the same traction as the brand new until it just have no more rubber. then it just pops.

Quote from S.E.T.H :

Alotta Blahblah

Dude,you seem to be very smart,so why don't you create better sim with better physics,without force mode,with blackjack and hookers?

Quote from Eclipsed :

Dude,you seem to be very smart,so why don't you create better sim with better physics,without force mode,with blackjack and hookers?

I don't think he was saying he could do a better job. Just saying that while the tyre model is good, it's nowhere near perfect, so the very clever guy who made it in the first place (Scawen) should try and continue improving it. Unless Scawen thought the effort wasn't worth it and best leave the sim in the state as it was since it brought enough income to sustain them the last few years --> no real incentive to get back on the treadmill. But now when the money supply is a bit thinner Scawen felt the need to "whip out a reasonable tyre model" to revitalize the sim once again. I do wish him well on the job, I just wish he would have continued on this track five years earlier.

@S.E.T.H. your bashing of the LFS tire model is purely opinion.

you said it yourself, there will never be a perfect simulation of reality, so what do we do then? Scawen came up with something to allow us to race online. i would argue what makes the tire model so good is how organic it is. the same tire model applies to all cars, all tire sizes, all surfaces, and reacts well in all situations.

just to give an example, i did a 180 spin on asphalt at 5% throttle in a miata in iracing (at 2mph). it's only my opinion, but i don't like a physics model that has some situations where completely impossible things happen. like in netkar pro when you slide 500m across sand at low speeds.

LFS is made to do one thing and does it really great. you can bump against other people online and if you lose control of the car you never feel like it wasn't your fault. lag spikes are the exception but it's a problem impossible to resolve with the communication delays we have.

about your point that LFS has become our reality and we compare everything against it. maybe you have too little LFS experience to give it credit? how many hours have you spent trying to make a setup that suits your style of driving? can that even be done in other sims, or are their suspension calculations all based on one example of a car, with one particular setup, meant to be driven in one particular style?

personally i've tried colin mcrae rally 1 and 2, 1nsane, Screamer 4x4, GP3, GPL, iracing, rfactor, netkar pro, lfs and a lot more that are too far from simulation to count. nothing else feels so much like driving, so i choose to drive that mostly and because of that i'm unable to tell other tire simulations are better?

no, it's your definition of what makes a tire simulation good. yes, agreed the tires heat up too fast and cool off too slow. what about iracing has no flatspots? the tire is the same average temperature on all points. what about rfactor... well never mind. what about netkar where the tires screech at 0.5 mph?

i ask you a question: what is it about the lfs tire model that stops you from having a good race against other people? that is what its design priorities were for.

Quote from CarlLefrancois :

i ask you a question: what is it about the lfs tire model that stops you from having a good race against other people? that is what its design priorities were for.

you can hear the tire screech in lfs at 0.5 mph too, probably just need a full lock. rfactor and netkar has superior tyre model as you know. surprised you never mentioned AC there. it will be among the best if not the best. there cant be perfect simulation but some are closer to reality than the other.

its not about whether i have fun or not, its just wrong in lfs and the guy saying something about perfectionism just gave me an itch. he just doesnt want to accept the simple and obvious truth. lfs is just not close to reality (at least anymore) and its not realism what makes lfs good, its something else; menus, server listing, chatting in server, being able to change almost every single option while IN the car, voting, lfsworld, hotlap system, having your username but then choosing a nick that you like with all that colorful crap.. its good that way. especially MP makes you feel "free" but not physics.

for me having a good race doesnt determine the realism level of the sim, you can have good races in nfs too. i think what stops people (not just me) from playing something is both it falling behind the time and the feeling that it is left out. you see i didnt feel like suggesting removal of handbrake in formula cars, or maybe to improve online experience increasing that packets per limit thing from 6 to 15 or 20 etc.