Quote from the_angry_angel :

I'm not admitting to anything. And you can't make me!!!111oneoneone

say what?

Quote from lalathegreat :

detonation as pinging as in when the mixtures ignites without the help of the spark plug so to speak.

Close. Pre-ignition is when the mixture ignites without the help of the spark plug. Detonation is when the mixture ahead of the flame front (perhaps supersonic) meets compression ignition combustion, and the result is massive shock waves, that can literally pluck metal from valves and piston crowns, and lead ultimately to hotspots in the engine.

Pre-ignition is when hotspots in the engine (which may or may not be caused by detonation (or pinking or knocking, however you want to call it) ignites the fuel before the spark plug. This is generally considered back, as not only does it mimic ignition advance (which exaggerates hotspots/detonation etc), it also causes valves to burn out, things to melt, oil to carbonise, and the engine to "run on". This is when even turning off the engine (in a carburetted car) will not stop the engine, and you have to some how let the engine cool before it will stop. Usually reducing the throttle will eventually do this, but not always. It then feels like a stuck wide open throttle, which I can assure you isn't a nice feeling.

yeah i would love it that the car can get to hot and the engine could blow up

Quote from tristancliffe :

Close. Pre-ignition is when the mixture ignites without the help of the spark plug. Detonation is when the mixture ahead of the flame front (perhaps supersonic) meets compression ignition combustion, and the result is massive shock waves, that can literally pluck metal from valves and piston crowns, and lead ultimately to hotspots in the engine.

Pre-ignition is when hotspots in the engine (which may or may not be caused by detonation (or pinking or knocking, however you want to call it) ignites the fuel before the spark plug. This is generally considered back, as not only does it mimic ignition advance (which exaggerates hotspots/detonation etc), it also causes valves to burn out, things to melt, oil to carbonise, and the engine to "run on". This is when even turning off the engine (in a carburetted car) will not stop the engine, and you have to some how let the engine cool before it will stop. Usually reducing the throttle will eventually do this, but not always. It then feels like a stuck wide open throttle, which I can assure you isn't a nice feeling.

You trying to 1up me with your text book definition lol(sarcasm). Regardless i wasnt trying to school him on the topic or i would went more specific. between the differences. i was trying to get him back on the same page because it seemed he didn't know what "Detonation" we were talking..

"Detonate where? The gear box? Rear axle? Up stroke? Down stroke?"

Pre-ignition I can cope with as with knocking and pinking. I know those terms amd I know what is happening. Detonation is a new one on me. Seeing as how detonation occurs in the piston anyway it's not a particularily good term.

mmm so interesting seeing difference in culture, in america Detonation is common in describing knocking. likewise pinking is new to me, don't know the logic of saying pinking instead of pinging

Good idea, but not applicable unless LFS allows detailed RL style engine tuning (ignition timing, cam profiles, etc). Last thing we need is a lottery blowup.

Throughout the world IN the automotive industry (i.e. not in peoples back yards or in motoring magazines) Detonation, Pinking and Knocking are all the same things, and all common used and interchanged. Pinging is most likely a spelling mistake in whatever magazine you've read.

Regardless of whether you're trying to school someone or not, it always helps to use the right words. You wouldn't call a wheel a tractor accidentally when explaining what you cut treads in, so why mix up knocking and pre-ignition? They are totally different things, and have different consequences for an engine. And besides that, mixing up your terms just makes you look like you've learnt everything from Max Power (or local equivalent).

why do you assume i learned what i know from a mag? pinging wasnt a spelling mistake.

"At high rpm it could progress to a sharp ping or tink sound that leads to the other common names of "ping" in the U.S. and "Pink" or "Pinking" in the UK and Europe." We were both right in regard to the name.

It ain't a 'ping' sound. It's definatly more of a pink. Pinkpinkpinkpink.

Calling it pinging sounds like your trying to tune a microwave. You yanks and the degredation of the english language.

To be honest Lala, you do sound a bit half cocked sometimes. I know I'm not the be all and end all but I don't try and blag my way through by pretending to know stuff when I don't. Actually, thats a blatent lie, what I'm doing is dumbing down so I don't appear to know everything.

Anyway. What was the topic again?

Are you pronouncing it (pinking) like the color. Sounds so weird to me

Yup, pink-ing. Like the colour as you say. Go into any car manufacturers and ask the engine guys there if it is pinging or pinking. I'll put my money on the one with the k.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Yup, pink-ing. Like the colour as you say. Go into any car manufacturers and ask the engine guys there if it is pinging or pinking. I'll put my money on the one with the k.

In Holland it's called "pingelen", which translates to the english "pinging"...

