On the DFGT subject, I wonder if you see the same bug I see with the G27. And do G27 owners get this bug too? The BUG: unplug the wheel's USB before you start LFS. Start LFS, plug in the USB. The wheel does its centering thing and when it is done, I can click "refresh" in LFS to get access to the wheel. All is good but one thing. The wheel only turns 90 degrees each way. The only way to get the full range is by clicking on another window. Suddenly the wheel can turn 900 degrees again and I can click back to LFS and all is OK. This happens regardless of the "input when window is inactive" setting, so it doesn't seem like an LFS bug. I couldn't find any way round this other than doing the window clicking...

What you describe is standard behavior of Logitech wheels.
It needs to do the full rotation in both directions and then you hear a click to set it into operational mode.

I think it's the way the Logitech profiler does its game detection - my G25 doesn't even load the Global settings until I either load a game it knows about or open the profiler window.

If you're wanting some default settings for other wheels, I'm about to test the Thrustmaster T300.
In the meantime for reference, the Thrustmaster T150, T300 & T500 wheels all have 1080 degrees (I have no idea about the T100/T80).

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Right, so the Thrustmaster range is quite complicated because there are several different rims and buttons are labelled/positioned differently.

The various T300s report as "Thrustmaster T300RS Racing Wheel", I assume the T500RS is similar.

The following seem to be the same for all T300/T500 rims:

Quote from Scawen :

The wheel only turns 90 degrees each way.

Yes,I got the same behaviour. Was wondering why it's like that,so I always opened settings window of wheel,closing it without editing,set the wheel back to whatever setting I had there. When pluging wheel before launching LFS,usually it had the preset lock,but sometimes (no idea for what reason) I had the same 90° lock problem,which always was solved by opening and then closing settings.

Thanks for the info. I'll be working tomorrow and will try some Thrustmaster presets.

Thank you everyone for the testing. It is a great help.

I could do a little better with multiple controller setups, with a small change. If I put the wheel device at the top of the list, followed by game pads, and put "unknown controller" further down the list, then it could do the standard automatic setup on the wheel or game pad. So e.g. Cargame's setup would automatically be reasonable for the DFGT wheel and he would then just have to set up the axes on his external pedals and some preferred buttons.

So what I'm saying is it should prioritise them a better and do the auto setup on the first device in the list. It can ignore the other devices as it really wouldn't know what to do with them.

Quote from T3charmy :

Since we're working on the controller, Would it be possible we could add something for the steering axis similar to what you can do with keyboard(steer rate/return rate) for those of us playing with handheld controllers such as PS4, Xbox controllers.

I think this goes a bit further than what I can get into this week. I feel time is short because we need a full version up there that supports the new Rift. Many people can't or don't want to install a test patch so I think we need to go for a full version next weekend.

Quote from T3charmy :

Edit 2: and if possible on top of the first point(which at that alone would be very much appreciated!), possibly add it to where we are able to adjust the multiplier/sensitivity for all axes not just the steering. kind of like how Mouse X and Mouse Y work where you're able to.

This sounds a bit like the existing "Thr / brk centre reduction" option.

Quote from T3charmy :

Another thing that could be useful would be to map the right joystick to being the look heading, but being able to set a limit for it, like all the way left is 90, all the way right is 90, and pressing the joystick down would be look behind

I thought some more about this, and I'm not sure if this is just obvious or not (maybe is how it is in other games, I don't know) but I thought the two axes of the right stick could be useful to make a full 360 degree look system.

How it could work :

- X and Y axes are assigned
- A new "joystick" look function (probably default)
- Centre dead zone, nothing happens up to around 25% movement
- Moving stick to the edge in any direction will look that way
- Moving stick partially will provide an intermediate position

This way, moving the stick left or right would look 90 degrees left and right. You could look more forward or back from that position by moving the stick forward or back. I think you could quite quickly or smoothly look in any direction you wanted to. I haven't tried it yet but it seems the combined use of two axes to control look heading in this way could work well.

Quote from Scawen :

How it could work :

- X and Y axes are assigned
- A new "joystick" look function (probably default)
- Centre dead zone, nothing happens up to around 25% movement
- Moving stick to the edge in any direction will look that way
- Moving stick partially will provide an intermediate position

Forza (at least 3 and 4) works like this:
If you move the joystick left/right on X axis it turns the camera 90º and have plenty of "dead" zone so the camera doesn't move.
If you move the joystick any other direction it turns the camera the same angle of the joystick.

