Great race Saturday at Fontana (MAVTV 500), but was it too dangerous? What do you guys think?

For sure, it was absolute seat-of-your-pants excitement. I've been to Indy the last two years and this race on TV was more exciting than either of those excellent races in person. I don't think the speed is the immediate issue, it's whether or not the spotter can keep up with the action. My brother and I repeatedly said throughout the race, mainly after restarts, that there's no possible way the spotter could convey all the information they need to the driver, often because there's 5 or more cars within a single length of themselves.

At the same time, I feel like the drivers might not have respected the limit enough, if that's the right wording. At 220 mph, inches apart, they need to realize that cutting up or down a line isn't an option, even out of a turn when you want to run out wide.

For those poor souls who missed it, or those of you like me who enjoy watching it again (it was that exciting), IndyCar uploaded the full race to YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjsW9DTl4I4

Pack racing is a concern at those speeds, Rappa makes a good point about the spotters. If they were that quick but only had one or two grooves to run in then that's much easier.

A smidgen less downforce, sufficient to make the drivers a factor in lap time would help reduce the chances of pack running.

Also, can anyone explain why there is still grass on speedways and superspeedways?

Quote from Storm_Cloud :

Pack racing is a concern at those speeds, Rappa makes a good point about the spotters. If they were that quick but only had one or two grooves to run in then that's much easier.

A smidgen less downforce, sufficient to make the drivers a factor in lap time would help reduce the chances of pack running.

Also, can anyone explain why there is still grass on speedways and superspeedways?

Not so much a concern at those speeds, but in an open cock-pit at these speeds.

I think the multiple groves makes it safer because it gives competitors more room to move around to avoid an incident once it has started. A less wide race track would be more conducive for big pile-ups with multiple cars well behind the incident and, thus, at a much greater difference in speed.

Also, the grass is not at all needed, but all of the tracks (or basically all of the tracks) are owned by NASCAR (International Speedway Corporation, which was founded by the founder of NASCAR, and owned by the France family still). NASCAR wants the aesthetic appeal, and IndyCar barely turns a profit for these tracks, so their concerns are hardly noted at all.

IndyCar is just happy to be allowed to race on these ovals, so their safety concerns would lead to a cancelation of all future races at that venue rather than changes being made by the track.

If IndyCar would become more popular, this would change, but until then, nothing will.

Multiple grooves makes three and four wide racing - that is where the issues happen. Ask Sato and Power if they thought three wide was safe - they had nowhere to go. Drivers will fill the available space. If there is space for three or four cars then it is filled, reducing the speed at the front and making a bigger draft for those that follow; aka pack racing.

I think you're confusing grooves and track width. A two groove raceway could be as wide as Fontana so there is plenty of tarmac, just not "raceable" tarmac.

It's not simply the track that dictates the grooves; it's also the cars, principally though the amount of downforce.

Quote from Storm_Cloud :

Multiple grooves makes three and four wide racing - that is where the issues happen. Ask Sato and Power if they thought three wide was safe - they had nowhere to go. Drivers will fill the available space. If there is space for three or four cars then it is filled, reducing the speed at the front and making a bigger draft for those that follow; aka pack racing.

I think you're confusing grooves and track width. A two groove raceway could be as wide as Fontana so there is plenty of tarmac, just not "raceable" tarmac.

It's not simply the track that dictates the grooves; it's also the cars, principally though the amount of downforce.

I was replacing track width with groves, but I don't think the groves mattered much. If anything it was good that all of the real estate available in the corners was able to be raced on, because that allowed the cars to remain as they were on the straight without needing to file down into the corners (this is more likely to cause a crash in my opinion than actually racing side-by-side.

Regardless, everybody fought to be directly behind the car that was in front of them, even if there were two cars following one.

I agree with what you said; downforce should be reduced. However,I liked the pack racing to a degree. If the pack could be thinned out I would greatly enjoy the racing, and I would feel comfortable with the safety. Let's make it harder to keep up with the pack, but let's not get rid of it. Let's make them lift more in the corners and make cornering matter a little more.

