DK2 support without 3D, good job

Downloading the update, 3.1gb in total. This should take a while on my 3mb/s internet. Hopefully it's worth it though, we'll see.

slowly but surely this sim is getting better over updates.

it's all benefic for us sim racer after all.

Spa is beautiful, do not know about accuracy, but for the eyes at least it is good
The Trento road looks like very very funny with some proper rwd, even if some invisible walls are there (ok, outside the road, but what did you expect )

It's definately an impressive effort. I have only driven the occasional single lap during developement, but as there is a somewhat rudimentary career mode now, I dared race a tad more, and I recorded a vid of my very first race against the AI:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tcf9DaMlbz8

Graphics surpass those of Driveclub, it's almost as car-porn-like as GT/Forza and it drives quite well. I can recommend it.

Quote from Flame CZE :

DK2 support without 3D, good job

Typical Kunos.

Quote from Töki (HUN) :

How about stop whining and try the rest of the features that came with the update? Just have a look at that list. DK2 is just one of the rest. It's not perfect, the issues are well known. People would've gone mad if there was no sign of DK2 in this update. Not that Scawen got it right in the very first update... It surely won't stay like that in 1.0, no need to cry.

Whining? Crying? Really? Well, this is the LFS forum after all, should expect these type of posts. I guess the LFS Defence Squad of the old days has now become the Kunos Defence Squad.

The way they hyped everything about this patch (hype which I didn't fall for, being an NKP launch customer) it's hardly a surprise that the Rift community is deeply disappointed (call it whining/crying if you will) about this laughably bad DK2 implementation. Hell, even calling it support or implementation is borderline lying.

People are disappointed, because the DK1 implementation was supposedly pretty good, and DK2 is pretty much the worst implementation of any game or demo out there, after being delayed for months. So let's "stop whining" and list some of the things that's wrong with it:

1. Rift has to be set as primary monitor, this is BAD PROGRAMMING
   
2. The main menu always displays in 2D, on the monitor
   
3. Because the menu is only 2D, this requires using windows shortcut keys to move the game between displays
   
4. The game itself only displays in 2D, same view is duplicated for both eyes
   
5. As a result, both the scale and depth perception are completely messed up/non-existent
   

Will they fix all of it for 1.0? I doubt it. That would mean actually creating a proper menu system that renders on the Rift, compared to this separated menu/ingame crap that they seem to love so much.

Didn't play for long yesterday.

The mod I'm working on now has no sound, so got to redo that. For the best I guess.
Surprised how quick the The Ferrari is considering how little grip it's actually got, and I enjoyed driving it but struggled to get used to the ship like braking distances it requires.

Spa is a very good recreation. Makes the amateur attempt of Project Cars look terrible (but then Project Cars is pretty damn awful).

The graphics are great, and very well optimised - I can have more details on than 0.22 but a higher, more consistent frame rate.

I haven't tried rFactor 2 yet, but other than that AC is king of the sims by a country mile at the moment. Yes, the multiplayer isn't as accessible as LFS, but the netcode is fairly solid these days. The only 'hits' I had yesterday were actual collisions and not hitting empty space were a car used to be. Sadly the collisions were also all my fault!

There are some things that need to be improved, fixed or added before I'd consider it a true release candidate, but it's not far off now.

Quote from Töki (HUN) :

That's all what you do. Like a baby who can't use his toy anymore.

Mature argument right there.

Quote from Töki (HUN) :

Interestingly though some other people managed to make it work without going nuts about it... even with the missing features.

Yes, it's possible to "make it work"... in 2D with a complete hassle.

Here is a screenshot merge from a 3D application
And here is a screenshot from AC eye viewpoints

Try if you can spot the issue behind the Kunos fanboy glasses for a minute.

Quote from Töki (HUN) :

Why expect DK2 to have such a priority, obviously it wasn't the case at Kunos.

This much is clear. If only there would have been a way to prevent the shitstorm, like maybe stating that the DK2 implementation is done by mirroring the eyes, rather than true 3D.

Hmm, yeah, pity that wasn't an option, apparently a much better way was to hype up the DK2 support with a big $$$ press event on a track with journalists to get more early access orders from DK2 users.

Quote from Töki (HUN) :

You can show me screenshots, I have no idea what should I see on those, I don't give a damn about Oculus anyway.

Yeah, I can see that.

