One of the reasons to this attack was ISIS trying to create more opposition against Muslims in Europe. More people start hating Muslims and this will create isolation between Europeans and Muslims. Many Muslims will start supporting ISIS because of the racism they confront. Hate just creates more terrorism, and that's what ISIS wants.

Like someone said earlier, we look value of life differently, depending on which country the victims live. USA has probably killed more innocent people in last decades than all terrorist organisations together. USA is actually the main reason why there are groups like ISIS making these attacks. People just don't realise it because they automatically think West is good and East is bad.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

Try reading it !

History is like a jigsaw puzzle, you need to put together many different pieces to get an idea of the picture.

This article is a mix of sources, all with links and often with multiple sources for the facts raised. It's mainly US media, US intelligence, and Investigative Journalists, like Seymour Hersh. As the article says in the introduction, get a cup of coffee and have a long read.

And, as a tiny spoiler, just to give you an idea of whats here and of the groups America et al are arming and training.......

"Current and former American officials acknowledge the government’s lack of deep knowledge about the rebels. “We need to do everything we can to figure out who the non-ISIS opposition is,” said Ryan C. Crocker, a former United States ambassador to Iraq and Syria. “Frankly, we don’t have a clue.”

And yet, as the Wall Street Journal, PBS, CNN, New York Times, Medium, Pulitzer prize-winning reporter Seymour Hersh and others note, the U.S. and its allies have poured huge amounts of weapons and support to the Syrian Islamic “rebels”. This is in spite of the CIA warning President Obama that arming rebels rarely works.



The Pentagon and the CIA, as well as Britain and France, have been training Syrian rebels in neighboring Jordan since at least October 2012, as reported by The Guardian."

And for our "USA !!!, USA !!!, USA !!!" readers...

"Why hasn’t Fox News been blasting alerts like “Obama Backs Muslim Terrorists, Helping to Create the Islamic State” for years? Wouldn’t their xenophobic viewers gobble up such red meat with relish? Couldn’t the Republicans make stacks of political hay with such a talking point?

But, no, apparently bigotry and scaremongering are only to be harnessed to support war, and never to oppose it. The right’s criticism of Obama’s Syria policy has been that he hasn’t supported the al-Qaeda/ISIS-led Syrian opposition enough. Apparently, the lesson of 9/11 is that we must embrace perpetual war, even if it means fighting with the perpetrators of 9/11 in that war."

And to end on from the above link .....

"The secret Pentagon document thus provides extraordinary confirmation that the US-led coalition currently fighting ISIS, had three years ago welcomed the emergence of an extremist ‘Salafist Principality’ in the region as a way to undermine Assad, and block off the strategic expansion of Iran. Crucially, Iraq is labeled as an integral part of this ‘Shia expansion.’

The establishment of such a ‘Salafist Principality’ in eastern Syria, the DIA document asserts, is ‘exactly’ what the ‘supporting powers to the [Syrian] opposition want.’ Earlier on, the document repeatedly describes those ‘supporting powers’ as ‘the West, Gulf countries, and Turkey.’

Further on, the document reveals that Pentagon analysts were acutely aware of the dire risks of this strategy, yet ploughed ahead anyway."

thanks it will make an interesting read and I agree with what you say earlier about people should stop with the muslim hate speeches, I know quite a few muslim people and they condemn such attacks and it must be remembered that the attacks had been carried out by ISIS/ISIL and cannot be blamed on every muslim person

Quote from CardsetCrazy :

One of the reasons to this attack was ISIS trying to create more opposition against Muslims in Europe. More people start hating Muslims and this will create isolation between Europeans and Muslims. Many Muslims will start supporting ISIS because of the racism they confront. Hate just creates more terrorism, and that's what ISIS wants.

Like someone said earlier, we look value of life differently, depending on which country the victims live. USA has probably killed more innocent people in last decades than all terrorist organisations together. USA is actually the main reason why there are groups like ISIS making these attacks. People just don't realise it because they automatically think West is good and East is bad.

