Quote from Forbin :

Again, false equivalence.

No, but maybe there is misunderstanding. The original statement implied that stealing information is not as bad as stealing material things "because you still have the information." These examples show why that is an oversimplification.

Quote :

You could go up to someone's bike and start checking it out and the rider may even tell you everything about it. They know if you beat them, you're simply a better rider.

What if somebody politely tells you something like: "Please stop snooping around in my garage, we are trying something new blabla sorry. Maybe we can talk after the race".
What would he think of you if you still continued to creep around?
It is also a different situation if you ask someone for information or if you spy on them. The end result is basically the same but from social point of view it is very different. Same situation with LFS setups.

Quote from Gutholz :

What if somebody politely tells you something like: "Please stop snooping around in my garage, we are trying something new blabla sorry. Maybe we can talk after the race".

I've honestly never heard anyone say that. Everyone is far too friendly and welcoming to say such a thing.

Sim racing: srs bsns.

I have also never seen anyone say that. (but if someone did then I would respect it)
Which makes it so strange: on one side everybody is willing to share setups/advice but on other hand some people still think they need to cheat/steal

Everyone is also really friendly in professional motorsport but nobody will even tell you any hint on their setup.

Quote from Forbin :

I beg to differ.





You're both ignoring how personal setups are.

If someone beats you on track, regardless of whether they have your setup or not, regardless of whether you have their setup or not, you're simply not as good on track as them. Deal with it.

Setup building is just as important as racing. If setups were so trivial, why don't you build YOUR OWN setup and race me. If you can still beat me, then you are a better racer. If you can't, then you aren't.

Quote from bishtop :

lol,you have me in stiches with laughter, Your the one living in bubble,so welcome to the big wide world. Its a game where everyday there is software piracy and and in the real world theres wars happening and people starving and other actual serious things so please dont expect me to see such things as important or of value

This argument is pretty irrelevant. In the real world, there's rape and murder. Just because it is happening doesn't make it right. Maybe you're the type of guy who jumps off a building because everyone else is and wants to fit in.

Quote from GenesisX :

Setup building is just as important as racing. If setups were so trivial, why don't you build YOUR OWN setup and race me. If you can still beat me, then you are a better racer. If you can't, then you aren't.

Every set I used was always built by me. At some point I may have obtained a base set from another user but most became heavily modified to suit my own unique tastes. People, particularly teammates, commented that my sets, namely for the FO8, were great for threshold braking but not so much for trail braking, as was my style. This didn't quite suit others, so they modified it. Great racing was had.

Setup building is important in that it helps the driver change the car's behavior to suit their own personal style. You can't be as fast if the setup does not suit you. A fast driver's setup is not a panacea. It will not make you faster unless it suits you better than your current setup.

Quote from MoMo92i :

Everyone is also really friendly in professional motorsport but nobody will even tell you any hint on their setup.

And here you have it from a guy who's actually worked on a professional racing team.

I see your point in your last sentence, although I still don't approve your opinion on setup stealing. As if you were around in LFS for the last couple years, you would know that the competitive scene is dominated by endurance, where 3-4 people use the same setups and become much more generic, than suiting a single person's taste, hence making it a lot "better" target for setup stealing. How do you want to personalize a setup made for 3 or more people? It's not really achieveable. It's just how the car handles a one hour stint, how well the setup manages the tires along with you and how fast you can go while doing all that.

You also rant on how people make bad equaliences with card games and such, but you really do the same by trying to compare club racing and professional racing.

Quote from Kristi :

I see your point in your last sentence, although I still don't approve your opinion on setup stealing. As if you were around in LFS for the last couple years, you would know that the competitive scene is dominated by endurance, where 3-4 people use the same setups and become much more generic, than suiting a single person's taste, hence making it a lot "better" target for setup stealing. How do you want to personalize a setup made for 3 or more people? It's not really achieveable. It's just how the car handles a one hour stint, how well the setup manages the tires along with you and how fast you can go while doing all that.