Quote from Töki (HUN) :

DK2 support was nowhere near hyped FYI, don't know when you dreamt about that... Oh, they used it at the track event. Such hype wow. More like Spa and LaFerrari, new gfx were hyped. But yeah, go on...

Interviews, watched any? Interviews where Kunos himself was saying how the DK2 support is so great as you can finally see the 3D depth. Which, as it turns out, was a flat out lie.

But carry on defending your flawless god sim. Kunos can never do anything wrong apparently. TIL.

Hold your horses you two!

Here's something from VirtualR.net's comments where this very same DK2 issue came up:

Quote from aristotelis @VirtualR :

We hear you, but we would hear you better on our support forums which are dedicated for this kind of requests and other bugs. We're also pretty active in there.

That said, we only received our DK2 a couple of weeks ago. I'm sure our devs could use feedback and work on it. RC means the feature is in (it was important for our timeline to include it even at this state). RC doesn't mean that the features stay as they are, improvements and additions will continue

To me that says, they know it's not quite "there" yet. But they had to add it in it's current state to have the feature in 1.0 and need to patch it in future. End of story.

I'm not going nuts over anything, what I am doing is calling Kunos out on their bullshit.

I have my own DK2 project and hundreds of others to enjoy, ones that have been properly implemented in true 3D - which is the whole point of the Rift. Believe me, I couldn't really care less about AC after their catastrophic multiplayer launch. What I do care about, is calling out deceiving marketing and lying in interviews.

Clearly you haven't seen the Rift subreddit if you think "others are dealing with it" - since you already admitted you don't care about the entire Rift, which makes me wonder why you still keep on defending Kunos so hard.

This was the chance for them to deliver the Rift community with a sim that has both graphics and physics. Currently it has been take one, lose the other. PCARS, absolutely atrocious physics but great graphics. LFS, great physics, dated graphics.

And yeah Eza, I would be highly surprised if they will re-work the entire Rift support by 1.0. That "couple of weeks" ago seems to be another lie too by the way... they've had their devkits for well over a month.

One thing I want to add and this isn't pointed at anyone. Just my general view..

Is the 'Early access'. It was great move from Steam to start offering that, but same time it made it way too easy for people to get into alphas/betas to see the development progress. By that I mean, every time new build is released.. People tend to take it and treat it like it would be the very final version. And I don't mean AC alone now, but any popular Early access games there are. Most of the time, this generates unnecessary negative reputation for game inside the community. Constructive criticism and feedback of course is what devs are asking, but it hardly never goes to that by majority just saying how game sucks a** before it's even finished

Early access, alpha, beta, whatever you want to call it.. One thing always remains same: At the end of the day we are testers of unfinished product. People tend to completely forget that LFS, rF2, PCARS, AC, all same. What comes to "hype" these days. It's bit in funny state with Early access titles. While devs try to make their products look as good as they possible can or just show features for "look what we can do", same time their latest alpha/beta build is already completely destroyed by "critics" on forums saying how horrible it is when they are only testing early version of it

Lets take a short example. Those of you who seen the development of PCARS from the very first alpha build, knows how much things can change even in matter of only one week. For example car physics, week #1 'car A' drives like dream, week #2 it's totally broken, week #3 it handles like something the model isn't showing and on week #4 being once again totally different animal

What my main point is, lets not make final verdicts of something which isn't in very final version/build yet. Nukes costing a lot and sending them for no reason drives anyone to bankruptcy

And to make it clear, I'm not pointing fingers towards anyone nor taking sides of anything with this post. Just my point of view to current state of "Early access" development and how it's taken by public.

What comes to this 1.0 RC patch, my biggest concern atm is just the old car mods needing new sounds for FMOD

Actually AC has been one of the best examples of the early access games out there in my opinion. Updates happen on schedule almost always, the devs have been fairly responsive to the community suggestions and they haven't simply run off or cancelled the project like many other early access devs have. Even big names like Tim Schafer, no less.

I recognize I'm being a bit hard on AC with the DK2 support, that is simply because I want it to succeed and compete with LFS. If they had simply spoken the truth before the patch, I would be much more lenient towards them.

If they will bring the multiplayer and the menu system up to a usable state along with the Rift support, that would pretty much be it for all the other sims out there. Until then, we have to wait and see.

What does "feature complete" mean anyways?

Quote from Hyperactive :

What does "feature complete" mean anyways?

