shit of JDM ... "Scheisse weg Japanautos"? Was willst du damit sagen?
No need for hate, embrace all car culture
shit of JDM ... "Scheisse weg Japanautos"? Was willst du damit sagen?
No need for hate, embrace all car culture
My close racing action in Automotodrom Most.
I lost the 3rd place, because of late shifting during overtaking. That's racing
I lost the 3rd place, because of late shifting during overtaking. That's racing
So historic racing is just about the most entertaining form of racing at the moment isn't it? The obsession with laptimes and corner speeds is just ruining the spectacle, and let's face it, anything less than a top-tier Formula or LMP car is slow as hell anyway, so what's the point? Sanitised GT cars with more grip than power and all the electronic aids.......touring cars so stiffly sprung and over-tyred that if they aren't beating each other up you might as well watch scalextric. I feel like we're missing out because of the perception that "faster is better".
Imagine a world where the top pro drivers were competing in an International series running 911s like we see in the video there.
Thank you for that Video! That´s beautiful! And I can only second what you said. That´s why I enjoyed Historic GPs the most when I visited Race Tracks regularly.
There´s one moment I probably will never forget I had on the Oldtimer Grand Prix at the Nürburgring many years ago. I think it was my first or second visit. One "race" on the schedule were GP cars of the 60s. The kind of cars you know from Grand Prix legends. Cigars, open wheels, no downforce. Pure driving machines. I think they even said this is a Demonstration, not a race. But what happened when they started was pure racing. I had mixed feelings, because on one side you don´t want that any of those cars gets damaged. On the other hand I was blown away how every driver fighted for his rank, every second. It was brilliant. Unfortunately there were also crashes and the mechanics had tons of work to do afterwards. It was a real joy seeing those cars not only in a museum and not only in a demonstration, but in real racing. High revving engines, outbraking opponents in front of the corners and going through the corners at the edge of what the cars with those tyres could do.
And just before the race ended we went into the paddock. And this is exactly what blew me away and what will probably stick in my head forever. The mechanics had to pull some of the drivers out of their cars. They were not able to get out on their own. And when they removed their helmets I had seen why. Many of those drivers where so old that it had the impression that when they are not in a race car, they drive around in wheel chairs. Many walked like Granddad and they must have been in the high 60s. But in the car those guys where 20 again, knife between their teeth and fighting for their position on the race track like they would have done in the 60s. I´m sure every single one of them, once sitting in the car, did forget about everything around them. How much the car is worth, the repair cost afterwards, that they could crash badly and get seriously injured. It id not matter. They had only one focus. Racing! And man, did they race!
Top drivers would get to the absolute laptime limit of these cars within 20 laps and then get so bored they'd want to throw themselves into a wall. These videos are most often fun to watch only because the drivers in it are normal drivers making a bunch of mistakes on relatively easy cars to drive.
Well actually a lot of historic events draw in professional and retired professionals from all over. It might be "for fun" but driving standards are higher than you might think.
I seriously dispute the idea that drivers would be bored.....why, because they're slow? That's a bit like saying a Rallycross car would send an F1 driver to sleep after 60mph. It doesn't work like that, and I don't think you can seriously claim that an old Porsche would be less entertaining to drive (for anyone at any level) than a modern GT car.
Finally, I'm not sure why being at the lap-time limit in these would be any different to any other class, except that it would look a hundred times more spectacular than most other classes. How would these be any easier to lap consistently than a modern 911 cup car with its paddle shift and ABS? To answer my own question: they wouldn't.
I couldn't agree more. Love watching slidey cars being driven on the limit.
Goodwood is on my bucket list.
Here are a couple more perspectives from the same meeting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1SLQsUVb48
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qBWvZ4vpKw
So called "normal" drivers wouldn't have the skills or balls to drive a historic car on bias-ply tires on it's limit. The boring part of historic events are the "normal" drivers that don't drive on the limit and can't keep up with the fast guys. But on another note, even modern motorsport events has these drivers so it's not that different.
A skilled driver can enjoy pushing pretty much any car, be it slow or not. With your logic there would have not been top drivers at all in the 60's or 70's.
IMHO historic racing (and rallying) IS the top tier of motorsport currently. I have been going to the thousand lakes rally event each year for my whole life, but for the last few years I have also added Lahti Historic to my calendar. Needless to say, the latter one is much more enjoyable.
PhilS13 is making the assumption top drivers aren't already in historic racing. If I know anything about motorsport is that those who were perceive to be the 'top' drivers, rarely are in fact that.
On that note the best karting championship in the UK this year is based on karts from the 90s. Historic racing has an actual definable purpose, it's an actual tangible thing, You drive the cars/karts/bikes primarily because that's what you derive most enjoyment from driving. Nothing is purer than that.
The rest of motorsport is a cascade of rich morons ejaculating a false sense of driving superiority because they happen to race in an 'elite' level championship.
Just to clarify some things...I understand that sinbad was saying that current "top pro" drivers should move into historic racing.