Quote from Scawen :

I think this goes a bit further than what I can get into this week. I feel time is short because we need a full version up there that supports the new Rift. Many people can't or don't want to install a test patch so I think we need to go for a full version next weekend.

Totally understand that. I'm fine with it not being added right this second, but having this functionality in the future would certainly improve the driving experience and bring it more inline with other racing/driving games.

Quote from Scawen :

This sounds a bit like the existing "Thr / brk centre reduction" option.

Perhaps. I'll look at that more, though my original thought wouldn't be needed if the below was implemented.

Quote from Scawen :

I thought some more about this, and I'm not sure if this is just obvious or not (maybe is how it is in other games, I don't know) but I thought the two axes of the right stick could be useful to make a full 360 degree look system.

How it could work :

- X and Y axes are assigned
- A new "joystick" look function (probably default)
- Centre dead zone, nothing happens up to around 25% movement
- Moving stick to the edge in any direction will look that way
- Moving stick partially will provide an intermediate position

This way, moving the stick left or right would look 90 degrees left and right. You could look more forward or back from that position by moving the stick forward or back. I think you could quite quickly or smoothly look in any direction you wanted to. I haven't tried it yet but it seems the combined use of two axes to control look heading in this way could work well.

The idea sounds really good assuming I'm understanding it correctly. I feel like having this would make shoulder checks and that kind of stuff a little more natural for those not actually using a VR headset but are using a controller.

This is happening because "profiler" doesn't apply the (game/global)settings until you focus into the window. So as you plug the wheel and the game is already in focus it won't load the new settings.

If you could re-focus the game once a new control is plugged-in, i guess this could fix it.

I've been on the case, making various improvements.

One thing: As I knew the axis calibration system was a bit annoying and usually forgets calibrations (e.g. if you ever started without your wheel connected) I started to try and code it so it saved a separate calibration setup per controller file. I ran into a little difficulty because of the way it was coded. Then I thought, why not just delete the calibration system? I am thinking that the wheel / gamepad / joystick / pedal manufacturers probably do calibration, so there is no need for the extra annoying calibration code in LFS.

So now I've commented it out of existence and it just assumes the full pedal range is available from the outset. So you don't have to move all axes to their full extent or click calibration lock.

Thought I'd better run this by you first, in case I'm missing something. In short, my general thought is that may be code that was needed in the past but is just a little annoying now.

Updates so far (in my version) :

Combined brake / throttle axis now defaults to correct direction
Controllers with 5 axes now default to combined brake / throttle
Automatically set Clutch setting to axis if wheel has clutch pedal
Automatic preset is now attempted on first of multiple controllers
Arrow keys can now be assigned to wheel buttons (default D-pad)
Default 900 degrees turn for Logitech G25 / G27 / Driving Force
Attempted sensible presets for Thrustmaster steering wheels
Removed axis calibration system that didn't work well

Sounds great. A little suggestion. Would it be possible to add F# keys to the controller section and make them able to bind in addition of ctrl+F# and alt+F#?

Quote from Scawen :

And do G27 owners get this bug too? The BUG: unplug the wheel's USB before you start LFS. Start LFS, plug in the USB. The wheel does its centering thing and when it is done, I can click "refresh" in LFS to get access to the wheel. All is good but one thing. The wheel only turns 90 degrees each way. The only way to get the full range is by clicking on another window. Suddenly the wheel can turn 900 degrees again and I can click back to LFS and all is OK.

I do not remember having had such "90 degrees each way" bug.

I tested to unplug wheel and start LFS and then plug in. On Win 7 64bit, G27, LFS 0.6N
Result was that the wheel was "fixed" to center position - basically 0° rotation. Going to desktop and back did not change it.
After pressing shift+C the rotation was working again with 720° (as I had currently set in logitech profiler)
However all buttons were set to "none" in options.
Restarted LFS and everything was okay again. (all buttons worked, rotation okay)

Bit related, after years I am still not sure I understand how to setup wheel rotation degrees.
There is three places to set it:
1) In logitech software
2) In LFS, options menu
3) In LFS, setup screen "controller wheel turn"
When I adjust rotation (going from roadcar to formular etc) I always set it in all places 'just to be sure.'

Quote from Gutholz :

However all buttons were set to "none" in options.
Restarted LFS and everything was okay again. (all buttons worked, rotation okay)

In N3 there is a refresh button on controller setup screen so you should never need to restart LFS any more for controllers.

