AutoCross?

Quote from giannhsgr1 :

you cant unless you want to get a darwin award
main reason is that you actually care about your life in a track than in lfs..

then that comes down to confidence in ones driving,its obviously a factor in determining if someone is faster or not but its cannot be the main factor.

Quote from bishtop :

then that comes down to confidence in ones driving,its obviously a factor in determining if someone is faster or not but its cannot be the main factor.

no its about having confidence in others driving expirience.. you dont want to be near maldonado for example..

Quote from giannhsgr1 :

no its about having confidence in others driving expirience.. you dont want to be near maldonado for example..

In your example...I suggest letting him pass and crash on his own (or into someone else ahead of you).

Quote from bishtop :

people may believe one or the other is realistic because they can drive good/fast laptimes, i dont think i could drive as well in real life on a track than i have done in lfs or iracing

This.

At the end of the day, we are all only using the steering wheel to feel the car when in reality you need your bottom also for it.

Quote from MoMo92i :

This.

At the end of the day, we are all only using the steering wheel to feel the car when in reality you need your bottom also for it.

That's a little contradictory to the quote you are agreeing with.
I think it's clear that top sim racers with nothing but FFB and their eyes/ears are at the limit in their respective sims, and I see no reason why perfect physics would alter that.

Not related to your post, but I also think the "irl your life is on the line" argument for people being slower generally doesn't hold much water. No F1 driver's qualifying time is affected by fear for their life. Damaging the car/failure to do their job is probably of much greater concern than what might happen to them if their brakes failed at the next 200mph braking zone. Once you get to the competitive end of the spectrum, fear doesn't come in to it. Anybody with that fear clearly won't get anywhere near that level.
If Nordschleife lap records could be improved, then magical infinite free resets and damage repair to the machinery would improve them. Magical invulnerability for the driver with the same machinery/time/cost limitations definitely wouldn't.

Quote from MoMo92i :

This.

At the end of the day, we are all only using the steering wheel to feel the car when in reality you need your bottom also for it.

you use your ass to navigate? you know that this is a massive lie eh? the whole point of humans having ears is to be able to sense and counteract the forces if your ass was suppose to do that job i cant imagine what pornstars must feel after sex..

Quote from Fordman :

Now I usually find the usual crowd ( Nilex, B2 Storm, Stiggy, Camelx ) and I know I am in for hiding

That's about the end of it, IMHO. I'm always amazed how little extra speed the fastest guys carry around corners than the almost-as-fast, but it's that last little bit of speed that takes the skill.

The only other thing I can think of is the immersion. Quite frankly I don't know how anyone can drive a car with the head movement turned off and a gamey FOV. Stick Nilex in a real car, in the back seat and with his helmet bolted to the roll cage and see how fast he drives then

Quote from Racon :

Stick Nilex in a real car, in the back seat and with his helmet bolted to the roll cage and see how fast he drives then

Haha...just putting him in a real car would be enough!
"How on earth do you steer this thing....where do I plug the mouse in?"

Sorry Nil just had to.

I didin't mean Nilex specifically, for the record

Quote from giannhsgr1 :

you use your ass to navigate? you know that this is a massive lie eh? the whole point of humans having ears is to be able to sense and counteract the forces if your ass was suppose to do that job i cant imagine what pornstars must feel after sex..

I wouldn't be able to drive a car in real life if it wasn't for my butt.

To save the thread, I have removed all the posts that were made after this point.

Please can we try to stay on topic, not make annoying posts that generate post reports that we have to deal with, not start insulting each other and so on?

Let's keep the forum a place where visitors might think that intelligent discussion takes place, not a hell hole full of weirdos.

Quote from Racon :

...Stick Nilex in a real car...

Nilex doesn't even have a driving licence AFAIK

Quote from Scawen :

To save the thread, I have removed all the posts that were made after this point.

Please can we try to stay on topic, not make annoying posts that generate post reports that we have to deal with, not start insulting each other and so on?

Let's keep the forum a place where visitors might think that intelligent discussion takes place, not a hell hole full of weirdos.

I agree Scawen, you try to start an honest discussion and it turns in to flame wars....

I know I started this thread, as I just wanted to see what other LFS people think, but I backed off due to all the "you said this" you said that" and non factional information.

LFS physics is x amount of years old now, so like I originally asked, is this now being exploited with keyboard/mouse users. I have nothing against mouse and keyboard users, but if this is a sim, surely if you have a wheel, pedals, clutch etc etc, you should be faster ( if you know the tracks, that helps )

Regards

Fordie

Quote from englishlord :

Nilex has 191.6 thousand racing miles, you have 40 thousand. I would imagine this would have more of a difference to your respective pace than the difference between the controllers you use with the same setup.

absolute truth

Quote from Fordman :

I agree Scawen, you try to start an honest discussion and it turns in to flame wars....

