Quote from danielroelofs :

I dont know much about Katrina and in fact that's also not too interesting. Whatever those rednecks have done with the money (nice way of controlling government expenses btw.. but i dont think anybody would think thats wel regulated in there). In a well working country, area or whatevery.. a country might have interest in a well olied society and infrastructure. This is simply because when it doesn't run efficiently it will cost money instead of generating an income. An indiviual doesnt mean shit to your state.. not anything different here, but especially not in the usa, the thing is that you just may not find out that easily. Luckily most ppl are very dumb and naive and they are kept that way due to many things.

But let me tell you, if this would have happened to the New York area or california.. or where your moneymaking, export, producing, important export/import infrastructure might be located (harbors e.g.)... I bet you it would have had much more attention than it had now (Regardless what they might have done with previous funding)

Two things...


Where are you getting this crap and what does it have to do with no trucks in Europe? ... Dumb and naive... yeah, with the freedom to go pretty much wherever we want, the fact we are fighting off obesity instead of starvation. And we have access to 600 zillion channels without a damned thing worth watching. Yeah. We've got it so bad here. We're just a bunch of knuckle dragging simpletons - kicking up a mission to Mars. Yeah I guess it's a good thing we're very dumb and naive and not as Brilliant or worldly as you dude. No telling how screwed we'd be.
If you wanna hear ragging on America, instead hashing and rehashing the same old crap based on copy and paste left winger ranting. You should listen to real Americans and what we complain about... and what we're going to be complaining about in the near future. But something tells me you're going to be having enough fun in your little well regulated (over regulated?) little nation to worrying about the bad ol US of A.

..."But let me tell you, if this would have happened to the New York area or california.. or where your moneymaking, export, producing, important export/import infrastructure might be located (harbors e.g.)... I bet you it would have had much more attention than it had now (Regardless what they might have done with previous funding)"

You mean like when Hurricane Sandy hit? When we got hit by Ike, another Hurricane you didn't hear about, we didn't get all the attention that was given to the Katrina or Sandy storms. Was it because we're insignificant little numbers to the big machine? LOL where do you get this? No. It was because we know how to deal with Hurricanes. We were without power here for almost a month. You didn't see us shooting at rescue copters like with Katrina. You didn't see us whining for someone to blame like with Sandy. You saw us wait til it ended and make the most with what we had.
You're right though. If something happens to the gold states, you'll see much more attention given to them.
I think it has more to do with celebrity and political types all living in those places. The squeaky wheel gets the grease and they squeak a lot. The money? The real money is inland. All teh crap in NY City is just digital and stuff to fill the ATM machines with.
The funny thing about us and hurricanes are no matter how much we've geared up to minimalize the effects from these storms, we have an Achilles' Tendon. If a force 3 hurricane or higher gets into Galveston Bay without hitting Galveston Island and then the coast, the storm surge would be enough to go into all those chemical tanks up and down the Houston Ship Channel. They are rated to withstand a 15 foot surge. But a force 3 with the eye not blocked by land would override that. Maybe a 21 foot surge. You don't have to translate feet to metres, just realize than anything over 15 means destruction an a biblical scale.
If that were to ever happen it wouldn't just screw us up either. It would help the world on to the colossal cluster F*ck it seems to want to go towards. I guarantee you that there is at least one thing in your house that is made with something that came from one of those places. Google Earth Galveston Bay, visualize all that stuff under water. While you're gloating over how bad that must be for us dumb ingnert Americans, realize a big chunk of a lot crap you want, wont be happening anymore.
Oh. and a truck really came in handy then too.

..

Quote from cargame.nl :

That you think it's 'handy' doesn't mean the world share this view. You could rate it as 'arrogant' if you think like that. At least the topic title would suggest such a thing. Like there is something wrong by disliking a crappy 'car'. I go to Hamburg now to pickup ( ) some electronics. Two hour drive. Wouldn't have done that if somebody would forced me to use a pickup truck for driving. The horror!

Thank You! THat's the point I've been trying to make all along. That you got bass ackwards is close enough.

That you think it's 'handy' doesn't mean the world share this view.
That's just it, the "world" DOES share that view. You do not. I don't mean you personally. You don't like trucks. I get that. You probably don't do much that would involve driving one, much less owning one.
I never understood those folks that buy a truck - and treat it like a sports sedan.
So yeah, I don't think you need to run out and buy a truck because of all the uses I have found for it.
You probably don't do anything near like what I do. But the whole continent?
Are you trying to say every last European from all those countries are just like you and live in such a way to where at least a few of them couldn't benefit by having such a vehicle? How the hell does that work?