You could not be more wrong, the killing of innocent people in the people in the middle east has been going one for a lot longer that the current conflict in the middle east

The following article has some examples of the numbers and there is an attached PDF file on the site with official documented info

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/10/07/isis-s-gruesome-muslim-death-toll.html

(I am not claiming that any of the numbers guaranteed to be correct but common sense tells that 100s of years of killing of there own people would be greater than those innocents killed in the conflict by usa) . saying that the killing of one innocent person is one too many

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks

Quote from bishtop :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks

Quote from Racer X NZ :

Stop with the killing and rape of the European civils please. It is completely disgusting and pathetic hate behavior.

Fixed it for you.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

Well, in the wake of the Paris terror attacks (which themselves came on the heels of the Russian passenger jet disaster over the Sinai Peninsula and bombings in Beirut that killed 43), everyone involved apparently felt compelled to send some kind of message to the public regarding a collective desire to work towards a solution in Syria and so, the foreign ministers have now produced an amorphous “transition plan” for the country that calls for a meeting between Assad and “recognized” opposition groups followed by a cease fire within 6 months. Ultimately, there would be a new constitution and elections by the the end of 2017. Here’s Bloomberg with more:

Seventeen nations, spurred on by Friday’s deadly attacks in Paris, overcame their differences on how to end Syria’s civil war and adopted a timeline that will let opposition groups help draft a constitution and elect a new government by 2017.

As a first step, the United Nations agreed to convene Syria’s government with opposition representatives by Jan. 1, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry and Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Saturday at a joint press conference in Vienna. A cease-fire between the government in Damascus and recognized opposition groups should be in place within six months, according to their statement.

“It is time to deprive the terrorists of any single kilometer in which to hide,” Kerry said. “There can be no doubt that this crisis is not Syria’s alone to bear.”

Assad has “cut his own deal” with Islamic State, (Complete rubbish, read this UK/US report about Turkey.) buying oil from the group and failing to attack militants, Kerry said. (Kerry really is full of bovine excrement) Assad’s allies have conveyed that he’s prepared to be serious and engage in talks, but the “proof will be in the pudding,” he said.

Diplomats meeting in the Austrian capital also decided to place Islamic State, along with the al-Qaeda affiliated Nusra Front terrorist group, on a list of those subject to military strikes even when a cease-fire is in place. The list, managed by the Kingdom of Jordan, may later be expanded to include other groups in Syria, Kerry and Lavrov said.

The Paris attacks “show that it doesn’t matter if you’re for Assad or against him,” said Lavrov, “ISIS is your enemy.”

Well, maybe. Unless of course you view ISIS as a valuable destabilizing element that helps not only to keep Assad off balance but also to undercut Iranian influence in Iraq, in which case ISIS wouldn’t be your enemy. “Strategic asset” gone rogue, maybe. “Frankenstein” turned on its creators, maybe. But not exactly your “enemy.”

Here are the main points:

1 Month, or, by Dec. 14: Diplomats will reconvene to review progress
Jan. 1: UN will seek to convene Syrian government and opposition in formal negotiations
6 Months, or, by May 14, 2016: Cease-fire between Syrian government and opposition groups; process for drafting new constitution
18 Months, or, by May 14, 2017: Free elections administered by the UN held under the new constitution
Obviously this is just a concilliatory half measure (at best) designed to pacify a panicked public.

Need proof? Just look how excited Kerry and Lavrov are:



Make no mistake, there's no real "plan" here. What will almost invariably happen is that the US will go right back to dropping ammo to "moderates", the Saudis and Qatar will go right back to providing support to who knows which Sunni extremists in Syria, while Russia and Iran will go right back to eradicating anything that even looks like a rebel.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-15/syria-fixed-kerry-devises-farcical-transition-plan-russia-others

The real question - when you really sit down and think about it - is why, if the West is so determined to wipe out ISIS, Washington hasn't simply embedded 1,000 or so spec ops with the Kurds and marched on Raqqa, the ISIS capital. Kurdish forces just retook the Iraqi city of Sinjar (where ISIS displaced and terrorized the Yazidis last year) with relative ease under cover of US airstrikes. You can drive from Sinjar to Raqqa in less than six hours:

And it's not like the US has to worry about running into the Russians in the course of providing air cover. After all, Russia has for now pretty much conceded that airspace to the US while Moscow and Tehran restore Assad's power base in the West. Just take a look at the Russian airstrike map (it's not up to the minute, but you get the idea):


"The point is that this is completely farcical. Russia and Iran are doing exactly what they set out to do. That is, first they'll restore the Assad regime and stabilize the country by taking back major cities in the west, then they'll turn to ISIS in the east.

But what, may we ask, is the US doing? Look at the maps above, consider that the US and the Kurds just took back Sinjar in the space of something like 72 hours and ask yourself this: "What is The Pentagon waiting for?"

If Washington is serious about defeating ISIS, just send in 1,000 spec ops, gather up some YPG soldiers, fire up the air support (the Russians aren't even in the area), walk down to Raqqa, and just take it from them. It's almost like the US and America's regional allies don't want to the world to know what's down there."

(And, my comment here, - Actually, the simple answer is that Turkey wants to take out the Kurds, so the above is completely out of the question, and so the game goes on.....)

"Amidst protesters' chants of "Murderous ISIL, collaborator AKP," Erdogan finally agreed last Thursday to enter the US-led campaign against ISIS, sending fighter jets into Syria and granting the US strategic use of a key airbase in the southeast to launch airstrikes.

At the same time, Turkey began bombing Kurdish PKK shelters and storage facilities in northern Iraq, the AP reported, indicating that the AKP still sees Kurdish advances as a major — if not the biggest — threat, despite the Kurds' battlefield successes against ISIS in northern Syria."

i agree. There are supposed to be many key areas where it is known that terrorist are based yet they are not always destroyed or attacked. It seems like they are holding off from killing certain people and then kill ones that more publicly noticed but happen to be low ranking and of no significance

And from the 'This will never appear in your media Dept'

Remember the G20 is on in Turkey ATM.

President Vladimir Putin says he’s shared Russian intelligence data on Islamic State financing with his G20 colleagues: the terrorists appear to be financed from 40 countries, including some G20 member states.

Putin also spoke of the urgent need to curb the illegal oil trade by IS.

“I’ve shown our colleagues photos taken from space and from aircraft which clearly demonstrate the scale of the illegal trade in oil and petroleum products,” he said.

“The motorcade of refueling vehicles stretched for dozens of kilometers, so that from a height of 4,000 to 5,000 meters they stretch beyond the horizon,” Putin added, comparing the convoy to gas and oil pipeline systems.

In fact, Russia has pointedly asked this question....

The refusal to share intelligence on terrorists “just confirms once more what we knew from the very start, that the US goals in Syria have little to do with creating the conditions for a political process and national reconciliation,” Deputy Foreign Minister Sergey Ryabkov said Thursday.

“I would risk saying that by doing this the US and the countries that joined the US-led coalition are putting themselves in a politically dubious position. The question is: which side are you fighting for in this war?”

A question that NZ refuses to answer at home, despite sending our SAS to help train ISIS.........

Investigative journalist Jon Stephenson told RadioLIVE on Tuesday that according to “very reliable sources” New Zealand’s elite SAS commandos are already secretly operating in Iraq. Stephenson, whose reporting in Afghanistan helped expose the complicity of New Zealand forces in war crimes, dismissed the claims of “training and mentoring” as a “cover” and said New Zealand was going to be “part of the killing process.”

The decision to send troops was made following consultation with New Zealand’s main allies in Washington, London and Canberra,

Thanks to whoever moved this thread to the correct location.

EU countries should team up with the USA and Russia and bomb those ****s finally.

What about China Toki? They have one of the biggest militaries in the world.

Thoughts to the victims and their families

Pretty sad that a thread started for condolences to the innocent people caught up in the Paris attacks has turned into nothing more than arguing and conspiracies in less then a page.. Show some respect ffs.

Quote from GAVD999 :

Thoughts to the victims and their families

Pretty sad that a thread started for condolences to the innocent people caught up in the Paris attacks has turned into nothing more than arguing and conspiracies in less then a page.. Show some respect ffs.