Holland isn't known for it's car manufacturers

Local garage terminology, or magazine vocabulary might be somewhat different, usually because they don't really know what it is, and misheard the person that told them.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Holland isn't known for it's car manufacturers

Local garage terminology, or magazine vocabulary might be somewhat different, usually because they don't really know what it is, and misheard the person that told them.

you seem arrogant you know

Quote from lalathegreat :

you seem arrogant you know

arrogance is often confused with being right

um no its the fact that i have never hurd anyone say pinking, everyone i know over here in america calls i pinging thats if they don't call knocking or detonation. I searched and see that in europe its more common too say pinking. i accept it. But he goes on saying hes right and everyone else is wrong calling it garage,mag terms. It seems from my perspective, he thinks he superior to everyone and no one knows anything because he works with"race Engines"

Not quite, I tend not to think that I am more correct, just that others are more and more frequently wrong. The car tuning culture has meant that almost every bloke thinks they know about engines because the fat bloke in the workshop told him something his mate told him about a guy he used to know who runs a rolling road because it was advertised on the cheap.

More and more tuners are becoming more and more ignorant, and more and more people are becoming equally ignorant and fail to see how ignorant their tuner actually is. Many people think their rolling road guy must know about engines because he has a rolling road, but maybe, just maybe (okay, bloody likely actually) they have one because they can make a lot of money out of it? I've been to about two dozen 'local' rolling roads and only one had a vague clue what he was talking about, but he was the one who couldn't work his rolling road properly. The others knew how to make a nice power curve get printed, but didn't know iginition advance from theor arse (deep down). (Deep down understanding, not deep down their arse, that would just be odd and rather filthy).

Just because 'the internet' says pinging is a common term doesn't mean that it is so I'm not saying, either, that you HAVE to call it pinking, or that no one will understand you if you use the term pinging. All I'm saying is that people who design or research 'engines' (which I don't I might add) almost universally use the term pinking not pinging (and would even more regularly use the term detonation).

This started first of all because you got confused between pink(g)ing and pre-ignition, so that lends me to assume the position that you don't actually know what you're talking about in the first place, and therefore are not really in the position to argue if pinging or pinking is technically more correct. If I'm wrong and you do know about engines then I'm sorry, but so far no proof and a dodgy understanding of basic combustion principles isn't helping your case in my mind.

i knew the difference i just was throwing terms out cause he didn't seem too know what detonation i was talking about. Are you gerneralizing all tuners from the ones you know in england?
Edit i don't use Pinging sounds retarded to me, i use knocking or detonation.

You didn't seem to know what detonation you were talking about either.
No, I'm generalising from all the tuners and tuning stories and guys bragging about their turbo's hatchbacks I've ever heard.
Agreed - detonation sounds so much more scientific!

Quote :

Just because 'the internet' says pinging is a common term doesn't mean that it is so

Actually, it does.
If you get 42000 google hits on engine pinking
and 4.2 million hits on engine pinging, then pinging is the commonly used term.

And no, we're not known for our car building... But we did invent the theoretically perfect CV transmission. Has to account for something.

42000 hits for pinking - maybe a few are spelling mistakes in websites, but most will be about detonation.

4.2M hits for pinging - pinging is a normal word as well. Elastic can go ping. Drop a bolt and it might go ping. Fire a dried pea at a gong using a straw - the result? A ping. Thus pinging is common in normal english which will skew any results you get.

The internet (and especially a google search for two words) isn't really a fair test of whether one is more commonly used by engine designers or not. Note, I'm still talking primarily or engine designers, who usually don't have crappy personal websites talking about how great there car is now they've fitted a ship engine in the boot. So google won't pick that up either.

Quote from tristancliffe :

The internet (and especially a google search for two words) isn't really a fair test of whether one is more commonly used by engine designers or not. Note, I'm still talking primarily or engine designers, who usually don't have crappy personal websites talking about how great there car is now they've fitted a ship engine in the boot. So google won't pick that up either.

Symantecs... You said "just because the internet says pinging is a common word doesn't make it so"... No mention of engine designers. I could say "just because most engine designers you know call it pinking doesn't make it a common word." Common amongst engine designers, yes. But that's not what you said. But we're getting way off-topic now.

Symantecs?

Oh, right..you meant "semantics". Had me confused for a tick there

Quote from tristancliffe :

Throughout the world IN the automotive industry (i.e. not in peoples back yards or in motoring magazines) Detonation, Pinking and Knocking are all the same things, and all common used and interchanged. Pinging is most likely a spelling mistake in whatever magazine you've read.

I think you'll find that I DID specify IN the automotive industry (by which I meant the engine chappies who work for car manufacturers throughout the world). It's no really semantics, as I specified where I meant the term was most commonly used, and even made it clear in several posts later that the 'amateur scene' (in which I include small tuning firms, most garages, any magazine and the backyard/pub mechanics) may use different terms for various reasons.