Absolutely noting.

Anyone got any decent FFB settings for a G27? Default was shaking my desk and second monitor to pieces, reduced gain to 50% and now it's just practically non-existent.

Multiplayer still seems very annoying. Like for example, if you click a server in the list then click out of it, it takes you back to the top of the server list again!?!?! And don't get me started on how long the setup verification takes - I've missed 2 starts because it had to re-verify my set when I changed it from qual to race....

This game has got a lot better in the latest update. Especially the Spa is very fun to drive. Sadly this game is only Single-player for me. If they don't do any major changes to MP, you won't see me there.

Quote from Hyperactive :

What does "feature complete" mean anyways?

Wikipedia:

Quote :

A feature complete version of a software is an advance version, which contains all intended functionality of the final version, but is not yet final due to bugs, performance or stability issues.

Usually a feature complete software still has to undergo testing and bug fixing, as well as performance or stability enhancing before it can go to release candidate, and finally gold status.

Well for me they completely broke the mp. I can't join any server which claims to have more than 8/24 players or so. Only servers I get in have something like 3/16 players. So I can't say anything about fps either. For solo driving and slight traffic it seems fine.

Also where is the frames_ahead thingy now? It is not in my video.ini... Do I need to manually add the whole line? What have you guys done?

And then the cobra. You know what I'm going to say. Well, let's start with the easy bits. On stock setup the car has no dampers. The suspension is so underdamped that the car is bouncing up and down at least 3 times for each pebble you drive over. Changing the bump to 4k and rebound to 6k all around fixes that. Probably some stiffer springs maybe... Also it looks like the brake bias is not too rearwards anymore. Which is nice.

The tires are still weird. But different. This time around the car does not simply spin around randomly in longer corners. But it has some kind of issue with the lateral grip dropping to nothing when you get a slide. Kinda like rf1 but at 30 degrees it snaps back. So most of the time when you get loose the car turns into old 911 and after that you are driving a pendulum. But just like in iracing just smash the brakes and it straightens itself out! The same seems to work in the merc gt3 too. If that is some change to the tires I'm not impressed...

The cobra is better than it was with its unspinnable launching system out of corners but it is still weird.

Also something funny. I have somehow trained my brain to lift off the gas automatically when the screen starts to darken. Usually the screen going dark means the session is ending in few seconds and it happens in all games. Well in ac I get my screen going darker (filters?) in some parts of the nordschleife (exit of the turn in hohe acht). So I'm lifting the throttle for couple of tenths before my brain reacts to it and I floor the throttle again...

Quote from (FIN)Eza :

Quote from Hyperactive :

What does "feature complete" mean anyways?

Wikipedia:

Quote :

A feature complete version of a software is an advance version, which contains all intended functionality of the final version, but is not yet final due to bugs, performance or stability issues.

Usually a feature complete software still has to undergo testing and bug fixing, as well as performance or stability enhancing before it can go to release candidate, and finally gold status.

Still confucius.

I like the netcode. I've not had any issues with cars jumping or fake collisions, and yesterdays update seems to have improved it even more - absolute wheel to wheel action confident that I won't get a 'fake' collision. Is it quite as good as LFS's? No, probably not, but it's still very good in my experience.

Haven't edited an AC ini file in about 6 months.

The netcode itself has worked just fine for racing that I've tried, but it completely falls apart when drifting. Must have something to do with the car rotation/steering angle prediction.

Maybe that explains it - I'm not known for doing much drifting (on purpose).

Quote from Hyperactive :

...
The tires are still weird. But different. This time around the car does not simply spin around randomly in longer corners. But it has some kind of issue with the lateral grip dropping to nothing when you get a slide. ...

I feel less alone after reading you and got uncatchable slide in all the 3 corners i have taken with the cobra in my life ... I thought I was going gentle, but looks like a noob discovering the throttle pedal in an hypercar

Quote from Flotch :

Quote from Hyperactive :

...
The tires are still weird. But different. This time around the car does not simply spin around randomly in longer corners. But it has some kind of issue with the lateral grip dropping to nothing when you get a slide. ...

I feel less alone after reading you and got uncatchable slide in all the 3 corners i have taken with the cobra in my life ... I thought I was going gentle, but looks like a noob discovering the throttle pedal in an hypercar

Yes, the Cobra feels worse than when I last drove it.