Quote from Cornys :

I agree with what you said; downforce should be reduced. However,I liked the pack racing to a degree. If the pack could be thinned out I would greatly enjoy the racing, and I would feel comfortable with the safety. Let's make it harder to keep up with the pack, but let's not get rid of it. Let's make them lift more in the corners and make cornering matter a little more.

Yes. I like pack racing aswell, but Vegas is still not that long ago and the racing was somewhat familiar at Fontana.

That was an interesting point about NASCAR and the tracks, by the way. Am I right in thinking however that SAFER barrier was an Indycar initiative? I may just think that because I don't really follow NASCAR.

Quote from Storm_Cloud :

Quote from Cornys :

I agree with what you said; downforce should be reduced. However,I liked the pack racing to a degree. If the pack could be thinned out I would greatly enjoy the racing, and I would feel comfortable with the safety. Let's make it harder to keep up with the pack, but let's not get rid of it. Let's make them lift more in the corners and make cornering matter a little more.

That was an interesting point about NASCAR and the tracks, by the way. Am I right in thinking however that SAFER barrier was an Indycar initiative? I may just think that because I don't really follow NASCAR.

SAFER was developed for Indianapolis and IndyCar with IndyCar money.

NASCAR came about when it was over and footed a bill for half of its development cost and then installed it after having seen it work at Indianapolis.

IndyCar will return to Road America in 2016 Last weekend in June

Pirelli World Challenge and all tiers of Mazda Road to Indy all on the same weekend. 4 days

I had a great time at Mid-Ohio last week Here's a post I made elsewhere about my experience there:

Quote :

Okay, that was the best time I've EVER had at a race track. After the race people stormed the track and stole the "Honda" banners that were hung on the tire barriers. We walked around the track from the esses (walked from turn four almost to the keyhole to get back to our car) and found one in the carousel and we decided we'd like to have one for a friend who likes Honda. We spent 15 min trying to get it off, but we got it.

Then, a traffic director working for the track grabbed it when we set it down on the other side of the fence to cross over near the keyhole. He turned us over to the sheriff, who appeased the traffic worker and put the tarp into his car. He asked why we took it, so I told him that we decided we wanted one after everybody else took one. He smiled and said that we just lost our tarp and to get home safely.

Meanwhile, people were walking by with them in arm just fine. lol.

We went to eat at Steak N Sheak after the race in Mansfield near I71, and the manager saw my Rahal shirt when we were almost finished and told us that Rahal and crew were coming to eat after the race. We finished after most of the crew got there, and we were told that Rahal would be there around 8, so we waited in the parking lot. There honestly were only about 10 people there waiting for him, and one woman was an absolute nut. I let her and the rest of the group mob him when he got out of his car (he drove there himself). When he got free of them I walked over to him and shook his hand. I told him that I wasn't going to hold him up. I said congrats on the win, and good luck in the championship.

The rest of my group wasn't going to bother him (they were just standing back), but he went ahead and engaged them and asked us where we were from and if we'd been at the race. When we said that we had been at the race he thanked us for coming out and shook everybody in my group's hand before going in and eating.

Everybody but my fiancée was a first time IndyCar attendee. My cousin (and best friend) and his girlfriend were at their first ever motor race. They want to go back, and they are probably going to go to the Indianapolis 500 next year with us (money permitting).

The only REAL bad thing that happened at the race was the fans. We sat directly in front of the fence after tent canopies popped up in front of us on the hill between the Pro Mazda and Indy Lights race. Then we had people stand on the fence in front of us and block our view of turn 4. One guy had his butt directly in my fiancée's borther's face (he's 13).

This persisted about 35 laps before we finally said something. We're the non-confrontational kind of people, but when we did he asked where we wanted him. When we pointed to the open fence directly beside him (it had been there for about 10 laps now as the race was nearing an end and people were returning to their actual seats) he shrugged and scooted over.

All that said, we went to the track with 3 IndyCar freshmen, and two people making their 4th IndyCar race. We left with a bunch of memories that will last a lifetime, and five IndyCar fans.

No Fontana in 2016. Have to say, I'm okay with that. Road America coming back - more than okay with that

Quote from Storm_Cloud :

No Fontana in 2016. Have to say, I'm okay with that. Road America coming back - more than okay with that

I think it was best, but I'm still disappointed.

Phoenix will be April 2. 250 laps. Night race. IF the track and IndyCar can come to a financial agreement.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/motor/2015/08/13/indycar-series-phoenix-international-raceway/31669817/

https://twitter.com/IndyCar/status/635618906145726465

Closed cockpits should be tried and implemented ASAP. No matter what idiots, who frankly have enough stupidity to call themselves "true racing fans" that keep moaning about how-exciting-80's-real-men-was are saying. We cannot afford to spare another soul.

Quote from TexasLTU :

https://twitter.com/IndyCar/status/635618906145726465

Closed cockpits should be tried and implemented ASAP. No matter what idiots, who frankly have enough stupidity to call themselves "true racing fans" that keep moaning about how-exciting-80's-real-men-was are saying. We cannot afford to spare another soul.

Yeah... But they have to be introduced in all forms of open wheel racing. In GP3 there were a couple of people very very lucky to not be hit by a tyre or anything.
On another note, IndyCar seemed to have gone to a pre-Wheldon oval racing style again. Going 7-wide into turn 1 is definately more then just borderline.

IndyCar oval racing is different than what it was prior to 2012, but it's certainly more dangerous than what it was prior to the aero kits.

Basically, it boils down to IMS owning the series and IMS not wanting speeds to be higher than at IMS at other tracks (like Fontana for example). For this reason they have mandated certain higher down force kit components at places outside of IMS.

It's a shame really.

Reguardless, I don't think that particularly contributed to this incident, although it may have helped avoid it. I blame the amount of single car spins on lack of practice time at Pocono with the new kits. They only had two practice sessions for a total of three hours.

From the start of the race everybody was struggling to add down force or remove it, because they were not sure where it needed to be until halfway through the race. Typically, the teams have a really good idea of where the down force levels need to be at an oval unless the conditions have changed. This time, the conditions hadn't changed much if any.

Goodbye Justin. Always been a fan since you won the old F3000 title.

Thanks for doing what you did, Justin. Thank you for being such a great person, and thank you for the giving that you did even after having passed away.

The racing community aches, but we will move forward as you would have wanted us to.

(I posed similarly elsewhere, but didn't want to be the first one on here)

"Kiwi Scott Dixon captured a fourth IndyCar championship by winning the season finale to snatch the title from Juan Pablo Montoya.

Montoya led the points from the season-opening race right until the final lap Sunday. But he finished the race in sixth, which allowed Dixon to tie him in the standings.

Dixon was awarded the title based on wins; Sonoma Raceway was his third victory, while Montoya had only two. The New Zealand driver entered the race third in the standings, 47 points behind Montoya. The race was worth double points."
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11505619

“We knew at the start of the weekend the title was still a chance and that’s what we were hoping for,” said an elated Dixon.
“This is fantastic. I don’t know what to say. “Thoughts and prayers first to Justin Wilson’s family.
“We were such a long shot to win it, and we won it on countback. I can’t believe it.”

Well done Scott, 4th Indy Championship and I'd love to see Montoya's face ! He's such a gracious loser.

“Dixon had a shit season all year and had one good race, and we paid the penalty,” Montoya said, bluntly, in his post-race press conference.

Here, have a tissue. And perhaps if you hadn't chosen to hit your teammate you may have won !

Good end of the season, self-enjoying arrogant fatty got what he needed, next time he'll know how to hit his own teammate.

Great battle straight until then end

Next race on my list of events to watch now that the IndyCar Series is over for the year: Bathurst 1000 in October

Lot's of Kiwi's entered in the V8's, and even more at Bathurst as co-drivers.
Always the best race of the year down these parts !



It's a Kiwi thing

Here's the last lap to give you an idea of just how awesome that was from Scott.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAFRS5r2g8E

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