What I was trying to say is once you have driven an insanely quick modern car, racing a 60s touring car will be boring. It might be fun on a random event with no preparation and a less than ideal setup... but put them in a serious historic championship and they will somehow stop fooling around, make the cars behave, find the (boring) limit and the fun of historic cars sliding all over the place will be gone. The fact that bias-ply tires operate at a higher slip angle is not enough to impress me and it certainly doesn't impress current best drivers in the world.
I didn't mean normal as in my-mom-normal, they are impressive drivers of course
If somehow all the current top drivers are already in historic events then nothing changes...the videos are great to watch because it is not a serious championship and it is okay to fool around. Make that a serious international series and no more fun, just slow cars.
Edit: Oh and yes....modern GT is ridiculously too easy to drive. Agree 100% on that
What I was trying to say is once you have driven an insanely quick modern car, racing a 60s touring car will be boring. It might be fun on a random event with no preparation and a less than ideal setup... but put them in a serious historic championship and they will somehow stop fooling around, make the cars behave, find the (boring) limit and the fun of historic cars sliding all over the place will be gone. The fact that bias-ply tires operate at a higher slip angle is not enough to impress me and it certainly doesn't impress current best drivers in the world.
I didn't mean normal as in my-mom-normal, they are impressive drivers of course
If somehow all the current top drivers are already in historic events then nothing changes...the videos are great to watch because it is not a serious championship and it is okay to fool around. Make that a serious international series and no more fun, just slow cars.
Edit: Oh and yes....modern GT is ridiculously too easy to drive. Agree 100% on that
Juan Manuel Fangio at Monza.
What I still find impressive is the balls required to drive on the limit these cars which don't even have safety belts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cawBXWWgqCI
I don't think 60s touring cars would be boring at all. The f1 drivers in those days used to do lots of touring car races too. Jim Clark did many races racing cortinas. And the f1 cars in those days were the fastest non winged race cars ever. And he still did drive the cortinas a lot.
The thing about old cars compared to new cars is not just about the old car being slower and easier to slide. Because the old cars have less grip they also need less power to overcome that grip. In comparison every modern race car is insanely over tired to the point that getting wheelspin above 2nd gear is practically impossible. Second thing is that becuase of lack of aero the old cars generate lift. This means corners that are easily flatout in modern cars become non-flatout corners.
Then there are things like driving technique. Heel toeing a 1960s porsche around relatively twisty circuit leave very little room for mistakes. In such tightly contested series one misshift will drop you down in the grid at least couple of positions each time. Do it too harshly and the engine goes, the gearbox breaks or the clutch wears out. To handle that some drivers may even double clutch on downshifts. Compare that to modern race car where you have super fast steering (hardly need to even turn the wheel more than 90 degrees), 2 pedals, paddleshifters and all kinds of shift lights, delta time displays and pit radios.
Driving the cars and keeping them on the track takes a lot more effort in an old car simply because there is alot more things you need to do correctly. We would see a lot more driving errors and the best of the best would not only be super fast but able to do those times consistently. And the best drivers would also need to have mechanical sympathy. In modern racing it is already completely unheard of that in order to guarantee a good finish the driver shifts earlier for example. Not to mention managing the gearbox or the brakes....
That is not exactly what I said. Historic racing is only more entertaining for me because of the type of car you see there. TBH I don't care if it's a genuine old Porsche or a replica.
What I wish for is a move away from performance and lap-times, and especially away from tier-systems which basically dictate that cars have to be-faster/generate-more-downforce the further up you go. There should be more to it than that. Historic racing is really just an example of what motorsport as a whole could be about, still.
That's my take on it. But then I'd rather watch the F1 grid of drivers race a field of Caterham 7s than their F1 cars.
brilliant video
I tested the Ginetta G55 GT4 (car for UK kids) and I must say I really like it! Great car for endurance racing.
Ford 3.7l V6, 370hp
Hewland 6-speed sequential manual gearbox
950kg
Tell me what you think
Ford 3.7l V6, 370hp
Hewland 6-speed sequential manual gearbox
950kg
Tell me what you think
looks like it handles fairly well. I'm jealous.
BMW 130i CUP on Automotodrom Brno
I had a great time during two sprint races at Automotodrom Brno.
It's an amateur racing but It's a lot of fun!
And yes, I need racing brakes :-/
It's an amateur racing but It's a lot of fun!
And yes, I need racing brakes :-/
Great video, sorry about Race 2
Foot work
, as good as it getsNice video! Great driving!
E30 Slalom
I don't know how, but I won the slalom/autocross race overall from 89 drivers.
My old E30 was not in best conditions, but it was enough
Results:
http://csautoslalom.cz/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2015/06/Vysledky%C4%8CSautoslalom2015-2.zavodHodoninPanov.pdf
Video:
My old E30 was not in best conditions, but it was enough
Results:
http://csautoslalom.cz/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2015/06/Vysledky%C4%8CSautoslalom2015-2.zavodHodoninPanov.pdf
Video:
Too bad it is not the v12 version but still kinda nice to get onboard from such a rare car.
993 guy strikes again
It's rare to see someone push that hard in TF
It's rare to see someone push that hard in TF
Racing videos
(4786 posts, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG