hello to all that are still active around here! Actually, it's impressive to see how many long time active people are here.

Anyways, I'm seeking advice.
I've noticed over the long term of playing racing games, I pretty much am average/quick, but hugely inconsistent.

I'm blaming it on tactical feedback. Seriously.

I am looking for advice on how to improve my consistency when it comes to driving line, and thus lap times.

Now of course, the easy answer is "practice makes perfect!," however this is not at all the response I'm looking for. Why? Out of the several track events I've done, even from the very first time, my lap times (and line) are typically anywhere from <0.1 to 0.5 seconds (including traffic, surface conditions, etc.) per event.
Even my very first trackday I was under half a second gap during clean laps.

However, when it comes to racing games, my times are all over the place, and my lines are far worse; at least until I get into 'the zone,' which even then, I get worn out after an average of 3 laps when in the zone, and begin to go all over the track and it becomes a mess.

I'm assuming the best thing I could do to get me to something real would of course be a multi axis setup, however that is... well, obviously out of any budget range still lol, and also I don't do it all that much, just whenever I have free time. No leagues, etc. just having fun gaming.
My setup is a completely stock G27, stock pedals, and just wondering if anyone has any advice on what to maybe try or buy that would help hold me in the zone longer, than tunnel vision.

Sounds like a total newbie tip but try slowing down a bit make sure to hit all your marks the same way lap after lap and try to keep lap times as close as possible.

Then slowly start building speed but don't miss your marks! it takes time to build speed that way but in the end you will be faster and more consistent.

At Least that's what i do when i get a bit carried away IRL racing, just slow down and make it perfect not fast just perfect and the speed will come even if you don't notice it, a fast lap should feel slow . only sim hardware that helped my consistency is load cell brake

I think if anything, a consumer-level motion sim will make you slower.

I think one major thing you can do to normalize things between real life and the sim is a properly configured FOV, for which you need a rather large and wide screen (21:9, or triple monitors), or VR. As someone used to racing in real life, I find having the scenery scaled to realistic proportions in this way aids me greatly in getting re-accustomed to sim racing. People generally use a fairly large FOV on a relatively small screen and it makes everything look scaled down (i.e. small) and distorted.

Another is a properly configured, comfortable, consistent seating position, where the relationship between the wheel, pedals, screen, and seat doesn't change, either during a session or between sessions. That is unless a small adjustment is necessary.

hah, going slow is certainly not the issue, my line is far too inconsistent compared to what I can do on track. Especially if my first time ever on a track was as consistent.


I'm thinking it's something to do with my setup as well, or at least I'm sure isn't helping. Standard desk with a 32" tv about 3ft away from me, and more often than not, a wide angle.

I recently started trying a lower FOV using one of those online calculators, and while I had a hard time judging where things are, and am limited even still by a 32" screen, I noticed I became more consistent. But am incapable of using that view since I literally cannot see or know of anything around me (I lose reference to cars on my side, coming up from behind, etc.), making it too 'dangerous' for anyone around me.

As cheap as TVs are these days, I've been considering going up to a 42" tv for a while, but unsure if that will honestly help.

I really should borrow my friend's Oculus DK2 and actually try it in a game Played with it before going out to Barber Motorsports Park last year, but we only could watch youtube recordings since he had no software set up for it. Other than the rather IMO poor resolution, it was certainly an interesting experience. Waiting on VR to get to a solid-out-of-beta before getting into it though.

Quote from XCNuse :

hah, going slow is certainly not the issue, my line is far too inconsistent compared to what I can do on track. Especially if my first time ever on a track was as consistent.


I'm thinking it's something to do with my setup as well, or at least I'm sure isn't helping. Standard desk with a 32" tv about 3ft away from me, and more often than not, a wide angle.

I recently started trying a lower FOV using one of those online calculators, and while I had a hard time judging where things are, and am limited even still by a 32" screen, I noticed I became more consistent. But am incapable of using that view since I literally cannot see or know of anything around me (I lose reference to cars on my side, coming up from behind, etc.), making it too 'dangerous' for anyone around me.

As cheap as TVs are these days, I've been considering going up to a 42" tv for a while, but unsure if that will honestly help.

