Regardless, I'm sure they'd be better off investing their money into their game than suing someone on the internet for libel (nevermind libel would indicate that my words are false, which they're not ). Never mind that would give them a hell of a lot more bad publicity to be suing random people on the internet than it's worth.
True, who would want to make solicitors any richer, slightly off topic but some pillock at work signed off an invoice from a solicitors firm. They charged £24 to scan and e-mail a document, the same for replying to an e-mail and attaching requested information, it's no wonder they're so rich.
Your words are not however true, they are your opinion, you said so yourself
Well, the evidence is fairly clear to anyone who has access to pCARS. They sold it to all of us as a simulator, when it's quite obviously not and they have no intention to make it that way. They might say it, but when pressed to actually do something about it.. they chicken out and keep it the same.
It's just NFS: Shift 3. No matter how you slice it, that's what it will end up as. Simply because that's the lowest common denominator and that's the way they will make the most money. It's just a shame that they've convinced the masses to think that they're actually making a simulator and that people are eating the shit they're feeding.
Not a single fact in your opinion here. It's a shame you have decided you know what the future holds and call it fact...the evidence is of a game in development, one with a substantial amount of work still to do, firstly they haven't sold a single copy of a finished game to anyone, members have joined in crowd funded development. Their intention is still to make simulator, just because you don't think it is now doesn't make it a fact that it never will be. How can you say they've changed nothing, they completely restarted the tyre modelling from scratch because it wasn't going the way they hoped, and it's constantly changing, it's called development for a reason. It can't be NFS: Shift3 because EA own the licence and SMS decided to get away from publishers for the good of gamers.
Feeding shit...please grow up. I did try to keep this civil, there is no need for that. I realise you can hide behind the Internet when you want to call a reputable company a fraud because you are of little consequence to them, but do you have to resort to such childish and needless attacks. We were having a fairly adult discussion on the topic, clearly you've lost patience with that. That's t'internet for you. I was hoping to encourage some LFSer's to get involved and help out, but you just want to slag it off because you've made your mind up about it already.
Sadly you have decided you know what the future holds, based on nothing but your own opinion. Rather than try to help make it better, probably because someone didn't jump to it last time you posted about how shit you thought it was, you've decided it's always going to be as shit as you think it will be. None of which is based on fact just your opinion. What a depressing world it would be if we knew what was going to happen all the time.
You have to admit that in the last year they haven't really done anything particularly sim worthy. I know blowing leaves are great, but it would be nice if they took one car and made it behave properly. Just to show they know what they're doing...
Edit: Hmmm, maybe progress. Carcass heating... Might have to link my account to Steam soon.
First off, you're taking me a bit too literally. I'm not retarded enough to actually think that it will be called "NFS: Shift 3", but the development progression so far, it effectively is. I understand that SMS aren't connected to EA and they couldn't use the NFS trademark.
Thanks for pointing out that out for the 3 bloggers who posted "OMG NFS SHIFT 3!"
What's the point in bothering though? If you're developing a simulator, I'd expect the tyre physics to be fairly high on the priority list. After 3 years of development, they still exhibit basic flaws in dynamics. Yes they have a year, but I think they'll spend all of that time adding more cars and tracks because that's what sells to the masses.
The thing that I worry about "sims" like iRacing and pCARS is that mindless masses will get absorbed by the marketing materials calling them simulators, and then people will dismiss actual simulators like Assetto Corsa or LFS as being unrealistic because they don't feel like the aforementioned faux-sims.
Tristan, thank you, all I asked all along was for you guys to give it a chance. Don't expect it to be perfect, but it never will be unless people who know what they're doing get in there and test it. Sadly Dawes has closed the book on it. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts but it would be much better if you posted in the dedicated WMD thread, I can post a link if you want.
With respect Dawes who knows if the tech preview will be the same as the finished game in AC. It's bizarre you praise it to high heaven when there is so little to go on...I expect it to Be very good too, but I'm not retarded enough to pass judgement just yet.
First off, to say I've closed the book on it is inaccurate. I have it linked to my Steam account, it's installed and auto updating every chance it gets.
Well, it's really easy to look to history to get a fairly good impression on the direction that things will go. Kunos at least has a history of producing very good simulations, in fact NetKar Pro is arguably the best out there in terms of car physics (along side LFS).
I look at SMS's prodigy in creating "simulators". They have a few iterations of NFS Shift under their belt and there's a few staff members that worked on the GTR series. We all know how "sim" NFS Shift was, and the GTR series suffered some fairly obvious flaws in physics (like a lot of sims that seemed to come down the gMotor/ISI legacy chain ).
Particularly the "over the limit" simulation that a lot of simulators just plain don't do well. rFactor, and even iRacing have issues at high slip angles where there are "unrecoverable" slides (where they wouldn't actually be unrecoverable), and in some case the physics engine just craps its pants so bad that it does impossible behaviours.
You can see why I put a bit of "blind" faith into Assetto Corsa. NKP was brilliant, the Assetto Corsa Tech Preview was equally fantastic. I doubt Kunos has, in the span of a few years, forgotten how a car should feel and is instead creating a bullshit physics model.
