Self explanatory.
I have finallyy gotten used to my DFGT, and began making close laptimes quite often. The thing is no matter what I do, what fancy racing techniques I use, how much speed I try to carry and how early I step on full throttle, I am still an average driver in terms of laptimes. This infuriates me as I've been playing LFS for a long, long time now, yes, I only recently started to treat it seriously but I should have learned more nevertheless.

So here's my replay to give you folks something to laugh at, maybe someone will notice anything important.
Don't see the option to attach the file (weird) so for now I'll put it on hosting.
http://www68.zippyshare.com/v/jqvefjUw/file.html

Cheers.

hey,

just some things I noticed:
try to use more of the engine break in T1 by shifting down more quickly. Every time you shift down you should come close to the red line in the rev meter. For some reason you do it mostly right on the right turn after the long straight, but in T1 you always seem to be too careful.

Another thing I noticed is that you sometimes turn in too hard and therefore your car enters a small slide mid turn. With the xfg its all about carrying the speed through the turn and these small slides take away a lot of your speed.
Watch 6:30 in your replay, the right turn after the second split. You don't decelerate enough and then turn in too harshly so you have to counter steer mid turn sending your car in a slide across all four tires. Its one of the more obvious examples I found, but there are smaller slides all throughout your laps. Try to avoid these minor slides by braking earlier before a turn, turning in more smoothly and more importantly use more of the track when you come out of the turn.

Hi, that is not a bad lap time, but I understand your worry as we see today that the average player manages at least 1:34.0x-1:33.9x.
I watched the replay and it looks to me that you're not fully using the track width. If you look at top replays (1:32.xx), you'd notice that not a single centimeter is left out.
It also appears to me that you're not going very fast in the corners, even if you took the right brake points as other fast people, but because you lose some momentum in some corners, the result is that the optimal brake point is a bit farther than that of other fast guys, because you came out of the last turn a bit slower, except for the long straight corner, which is irrelevant because the car will reach the same top speed at +/- 1 kmph because the car would have run out of acceleration.
So have your setup checked. I think you're losing (not having a good) speed because you're not using the full width, because you're sliding, because you're off the ideal line sometimes, because you're not accelerating early enough, and because you're in hot lap mode and you didn't set your tire temperatures for 6 laps. If you want to do a hot lap, you must set your tire temperatures to be optimal (at 50°C) when you reach the half of the course and put the fuel to 2%. If you want to do 6 laps and hope that you get a good lap, then, it's better to do in Single Player mode or set tire temperatures to cold (at 30°C).

Download, fast replays and watch them, then watch your best lap, and see how different they are, where you're not as fast, and think how you can be as fast, of course, this won't get you to break the WR, but hopefully can be enough to help you reach your goal easier.

Also, I believe that you should try to modify your current setup. Make a copy of the original and try to play with the toe settings, this can help you reduce your sudden sliding that you didn't expect. Playing with other settings without knowing what they do can make the set worse. But MAYBE, try to reduce front anti-roll bars (40 N/mm) to the point the car feels a bit like a boat, maybe it will be more predictable, but less faster than top setups. Just try this once, a setup like this will only determine if your problem is feeling the car correctly. If you've felt the car correctly, I think that at the numerous occasions that your car drifted, you should have counter steered early, which makes me think that you didn't expect the drift to happen because you haven't felt that the car would drift. This setup is supposed to be forgivable, and maybe because it's forgivable, you can see that you may be doing somethings that are be useless or even wrong but since the set is forgivable, the consequences are less serious, if you don't see that, then delete the set, because I just thought this up and I haven't really tested it, but the point is to make the car behave almost like a street car (with a lot of body roll) which tends to be more forgivable, but more slow and they don't need a World Champion to be driven to the limit without breaking it. So I suppose that, maybe because a set is a bit more forgiving, it can help you spot mistakes or wrong patterns in your driving with more ease.

If that doesn't help, because I'm not sure it's any useful or helpful to do that, you can try asking people for a setup and try them until you find one you like and you are fast with.

Also, practice is the best way to improve, no one is born blessed with god-like driving. I was a noob as well and now I got where most people are still behind. My PB in XFG is 1:33.16, I feel like I can improve it if I try hard enough. In XRG, it's at 1:32.68, I also feel like I can improve it because my theoretical bests are much faster by at least 0.1s. But I know that you're not looking for tenths but seconds, and for that, you must practice more. Before I did 1:33 and 1:32, I was doing 1:38 and 1:36... I slowly improved to become this fast and that didn't happen in a day or a week.