I really should borrow my friend's Oculus DK2 and actually try it in a game Played with it before going out to Barber Motorsports Park last year, but we only could watch youtube recordings since he had no software set up for it. Other than the rather IMO poor resolution, it was certainly an interesting experience. Waiting on VR to get to a solid-out-of-beta before getting into it though.

Wow! You're still around? Still in Georgia? Hope you been doing OK. Still making car skins?
Oh I don't know about Oculus (yet) but LFS plays pretty good on a 55" 3d tv. The 3d ain't all that though. It makes everything look a little floaty. Like playing using a view master.

yep, still in GA, definitely not making skins haha, I don't get on LFS that much anymore.

After a bit of research it looks like going triple monitor is a far better setup than a single large screen (wrap around is the effect aiming for).
So I guess, that is what I will be aiming for next I suppose. Wrap around screens would be awesome (the curved panels), but since those became more of a trend item as opposed to actually well sold items, they're just too expensive.

Likely will be aiming for 23" widescreens, just don't want to spend more than $100 each.

I think what I may try today is scooting my tv closer to me (hurts my eyes a bit more), and resetting the FOV, and giving that a shot.
Again, it's just hard when I do that, because then I lose the ability to see mirrors etc, and thus hard to see when someone is next to me.

Very hard to give advice without replays.

Now that I have got that out of my system...

When driving a car in real life of course we have so many extra "features" that help us...in the gaming world things are very different and you must have everything set up to your liking to be consistent.

In my mind facing the screen properly is more important than the size of the screen..eg..too far away or too close and of course viewing at an angle will not help.

Making consistent lap times is just about knowing where to brake and where to turn into the corner (basically)...so I do wonder about how you view the screen and where you are looking? To be consistent you obviously have to do the same thing (more or less) every lap at every corner.

I was never great at racing in this game....probably because I was uncomfortable when other cars were near me...no doubt, as they say it is all down to getting used to it.

Quote from XCNuse :

hah, going slow is certainly not the issue, my line is far too inconsistent compared to what I can do on track. Especially if my first time ever on a track was as consistent.

and why u think your line is to inconsistent? trying to hard? no? concentrating on going fast? no?

consistency comes first laptimes come later. if you can only do a few laps before starting to loose concentraiton youre just trying to hard. if done right going fast and consistent is effotless.
why? cus u don't have to concentrate on what lines you drive those should just be there but oh wait you didn't do more then 3 laps before fluctuating in your laptimes? so youre still cocentrating just to get around the track. its just my take on it, spending money on harware when the software between the seat and the weel can be tweeked for free seems kina like a waste for me.

I have tried several motion rigs, types of wheels, pedals and screen setups none of them made me fasater or more consistent exept for the cheap loadcell brake pedal set, and the loadcell pedal is also the only hardware that i could apply to my real life racing experience too.

but if you wanna spend money on your rig then get a proper screen with low imput lag TV is probably the worst thing u can even race on as the imput lag is usualy huge.

Simple, easy answer, practice, practice, practice.

Lots of miles (ми́ля) and experience will make you a better racer. That really is the only proven way to be faster. Yes, natural ability is awesome, however, if your not on world record pace by your 10th lap, I'd suggest you try practicing.

A great start is, slow in, fast out. Practice on not overdriving the corner entry as that only losses time, both in the corner but also on your terminal speed down the next straight.
Have fun

Again, it's not practice. Yes I agree it will help, but there is something larger at play here.

I can post up laptimes from my first trackday, and show each lap is heavily consistent, and that's the first time ever driving on a track, along with a rather consistent line.

It doesn't make sense that IRL I can run on a track and put down consistent times, on a track I've never driven around, and gradually get faster yes, but still have insanely tight lines.

But then put me on a track I know extremely well in a game, and within 10 laps have times that are separated by over a second at a time.

Practice doesn't explain that one to me. I'm not disagreeing, I'm just saying... practice can surely make me put down faster times, but that doesn't necessarily make me more consistent.


I was in the zone last night on PCars with Formula V8 at Spa, after like 15 or so practice laps, went into a race after putting down the 2nd fastest time in practice. 1 second off leader, but was put on the inside on the start of the race, so I had the lead down the straight, and he made a mistake of braking too late trying to pass on lap one.
(On a side note, I have learned to become more patient in races, I'm definitely less pushy than I used to be.. unless I want to be )
Anyways, I believe 8 lap race, after driving this setup for easily 45 minutes now, so a bit tired, had a fairly consistent race until the lap before final lap where I made two massive mistakes that nearly cost me pole, but had made a large enough gap to save me.