The SMS guys have proven that all they're really good at is those "bullshit" physics models that make a piss-drunk bro feel like Sebastian Vettel (Ironically, those bro-gamers are also about as douchey as Vettel).
I'm glad to hear you are still testing pCars...there is a glimmer of hope in you after all.
I had a boss who quoted someone, can't remember who. The quote was;
If you always do what you always did, then you'll always get what you always got...
From this I took it that change is the only way forward, and trying something new the only way to get there. There is no ISI engine in pCars as far as I'm aware, and all previous games have been developed under publisher agreements and not always finished the way they wanted them to be.
So stop talking and get testing, you never know you might actually enjoy yourself.
I'm writing an article about the development structure of the Project CARS and I'm looking to speak to anyone who's invested in the game who'd be willing to briefly talk (via PM) about their experience with the CARS community and the game itself. Please send me a PM if you're interested!
I can tell you that the community aspect is rather weak, SMS have had a clear dev process and direction from the start and the community have had much weaker impact than I hoped for. I have to hand it to them though, it's a good business idea on there part and a good way to build revenue through the dev process. But in all honesty I feel far more like a paying beta tester/investor than a valued member of a community that can make a difference, because they knew the path they were taking all along.
I just wish they had abandoned the flawed Madness engine and built a new physics engine from scratch, or used another proven physics engine. Despite improvements with the tyre model and FFB the core physics still are Shift like and the car behaviour has the same issues; lack of front end grip, sluggish chassis response, somewhat floaty and light, inaccurate steering response and slippery sluggish tyres that lack bite on turn in and progression under throttle. The suspension movements are also unconvincing.
Where it perhaps lacks the most is that the car/tyres don't feel pinned to the road/track by the weight of the car, it doesn't feel planted like a real car or like the better sims do.
I had always felt scammed by pCARS. It was originally impressed upon me that it was going to be a proper simulator in terms of physics. But it seemed after they had attained funding, they went back to simply making another iteration of NFS Shift.
Members of this forum tried very early on to point out physics flaws to SMS, but they simply disregarded them.
Only reason I didn't refund my funding is because of the potential of making it back (plus more).
As an aside, I hate the gaming media coverage that pCARS gets as well. Various video game journalism equates the pretty screenshots with a top quality simulator, and people have actually fallen for that. It's terrible as it does a great disservice to real simulators like LFS and AC. It's so bad that people might actually think that pCARS is more realistic because of the flaws it has, which is patently untrue!
I just reinstalled it two weeks ago and the physics is still pants. I actually think Shift 2 with some mods was better....
The game looks awesome in still screenshoot, but when actually playing, the sound isn't as natural as AC (especially the transition between on/off throttle, on overun etc), and overall it looks more stiff and unnatural.
Don't see no point to buy it in full price at this moment.
Real life WEC racing drivers using PCars to prepare for real world events and posting videos as well as helping the Devs with the physics and tyre modelling. Physics are coming together now, I do hope people give this a fair crack rather than listening to the loud opinions cited as fact previously posted here.
I hope you all enjoy PCars it really is becoming something quite special.
I'll give it a go again soon. But as some people have claimed it to be "special" when it was a steaming pile of poo (albeit attractively rendered too, with good steam effects and bits of sweetcorn), I do confess that I worry it will still be poo, and the real life drivers either have no clue about sim racing (lack of g-forces etc) or if the fans are genuinely clueless about how cars go round corners.
Well call me clueless and give me a grin! And I like sweet corn. It would be a shame to not try different things and try to enjoy them though. All I want is for people to enjoy PCars, and I believe it merits a "sim" label. That is my opinion and my wish for sim racing world peace. I hope you like it Tristan but you'll forgive me if my world doesn't end if you don't won't you? I'm allowed to love it even if it doesn't meet someone else's high standards. Formula Gulf for open wheel and z4 for GT cars are the most developed I believe. Don't worry that it will be poo, just go try it . All you lose is an hour or so of your time, actually maybe more depending on the time it takes to update if you haven't played for some time.
You won't believe this but I actually know people who don't like Live for Speed...I know crazy right!
The posting of videos is nothing more than PR. It is utterly meaningless. And helping the developers with physics? Come on, do you really believe that?
It's not any better. I give it a shot every one in a while and it's still terrible. It still runs like ass even with dual 760GTX's, and the physics are still about on par with Gran Turismo.
They are catering to the console crowd as their target platform and demographic, with a driving model that represents this.
Ollie Webb helped with the BAC Mono handling because he is the BAC company's official development driver. Ben Collins and Nick Hamilton regularly post feedback on car handling and tyre behaviour to allow the devs to tune them. I believe what I see and read on the forums, which is the interaction between dev and driver. Rene Rast signed up to WMD as a Sim racing fan and with his latest YouTube video included his setup for people to try out. Maybe like all other WMD members (well the ones who can be bothered and actually get involved) he just wants to share his love of PCARS, SMS have stated he is not paid to do it. You say PR BS, yes it's good PR but I don't think it's BS.
). Never mind that would give them a hell of a lot more bad publicity to be suing random people on the internet than it's worth. 