I'm gonna tell you a method that I use to improve fast on a given track : Watch the WR replay, Memorize the line in the head, Note the brake and acceleration points as well as shift points and gears through corners, then reproduce it. Still not faster? Watch WR. Watch yours. Note the major differences and think how you can fix them. Try again. Still not faster? Watch WR. Watch yours. Note the differences and fix them. Try again... etc. It's not your join date that will determine your overall speed but mostly your lap count and experience. Being younger can help learn faster, but I have seen old people do very fast laps (Rentner).

So, I summarize what you may need to improve to be faster:
-Your racing line is not optimal. (Be close the edge when you brake and very close to the apex when you accelerate)
-Be smoother and feel the car to be able to predict how it will drive with at least 80% precision. (Enable force feedback and if you suddenly don't feel the force feedback when you're going in a corner, it can mean you're sliding)
-Brake when it's time and brake full power almost everywhere. (As a mouse user, I can't choose how much brake force I can apply but I'm still fast and I barely lock the tires except in T1 where the front is becomes suddenly lighter because of the hill. I use heel and toe to minimize tire lock effect in T1, some people reduce brake force at the cost of other braking zones. For wheel, I hear people have 560 - 650 nm, I don't like weak brakes because other sectors are slower, but you can fully press the brakes without a problem as long as you do it at the right moment. With 650nm, there is no chance for me to go through T1 without locking. Fast people with 650 nm when they brake have their throttle almost fully open, even with this force they manage good times even in sector 1. It's counter intuitive, so try around 560-600 nm.)
-Accelerate when it's time. (Most of the time it's just 1-5 meters away before the apex. Since you have pedals, you can accelerate quite earlier than mouse, I would have to tap the accelerator, but you must press it progressively and smoothly and when you reach the apex you should be at 100% throttle.)
-And most importantly, give yourself enough time. (Most people who do a fresh start have to go through many laps to reach that level. At 2000 laps, it's still not enough. If you look to be 1 second faster than 1:34.64, then around another 1000 laps can do it, in my opinion, you should be able to do it in less than 500, but everyone is different.)

Sorry for long post. I hope this helps. And if this is confusing instead of helping, zap it out of your memory.

Thanks guys for reply.

Quote :

try to use more of the engine break in T1 by shifting down more quickly.

I gotta say, you're right on this. Only today I have determined the revs at witch I should downshift (circa 6k rpm, isn't that?). But also I have found that with heel and toe my braking distance is just a little bit longer, so for a T1 I have to begin braking about a meter before the kerbs... or is that because I'm taking the corner too narrow?

Quote :

Another thing I noticed is that you sometimes turn in too hard and therefore your car enters a small slide mid turn. With the xfg its all about carrying the speed through the turn and these small slides take away a lot of your speed.

Well, yes. I tried to eliminate it today, not quite achieved that but I see some improvement.

Quote :

It also appears to me that you're not going very fast in the corners, even if you took the right brake points as other fast people, but because you lose some momentum in some corners

Only by sliding? I noticed that even if I don't slide, and barely fit on the edge of the track, my speeds are just a tad lower than the others.

Okay, in general - yesterday (or maybe two days ago) some guy named TRek I believe, has sent me his set. It's great for me, better than anything I have tried so far.
Then I asked someone to observe me doing some laps, and well, it wasn't all that necessary, because all of a sudden my splits dropped to like 30:05 and 1:07:25 resulting in my new pb.
But the trouble is it is not consistent, I pretty often struggle with those unexpected slides and most of the time I have no idea what causes them, except for the T4 - the second righthander after the straight - I noticed that if I wait just a fraction of second with turning in, I can just stomp the throttle much earlier and achieve greater speed as well as line. But then again it is easily spoiled at the first turn of third sector, righthander too, as well as good split 1 is spoiled by sliding or too little speed at T3.

In general I have no idea what my speeds should be, I end up with about 100kph on most of the turns.
I will try to make another replay tommorow, as I am 100% certain that if I don't spoil anything, my time will drop to high 1:33, it's just a matter of determining cause of these few issues I have mentioned.

Thanks again.


EDIT:
Ooooh, I forgot to ask - how is that possible that it took me learning to heel and toe and left foot braking (trail braking too!) to make the same times I did on mouse?

OK, so today I've managed to somehow improve (but still, final time is spoiled).
http://www41.zippyshare.com/v/ns0uZQAk/file.html
Tell me, what could this time be haven't I spoiled sector 3?

Well, I hoped someone would notice something new.
I've set rear wheels toe to 0, wich apparently made it more stable - it was +0.1, and after some lecture I find it strange, as the closer the toe is to negative, or the more negative it is, the more oversteer it should be. After that I've reduced front ARB from 88.7 to 60 and then 70, it feels safely understeer.

And I've reached 1.34.03 with Jinja's Jorj setup, but, well, it is quite strange, as one day I find it great, the other I slide on every corner so much that Ken Block would be proud.

A reason that it probably feels more stable from going from +0.1 to 0.0 of rear toe is that through a corner, maximum grip/speed is best attained when the tires are not going against each other to create a stabilizing force. Normally, toe is used to make stable entry or exit, it's effect is less significant mid cornering, I think. So I supppse, your car is now easier to drive through corners especially on the entry, as well as on the exit. Now, it should understeer less on entry. So, no understeer to fight in mid corner which leads to no overcorrection that will result a sudden snap oversteer on the exit. Although, this is just a thought. The best way to solve a handling problem is to know the cause. Fixing the symptoms will eventually make up other problems. Racing is all about physics and the fastest setup is the one that uses the tires to their max potential for the time they have before wearing out. Also, try to lower your tire pressures to around 195 kPa for the front and 205 kPa for the rear. It can be more easier to control the car because the tire response time will be lagged a little bit. Good luck for breaking the 33 s barrier.

So do you think it is possible to break this barrier with easier, safer setup?
Also I did manage to mostly tame the original one to the extent I get little to no sliding, mainly because of less harsh driving style. I tried not to delay my breaking and letting the brakes off in more soft way, also by more careful throttle control. Also, I got back to left foot braking in the last corner, only I have polished it a little, since the way I've been doing it was causing the oversteer.
In general, I've began driving softer, with no sudden changes to anything. This way I can get pretty good times for me, not the best ones ever, but at least they are more consistent now.

What about the second replay? Should I post newer one, with my current PB?

Hello
I have few advices for you. Firstly, on that 1:34.17 lap you could do 29.9x sc1 but you have wrong line in chicane, try to cut the first corner of chicane little bit more (right side wheels have to be on the top of that green curb), imo best way to learn perfect line in that chicane is to watch WR replay from lfsworld.net.

First corner of sc2 looks fine (not very good, but you have right line there, so probably after some time it will be better). You are not using the whole kerb while entering SS corners, try to go more on the left there, also you are braking for too long there, and it causes understeering in entry, so try to brake not as long, or start braking little bit earlier, or if you will improve your entry line there, you will be able to brake less, just need to use that kerb on entry.

In the second SS corner (last of sc2) remember to not cut the grass too much, because you will dirty your tires, and lose grip in first corner of sc3, actually on that 34.17 lap you didn't cut it too much, you had good line there, but im just saying it for future.

First corner of sc3 was good, maybe little bit too low speed, but braking point and line was almost perfect, so you don't need help there just practice .

You lost a lot of time in last croner, again you was braking for too long, and little bit too much, try to start braking little bit earlier to that last corner, and let go brakes before turning in, or in the same time. And i will say it again, you was braking there too much, you can do that corner with pretty much more speed if you will have good line there (also in last corner very important is to start turning in right moment).

And generally, i've noticed that you are using heel&toe every time you downshift, basically heel&toe gives you better braking only in T1, i don't think that it is slowing you down in the rest of corners, but it may be easier for you to use it only while braking to T1. I also saw that you didn't let go throtle fully while braking to first corner of sc3, it didn't cause big time lost, but obviously it is better to not do that .

And i think it would be it, i also recommend you to learn racing line from lfsworld.net replays (it don't have to be WR one, you can just look who did particular sector with best time, and learn line from him), but try to copy only racing line, perchance places where the fast guys are letting go the brakes, and what is their line before turning (while braking), where they start turning, don't try to copy their braking points because it will probably end bad for you

I almost forgot, i saw your heel&toe in sc1 is pretty good, you can try to make your brakes little bit harder, my are 590nm and 73% braking balance, but i've notice that most fast guys if not every of them, prefer to have more braking balance on the front (usually 1% more than me), but it doesn't work for me, you can try both of them and decide which one is best for you . But be warned, with that brakes im going on totally grip limit while braking to T1, if i screwed up heel&toe (which last time happened like 500 or more laps ago) i lock the front tyres, and go straight, and the same thing happens if i have dirty tyres, even the minimal value(?) of dirt only on front left tyre will cause front tires lock, and overshoot T1 or even crash if someone is near me. So with that brakes you have to be careful in last corner, to not get dirt on your wheels (dirt on right sided wheels isn't as bad, but left sided wheels have to be perfectly clear)

I hope that i helped and that you can understand my bad english, but if not, just pm me and i will reply to you in polish. Also take into account that i watched only your 1:34.17 lap, and all that what i wrote refers to that perticular lap.

Cheers, Anici<3

Hi Anici, congrats on your 1:32.81, damn it, you got so fast. Now try that sh*tty XRG and get that 1:32.3x...
Congrats to you as well, Rotaryman, you did 1:33.92.

Same as Anici, I only watched your 1:34.17 lap. But I suppose that this advice still applies because I suppose that your theoretical PB didn't change much (?). About a safe/easier/softer setup, I have no doubt that you can go under 1:34. The real doubt is that if it's able to do 1:33.0x or under. I think top players are so used to their setups that giving them an easier/safer one will make the opposite job than intended.

I think that you can reach 1:33.5x-6x in 1-2 weeks if you drive daily and you try to correct yourself what you think you're doing wrong. Focus on steering, it's most the important thing in time attack. That's why Mouse can keep up with Wheel and Keyboard can't. Don't try to fix your pedal work, because at this stage you're at right now, it's not gonna be as useful as if you try to improve your steering. Leave pedal work only when you reach your limits and those of the car and you're chasing that 0.1s others have over you.

For now, try to improve your racing line. If you master your racing line, implementing speed will be easier to do. If you have the best racing line, you are using the maximum of the track, which means that you can go at the fastest speed(if your pedal work can keep up). But you're not yet at that level. Try to drive the track at slower pace than your race pace, you can maybe notice a line which you can take without using a lot of steering, because the line that uses the least steering, maximum track, highest average speed and straightest corner exits is the fastest line(theoretically). So let off speed for now and try to learn the track in a different way, you can find a faster line, better reference points which will all help you in the end, if this works. So, increasing speed can become easier because you have the best line and the reference points(where to turn mostly). Focus on improving your steering input and racing line now, then try to improve your pedal work. For the best racing lines or at least to have an idea, I suggest you download a couple of hotlaps from LFS. Download one of 1:33.8x, then one of 1:33.6x, then one of 1:33.3x, then one of 1:33,0x, then one of 1:32.xx, watch those laps in chase cam, then watch them from inside(your driving cam). You can probably notice in those replays why they're not as fast as the faster laps, and what you notice is what you should try to correct, because it's probable that you are making the same mistakes. To sum it up, try to improve your racing line, then your pedal work. I advise you to not be too obsessed by driving, therefore, waste a bit of time to analyse replays. You can learn a lot watching them. Good luck, you're close to your goal. Hope I helped.

http://www41.zippyshare.com/v/pg4wVvuB/file.html

Managed to do 1.33.92, which basically means that the main goal is accomplished.
Also, I think I have mastered sector 1, as I am pretty often getting 30.0x, even 29.9x splits there. All that effort is lost on the rest of the track however, and yes, I sometimes do quite good sectors 2 and 3, but never all of them together.

Funny fact: my first sub 1:34 was after my girlfriend calld me to let me know that most probably I won't be a father.

1.33.79 today.
Still losing somewhere, especially on sc2 and 3, but don't know how.

And I haven't found option to attach files yet, guess I'm dumb.

http://www28.zippyshare.com/v/GxUwmoUJ/file.html

Please, have a look at this replay. I can't realy find mistakes on my own, I mean - I try to do whatever the fastest guys do, and the outcome is not yet satisfactory.