I know I started this thread, as I just wanted to see what other LFS people think, but I backed off due to all the "you said this" you said that" and non factional information.

LFS physics is x amount of years old now, so like I originally asked, is this now being exploited with keyboard/mouse users. I have nothing against mouse and keyboard users, but if this is a sim, surely if you have a wheel, pedals, clutch etc etc, you should be faster ( if you know the tracks, that helps )

Regards

Fordie

Why would input method matter? If you're able to input the best inputs to the car (steering angle, pedal position) with a keyboard, you should be the fastest. Not penalized because you're not using a wheel.

Quote from englishlord :

Nilex has 191.6 thousand racing miles, you have 40 thousand. I would imagine this would have more of a difference to your respective pace than the difference between the controllers you use with the same setup.

I have 316 187.217 racing miles and I'm slow as shit. Plateaus happen at different points for different people, and skill/talent is a factor.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

Why would input method matter? If you're able to input the best inputs to the car (steering angle, pedal position) with a keyboard, you should be the fastest. Not penalized because you're not using a wheel.

I think that is the whole point of the thread. Should it be possible to be faster using wheel/kb/mouse?
Disregarding the driver for a moment (and as an example,) then we know that the mouse has the potential to turn the steering faster than wheel...and can also be precise like the wheel.
Making the peripheral used perform equally is an impossible task (even I can see that)...so if you had to choose which peripheral to favour in a driving simulator then which would you opt for?

Quote from DANIEL-CRO :

Nilex doesn't even have a driving licence AFAIK

Now you are ringing a bell in my memory bank.
Come on Nil....I know you can contribute in here.

Quote from Anthoop :

then we know that the mouse has the potential to turn the steering faster than wheel...and can also be precise like the wheel.

How?

You make mouse sensitivity low you get precise but slow movement. You set it high and it's the other way around. This applies to any controller. What black magic makes mouse control capable of both at the same time?

Mouse acceleration! (Enhance pointer precision) by default its on.

Try moving pointer slowly from left edge to right edge and capture how much you move mouse physically on your desk. Using my mouse and settings if I do it really slowly its over 20 cm. But if I do it faster (much faster) its <3 cm.

Well, that makes sense.

But wheel can be non-linear too, if you really want it to be and is willing to give up absolute positioning (I'm not). Just add a centering button to control drift and avoid hitting lock.

No controller will ever make your car go faster (as in increase its top speed). It can make your driving easier or harder, consistent or less consistent, depending on what you use to drive with and how comfortable you are with it. I always get the impression reading this kind of posts where it is implied that one controller is "faster" so i thought it might me worth to mention this.

I haven't responded because i don't understand Fordman's question. Physics and setup options are same for everybody so there can't be talk of an exploit.

I could only guess why he is slow and why his wheel is turning. Maybe because it's a hard game that takes time and effort to understand game mechanics (in my case), or wheel setting are badly setup, etc. As for the wheel turning itself, i would say it is a combination of very high, soft oval-ish setup and engine crankshaft rotation causing enough of a force to cause micro wobbling of a stationary car and send Logitech drivers into confusion. Who knows.

Mouse is inferior to wheel in LFS in every way, assuming both are working as marketed. This includes using 720° degrees of wheel rotation. But I'm saving that for when it counts.

Quote from Nilex :

No controller will ever make your car go faster.... I always get the impression reading this kind of posts where it is implied that one controller is "faster" so i thought it might me worth to mention this.

I haven't responded because i don't understand Fordman's question....

Of course the peripheral used will not make the car go faster...per se...but by taking a corner better or getting on the throttle earlier you will reach a higher top speed on the straight (or higher top speed earlier)...I think "faster" is a general term for a better lap time.

I think Fordman was mainly miffed that someone with a mouse was better/faster/had more experience...

Quote from Nilex :

Mouse is inferior to wheel in LFS in every way, assuming both are working as marketed. This includes using 720° degrees of wheel rotation. But I'm saving that for when it counts.

You know I disagree...some turns/cars then the mouse will beat any wheeler...put pedals with the mouse and I could see a world beater....

Quote from Anthoop :

You know I disagree...some turns/cars then the mouse will beat any wheeler...put pedals with the mouse and I could see a world beater....

so you are saying that the force feedback you get from the wheel has no help?

and also with mouse you have to keep an eye on the virtual wheel in the screen to know where you are going. with a wheel you can easily focus on the road.

fastest way around a track is definitely a good set up wheel set.

Quote from S.E.T.H :

and also with mouse you have to keep an eye on the virtual wheel in the screen

Absolutely not. I'm not a mouse drive but I have tried it. You really don't need to watch your virtual wheel because you can sense how much you're turning with your eyes (and watching how your car behaves, not your virtual wheel).