While in said zone I noticed I was very comfortable and not really wearing myself out. Easy car, easy track..

Lap times were good. Splits were a bit all over the place lap to lap. I would make up time, but that's my point about being so inconsistent. I can put down a fast laptime, but that doesn't mean my line is consistent as the lap before. My splits each lap were upwards of 0.3s off each time.
My laptimes were still 1:21s, but my splits were wack.

I give up, it IS practice as you can't seem to compensate for the lack of tactical feedback.. just face it, simracing has 2 main sources of feedback.. Eyes and ears. Get a low lag screen to make it easier to use your eyes and a proper headset to make use of your ears.

IRL I can also put down laptimes not even fluctuating by a second even in a multiclass race
http://www.amigoo.se/lap?heatid=21697&participantid=78156
https://youtu.be/Ok3qypVWmiY but still i have simracing times diff alot just beacause i can't be arsed practicing.

It would be helpful to see some replays of your laps.

Some TVs have a "gaming mode" that is supposed to have less delay.

8 laps are too few to tell anything about consistency I think.
I guess IRL people tend to leave safety margins but in sim one can drive without fear of destroying something. Less closer to the limit makes fore more consistent laptimes.
Also IRL unless you drive in F1 or something similiar high-level there is less feedback after the race. Maybe some onboard video and basic data logging. If irl you had all the telemetry and thousands of camera perspectives from sim you would probally find mistakes that now go unnoticed.

Quote from XCNuse :

It doesn't make sense that IRL I can run on a track and put down consistent times, on a track I've never driven around, and gradually get faster yes, but still have insanely tight lines.

But then put me on a track I know extremely well in a game, and within 10 laps have times that are separated by over a second at a time.

Practice doesn't explain that one to me. I'm not disagreeing, I'm just saying... practice can surely make me put down faster times, but that doesn't necessarily make me more consistent.

I think it makes sense.

The more you practice then the more you know where the limitations are....as an easy example take turn one at BL1 on LFS...if you are inconsistent around that corner then your lap time will also be inconsistent and that is disregarding all of the other corners.

Quite simply if your lap times are inconsistent then you are not doing the same thing every lap....which means you are making mistakes. In qualifying then of course you push the limits and mistakes can happen but in the race you should be running within the limits of how you take a corner...and with practice you know those limits...yes in qual. you might be able to brake right on the edge and gain a faster time but in the race that could well cost you time.

Also agree with above...in a game you can go mental whereas when you are really in the car then self preservation will hold you back. Yes, you may well be pretty consistent with your times on the track IRL...but do a thousand laps and you will realise you were just being consistently slow and safe.

Shortest answer I can think of: Sims are inconsistent in terms of simulation accuracy so you being inconsistent is normal. Sounds right?

To get consistent you have to get faster. To get faster you have to learn game mechanic and acquire exploiting car setups for given Sim. To do that the fastest way is to talk to a lot of players playing that Sim. And praccy a lot. Being fast will make your laptimes consistently fast when accounted for mistakes which just gotta happen.

Mainstream Sims are not at a level where you can use real-world experience to be as fast as in real life (to me, LFS came closest). So being consistent in real environment automatically excludes being consistent in virtual environment. Until stuff from 2nd paragraph happens.

A sim's accuracy may be good or bad, but why would it be "inconsistent"? It's not like the math would change itself at random.

Find a way to keep your seat and pedals from moving each time you sit down.

I can actually sympathize with what he's saying, and I don't think it's fair to say that it's "only practice".

People function differently, and relate to experiences differently, and any experience isn't defined for an individual by a different individual's ideals in terms of input stimuli and response. The point is that there's a mental gap between what he experiences IRL vs within a sim environment (as there is for everyone), and he processes them both differently enough that it affects his ability to function at his capacity in one but not the other.

One issue is trying to reconcile each experience as the same: it not necessarily true that your peak capacity in one medium can, or should, translate into the other medium. Someone like Huutu (sp?) seems to be an exception to that, as well as others, but the stimuli received and the response to them are still quite different at the end of the day.

Perhaps there's just not enough visceral mental feedback (physical forces, fear, adrenaline, auditory assault, mild desperation) to keep him "interested/focused/in tune" with a sim compared to IRL. He describes it well as "the zone" when things are going well in a sim and this whole thing may have to do with a high mental capacity on his part.

Just some thoughts, take it or leave it.

Quote from Keling :

A sim's accuracy may be good or bad, but why would it be "inconsistent"? It's not like the math would change itself at random.

Inconsistent in terms of end results when e.g. going through a corner. The math is the same but the starting variables reset often due to player interaction. Those interactions change the outcome every time they happen.
The higher the calculation frequency the easier achieving similar end result is, even though getting starting variables to same values gets harder. And opposite with lower physics calc. fequency.

Virtual pilots lacks several sensory inputs (visual, audio and tactile fidelity) compared to RL, lowering his ability to predict and reacts. So, the inconsistency is the combined result of player and Sim physic interacting in suboptimal ways. This is what I had in mind.

Can inconsistency happen without player interaction? Besides RNG or simply bad physics model nothing comes to mind atm

Well, you reminded me that simulations can always have bad numerical stability. There is also the lag factor in MP (not related to hot lapping).

I dunno... the only way to really get the most realism from playing a video game, in this case a racing simulator, involves the use of hallucinogens and an isolation chamber. Anyone see Altered States?
You don't really need a multi curved 3d monitor set up, just one that performs well in salt water.

Well after another solid focus for two weeks on ProjectCars specifically focusing in GT3 and Formula C at Brno and Watkins Glen, I had very consistent splits, and fairly consistent laptimes, but it still feels a bit weird.


However, today, I introduced myself to RaceRoom.
Holy crap.. I didn't know a sim game could feel so realistic. Torque jerk from transmissions? I've never seen such a thing in a "game" before. I think it's time to forget what I've memorized in PCars lol..


One can be consistent, it's true, and it does turn into "muscle memory," but on a track, IRL, that doesn't quite exist. With sensory input from all directions, and self limits, you become hugely consistent without any practice. I mean none.
Sure you get faster typically over time, but that's not "inconsistent," that's just learning as you go and gaining confidence.


Yes, you do lose the whole risk factor playing a sim because your life and car etc. aren't on the line, but unless I get a bit too into it and get focused, I leave lots of barrier zone, as I'm sure a lot of people do, to be safe, specifically during online races.
Hotlapping on a sim of course is a different story; everything on the line.



I think I'll skip on the triple monitor, as wonderful as it sounds, it'd be a ton of money. I'd rather begin to finally make a DIY sim seat or something and keep my tv and just shove it in my face, than spend the hundreds of dollars on monitors, stands, and a new expensive graphics card.

I'm coming to the conclusion that it isn't that I'm NOT consistent, it's that due to the lack of sensory input, it makes it a bit more difficult for me to be consistent. I have to really put back to memory my brake points and lines; at a visual point.
Whereas IRL, you can recall a bump in the road, or something along those lines; same with throttle on points.

It's all very interesting of a subject though to be honest.

A sim is just that, a simulation. It can never be the real thing and, at present, can never feel like the real thing.

Your idea of a DIY seat, although they can cost as much as a cheap production one, is good. A set driving position helps a lot.
1 good 24+ monitor is ok, a cheap 32+ TV is also good.

That and find a sim you like and suits you, try Stock Car extreme, one month demo and see the thread for details.

Even GP Legends is (legally I believe) free now with a truck load of mods and that is fun to drive.

Find a fun game and drive heaps !

I do still have GPL sitting around somewhere, if not on my desktop already lol.
I haven't tried game stock car yet, that'll likely be next, seeing as awesome as RaceRoom is, the content isn't.. really what I want (I want more US tracks really is all), which PCars does offer, and I know game stock car doesn't at all.

Which has stirred an interesting debate in my head.
Why are there so few americans interested in sim racing?


The real reason I've made up my mind to finally move forward on some sort of simple DIY setup; yesterday during time attack on raceroom, the way I was sitting, I have no head support, so after about 15 minutes I was in serious pain!

I'm definitely not a teenager anymore haha!

I'm not aiming for anything crazy, probably just the stock seat out of my car, and a solid base my wheel and pedals can attach to (so everything stops moving).

In real life you drive with your butt, eyes, and ears.

In sim racing, you race with your eyes and ears.

How is your eye sight, and how can you notice the difference in g-forces in the corners? Do you have trouble with that?