I have to agree with you so sorry on my part guys

stay safe peeps

"The New Zealand government regarded# the sinking of the Rainbow Warrior by French agents in 1985 as an act of international terrorism. "

Yeah, but we tend to be a bit more realistic than just changing our farcebook profile pictures.



And France did train ISIS forces so maybe the families may want to know that and take appropriate action ...........

And it could have been worse.

# Two DGSE officers, Dominique Prieur and Alain Mafart, were arrested on 24 July 1985. Both were charged with murder, pleaded guilty to manslaughter and were sentenced to 10 years’ imprisonment. The case was a source of considerable embarrassment to the French government. While the attack was on an international organisation rather than New Zealand itself, most New Zealanders did not make such a distinction. The fact that it was committed on New Zealand territory by a supposed friend produced a sense of outrage and a serious deterioration in relations between New Zealand and France.
France used its influence to threaten New Zealand's access to the important European Economic Community market, and New Zealand exports to France were boycotted. New Zealanders reacted in a similar manner to French imports. Eventually, both countries agreed to allow the United Nations to mediate a settlement.

Almost a year after the bombing, on 8 July 1986, United Nations Secretary-General Javier Perez de Cuellar announced, in a binding decision, that New Zealand would receive an apology and compensation of $13 million from France, which was also ordered not to interfere with New Zealand’s trade negotiations. Dominique Prieur and Alain Mafart were to serve their sentences in full on Hao Atoll in French Polynesia.

In what was seen as the final insult, both prisoners were released early. Alain Marfart returned to France because of ‘illness’ in 1987, while Dominique Prieur was repatriated in May 1988 because she was pregnant.

Both were decorated and promoted upon their return home.

And, if we all REALLY care about innocent victims, then try commenting and caring about these human lives lost !

"A year ago, a report released by the United Nations carefully documented known instances of Islamic State barbarity against Muslims, noting in the first eight months of 2014 Isis was the “primary actor” responsible for the deaths of 9,347 civilians in Iraq.

In September, the International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation (ISCR) released a report based on the testimonies of 58 defectors from the group.

Among the study’s findings was a consistent narrative that Isis was primarily concerned with “sectarian” issues: “one of the most persistent criticisms was the extent to which the group is fighting against other Sunni rebels.”

There are no exact figures available for the number of Muslims killed by Isis, but there have been multiple documented instances of their treatment of fellow Muslims.

In November a video resurfaced showing the execution of around 250 Syrian soldiers, while in October four of the 69 prisoners freed by a US and Kurdish operation spoke of Isis’s treatment of Sunni Muslims.

“They executed him in cold blood,” sobbed one captive as he described his brother’s death at the militants’ hands."

That is from Britains Independent newspaper.

Then of course there is this non story.
And none of you want to address this for some reason.

"A new analysis of the data available to the public about drone strikes, conducted by the human-rights group Reprieve, indicates that even when operators target specific individuals – the most focused effort of what Barack Obama calls “targeted killing” – they kill vastly more people than their targets, often needing to strike multiple times. Attempts to kill 41 men resulted in the deaths of an estimated 1,147 people, as of 24 November 2014."
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/24/-sp-us-drone-strikes-kill-1147

Who cares of the New Zealand government and review the policy that has no place here in this topic.
You should close your big mouth once in a while...

Quote from MrSam :

Who cares of the New Zealand government and review the policy that has no place here in this topic.
You should close your big mouth once in a while...

How can he spread irrelevant conspiracy dribble if he closes his mouth?

More seriously, I find just disrespectful to talk about politics, while we are still under the emotion.

Too much energy in an area. Energy everywhere in the Middle East.

Quote from CardsetCrazy :

Like someone said earlier, we look value of life differently, depending on which country the victims live. USA has probably killed more innocent people in last decades than all terrorist organisations together. USA is actually the main reason why there are groups like ISIS making these attacks. People just don't realise it because they automatically think West is good and East is bad.

I agree, but not completely. There is a lot of truth to this, I think.