You also rant on how people make bad equaliences with card games and such, but you really do the same by trying to compare club racing and professional racing.

the thing is that a setup that is good for wont mean its going to be good for the next person. IRL if 2 racers have the same cars would that mean they both will cross the finish line together, no as its down to the drivers capabilities

Quote from bishtop :

the thing is that a setup that is good for wont mean its going to be good for the next person. IRL if 2 racers have the same cars would that mean they both will cross the finish line together, no as its down to the drivers capabilities

But how is all that related to my theory about endurance and driver swaps affecting how setups are built?

Quote from GenesisX :

This argument is pretty irrelevant. In the real world, there's rape and murder. Just because it is happening doesn't make it right. Maybe you're the type of guy who jumps off a building because everyone else is and wants to fit in.

lol, where did i say that if something happens in real world its right ? , what i said is that there are much more serious things in the real world and peoples lives so something like someone using your setup is petty compared to that

Having read this thread off and on since it was started, not sure it's really going anywhere now, and is probably unfeasible (programming wise) to address.

The problem with illicit/improper/immoral/unauthorised copying of setups is exactly same issue some people have with their original Autocross and track layouts and/or car and helmet skin designs being copied.

In a slightly different way, it could probably be argued that its the same for some InSim overlays (text, graphics, tables, etc), in that an idea can be implemented by someone, another programmer sees it and if they like it, make their own code to do something similar.

The correct answer to setup, layout and skin stealing is a moral one;
just because you know a way to get them, doesn't mean you have to.

In my view, its much better and satisfying to share.

LFS has given me a lot of fun and satisfaction over a lot of years, and part of that satisfaction has been due to a lot of people who have been willing to share things with me, whether that be ideas, advice, sets, layouts, driving tips , programming tips, as well as non LFS things, and also me being able to contribute a small insignificant part to the LFS experience too, whether that be my own sets, layouts and LFSLapper insim programming.

Quote from Kristi :

But how is all that related to my theory about endurance and driver swaps affecting how setups are built?

They alter there setups dependant on conditions and length of race ect, which they all do, what is it they actually change then when swap over , seat height ?? pedal position ?? alter stuff on the engine due to it being well run in (hot) mixture ect

At the end of the day, if you look irl - even if I don't take into account F1 as cars are clearly (not that much compared to few years ago) different - if you look in gp2, gp3, 3.5, FR 2.0 you will find out that teams pretty much have their drivers approximately around the same position if they have equal skills but not same driving style.

For example if you look at DAMS team in gp2, you have Palmer slightly faster than Richelmi but if Palmer starts on pole Richelmi isn't p22. If you look at ART also in gp2 you may have big pace difference in quali between Vandoorne and Izawa (Izawa is discovering all the european tracks and "european shit italian tyres") but if you look at race pace they are similar.

Then yes drivers drives differently, but a good car remains a good one and in real life it is still the driver that have to get his driving used to the car than the other way. Generally you have one/two step wing/roll bar/pitch difference between the two cars, something like that. No GP2 driver will win a race in Lazarus, but you have chance to win one if you are at Dams, Carlin, ART, Arden,...

Quote from MoMo92i :

At the end of the day, if you look irl - even if I don't take into account F1 as cars are clearly (not that much compared to few years ago) different - if you look in gp2, gp3, 3.5, FR 2.0 you will find out that teams pretty much have their drivers approximately around the same position if they have equal skills but not same driving style.

For example if you look at DAMS team in gp2, you have Palmer slightly faster than Richelmi but if Palmer starts on pole Richelmi isn't p22. If you look at ART also in gp2 you may have big pace difference in quali between Vandoorne and Izawa (Izawa is discovering all the european tracks and "european shit italian tyres") but if you look at race pace they are similar.

Then yes drivers drives differently, but a good car remains a good one and in real life it is still the driver that have to get his driving used to the car than the other way. Generally you have one/two step wing/roll bar/pitch difference between the two cars, something like that. No GP2 driver will win a race in Lazarus, but you have chance to win one if you are at Dams, Carlin, ART, Arden,...