Quote from Gutholz :

When I adjust rotation (going from roadcar to formular etc) I always set it in all places 'just to be sure.'

You don't need to do that, because LFS does that automatically.

Set it like this:

Logitech settings : 900
LFS "Wheel Turn" : 900 <-- This must match the game controller's wheel turn!
LFS "Wheel Turn compensation" : 1.0

Now don't change anything at all when you change car. You will find the wheel turns exactly the same as the in-game car wheel, regardless of which car you drive. That's the easy way.

Of course, Logitech driver will then not stop your wheel turning past the limit of the in-game car. For me that's no problem. But if you want your wheel to hit the stoppers then you'll have to change it in Logitech settings and LFS "Wheel turn" to match.

Quote from Scawen :

Of course, Logitech driver will then not stop your wheel turning past the limit of the in-game car. For me that's no problem. But if you want your wheel to hit the stoppers then you'll have to change it in Logitech settings and LFS "Wheel turn" to match.

Speaking of, how hard would it be for LFS to implement a soft stop instead of freely spinning past the car's limit?
I know some other games do it and it's quite helpful to have the soft stops while spinning wildly out of control


I'll test the Thrustmaster defaults tomorrow.

Quote from Degats :

Speaking of, how hard would it be for LFS to implement a soft stop instead of freely spinning past the car's limit?
I know some other games do it and it's quite helpful to have the soft stops while spinning wildly out of control

YES PLEASE!

Ideally it would set the degrees of rotation thought Logitech's API, but I still remember Scawen angry at Logitech for not providing any help on that matter years ago, so I understand why LFS doesn't have it

Quote from Degats :

SI'll test the Thrustmaster defaults tomorrow.

I'll try to release N4 tomorrow afternoon so you can test them.

Is everyone OK about losing the calibration thing?

A few posts above: https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1906954#post1906954

I never used calibrating in lfs But now I have a feeling things get changed that i don't want do I need too test?

btw G27 here

I see no downsides to losing calibration. Degats' idea would be nice to have, Linux users already have it through a script.

..

Quote from cargame.nl :

Well.. I have no clue. I have the let's see what happens approach on this.

Same here, if you release a test patch without it and all my devices are still working fine, then I assume it could be deleted.

I do recalibrate my wheel now and then in lfs, not really sure if I need to.

What bugs me about using Logitech wheels in LFS is when other people play on my system a lot of the time they start driving with the wheel upside down in the game, but right side up in reality. Usually this is due to the wheel just being rotated 360, it looks like it is right side up but its not... the end points seem to stop working after a while. It needs to find the center when it re-centers better...


I am still trying to run multiple instances of LFS games on ONE server, without using VM ware. When you have multiple wheels plugged in, it is confusing to configure them. Because you have to select each axis individually, it would be nice to just pick a "device" and have that instance of LFS use it. Preferably when the game loads. Same thing with SOUND Out Put devicse.

What will ditching the calibration do when multiple wheels are plugged in?

I only have 3 wheels right now, but I can test it with 3 wheels, and maybe buy the rest soon. Eventually I want to have up to 12 players or even more possible on this server, and sound and wheels selection is the only thing keeping it from working.

Also, I need a /SPEC_ALL command
I really need to learn how to use insim... where is a tutorial?

Quote from Degats :

Speaking of, how hard would it be for LFS to implement a soft stop instead of freely spinning past the car's limit?
I know some other games do it and it's quite helpful to have the soft stops while spinning wildly out of control.

+1 from me as well.

This is the reason I dont run LFS in 900 degrees - I find it annoying as you can get to the point where turning the controller has no effect in game.

If maximum opposite force was applied whenever controller turn exceeded maximum lock for that car that would do it.

(Thanks all the great work Scawen - I don't post very often)

Quote from Scawen :

Is everyone OK about losing the calibration thing?

Back on topic (sorry for the feature request ):-

I have a G27 with a load cell brake mod - I have previously used the calibration in LFS to limit the axis to a realistic pressure range. I am currently using a tweaker in Windows to achieve the same effect so is no longer an issue for me.

I would avoid removing options as "configurabilty" is one of the great things about LFS.

Quote from teeembo :

This is the reason I dont run LFS in 900 degrees - I find it annoying as you can get to the point where turning the controller has no effect in game.

That's a bit of BS, don't you think? Set "Wheel turn compensation" to zero and there you go. LFS works fine with 900 degrees, you just miss the wheel being in sync.