Who killed the Most people, it's very stupid too.
Every life is important no matter Where one lives.
Trying to find excuses for these barbarians, disgusted me ...

Respect the topic, or create a new topic with your policy of S..t

Otherwise it is better to close this topic who start to makes me rage.

Quote from MrSam :

Who killed the Most people, it's very stupid too.
Every life is important no matter Where one lives.
Trying to find excuses for these barbarians, disgusted me ...

Respect the topic, or create a new topic with your policy of S..t

Otherwise it is better to close this topic who start to makes me rage.

There is no excuse for what has happened. We seek to analyze what has happened in a hope to prevent it from occurring again. This is part of the process, but we are ready to analyze because we are outsiders. Those more directly effected by the violence may never want to do such things, and that is understandable.

I apologize for angering you in this tough time by quoting older posts. I will be more mindful of others with my future posts on this thread. My thoughts are with those effected.

The message that really needs to be spread is unity. Join together. Embrace your fellow man no matter what your differences. Your enemies grow weaker when bonds are strengthened. Do not forget this.

This applies to all who are reading this.

I'm just upset and I'm sorry. I do not know what to say.
Long live freedom and long live the world!

Is there anything we can try to do for you, Sam?

I just wish peace for all and that we respect the deads and the families.
Not because we are France and that our lives are supposedly more important than others.

Just because it was a carnage for nothing.

Quote from MrSam :

I'm just upset and I'm sorry. I do not know what to say.
Long live freedom and long live the world!

totally understand mate. I cannot find the right words to say but I hope you know that the families of those killed in all our hearts and also my thoughts go out to the whole of france

quote I've seen recently

we are only as strong as we are united - we are only as weak as we are divided

so know that their are so many that with you and the rest of france at this time of mourning

People die in wars, that's why I, as a buddhist, am completely opposed to any violence to any sentient living being.

But burying your head in the sand and changing your profile pic on Farcebook is stupid. If these deaths achieve anything, then let them achieve an end to these banker driven wars. If we don't stop this, then all these millions of people have died just so some people get richer. That's all that these wars are about.

If what I say is 'CONSPIRACY' stuff, then why do these wars keep happening ?

In exactly the same way, for exactly the same banks.

Try to think about why wars REALLY happen, and it certainly isn't because the common people (cannon fodder) want them.

Former managing director of Goldman Sachs – and head of the international analytics group at Bear Stearns in London (Nomi Prins) – notes:

Throughout the century that I examined, which began with the Panic of 1907 … what I found by accessing the archives of each president is that through many events and periods, particular bankers were in constant communication [with the White House] — not just about financial and economic policy, and by extension trade policy, but also about aspects of World War I, or World War II, or the Cold War, in terms of the expansion that America was undergoing as a superpower in the world, politically, buoyed by the financial expansion of the banking community.

In the beginning of World War I, Woodrow Wilson had adopted initially a policy of neutrality. But the Morgan Bank, which was the most powerful bank at the time, and which wound up funding over 75 percent of the financing for the allied forces during World War I … pushed Wilson out of neutrality sooner than he might have done, because of their desire to be involved on one side of the war.

Now, on the other side of that war, for example, was the National City Bank, which, though they worked with Morgan in financing the French and the British, they also didn’t have a problem working with financing some things on the German side, as did Chase …

All Quiet on the Western Front by Erich Maria Remarque

Kropp on the other hand is a thinker. He proposes that a declaration of war should be a kind of popular festival with entrance-tickets and bands, like a bull fight. Then in the arena the ministers and generals of the two countries, dressed in bathing-drawers and armed with clubs, can have it out among themselves. Whoever survives, his country wins. That would be much simpler and more just than this arrangement, where the wrong people do the fighting.

"Then what exactly is the war for?" asks Tjaden.
Kat shrugs his shoulders. "There must be some people to whom the war is useful."
"Well, I'm not one of them," grins Tjaden.
"Not you, nor anybody else here."

"But what I like to know," says Albert, "is whether there would not have been a war if the Kaiser had said No. […] Well, if not him alone, then perhaps if twenty or thirty people in the world had said No."