...it as 'arrogant' if you think like that. I'm sure you can say your continent is being arrogant for not doing as the rest of the planet if you want to, but that really wouldn't justify the phenomenon, now would it?

Quote from Racer Y :

Thank You! THat's the point I've been trying to make all along. That you got bass ackwards is close enough.

That you think it's 'handy' doesn't mean the world share this view.
That's just it, the "world" DOES share that view. You do not. I don't mean you personally. You don't like trucks. I get that. You probably don't do much that would involve driving one, much less owning one.
I never understood those folks that buy a truck - and treat it like a sports sedan.
So yeah, I don't think you need to run out and buy a truck because of all the uses I have found for it.
You probably don't do anything near like what I do. But the whole continent?
Are you trying to say every last European from all those countries are just like you and live in such a way to where at least a few of them couldn't benefit by having such a vehicle? How the hell does that work?

...it as 'arrogant' if you think like that. I'm sure you can say your continent is being arrogant for not doing as the rest of the planet if you want to, but that really wouldn't justify the phenomenon, now would it?

You have to accept that most Europeans have a certain opinion of the US...
I will never have a regular use for a pick up....I live in and around rural areas where people use rubbish like the Mitsubishi L200...but if I need to move stuff then I borrow/hire a van....simples.

There's a simple reason most of europe doesn't need pickup trucks: infrastructure.

Europe is much more densely populated than the US, thus we both have proper roads and we do not need to carry large amounts of goods or materials very frequently, because we can get everything close by.

To try to prove my claim, just look at US cities. I bet you people living in larger metropoitan areas in the US also are less likely to own a pickup truck than people in more rural areas.

Two minor points also facturing in: gas prices are lot higher here, so we tend to drive vehicles that are a bit more economical. And the goods we need to haul usually need to stay dry. So a vehicle with a roof offers both offers protection from the weather, improves aerodynamics (for economical hauling) and the have the bonus of a lower loading lip, increasing the available volume.

Quote from ColeusRattus :

There's a simple reason most of europe doesn't need pickup trucks: infrastructure.

Europe is much more densely populated than the US, thus we both have proper roads and we do not need to carry large amounts of goods or materials very frequently, because we can get everything close by.

To try to prove my claim, just look at US cities. I bet you people living in larger metropoitan areas in the US also are less likely to own a pickup truck than people in more rural areas.

Two minor points also facturing in: gas prices are lot higher here, so we tend to drive vehicles that are a bit more economical. And the goods we need to haul usually need to stay dry. So a vehicle with a roof offers both offers protection from the weather, improves aerodynamics (for economical hauling) and the have the bonus of a lower loading lip, increasing the available volume.

Why didn't you post this sooner?
Yeah. You don't see many trucks in East Coast cities here for that reason. In fact, some of those folks don't even have a car or know how to drive one. To all of us West of the Mississippi River, that's almost like a death sentence. You can fit three or four New York Cities in Houston city limits. Yet they have zillions more people.
"Europe is much more densely populated than the US"....
That makes more sense. In Europe, a 130km drive is considered a road trip. Here? a daily work commute.
The density enables you to take smaller trips, just getting what you need for a shorter time. Here, in places you sometimes need to stock up as much as possible.
Rain.... on average, does it rain more in Western Europe than Canada, US and Mexico? LOL Rain sucks for pick up trucks. You could put a camper over the bed, but then it'd pretty much be a van.
My Suburban is kinda like that. And yeah.... it slurps gas.
Anyways, thanks for the post.

You're welcome

Quote from Racer X NZ :

Your wrong there sorry, Al Quaeda use Toyota Hilux's,
provided by America,
(In April the US State Department resumed sending non-lethal aid to Syrian rebels recently and the delivery included 43 Toyota trucks.)
but to disguise the issue, in America, to quote wikipedia, 'Most countries used the Hilux name for the entire life of the series but in North America, the Hilux name was retired in 1976 in favor of Truck, Pickup Truck, or Compact Truck.'

So, terrorists use US provided Hilux's but the Hilux is not a Pickup, it's a Ute. Unless your in America, when it's a Truck, Pickup Truck or Compact Truck.

Therefore, provided you are not a US based ISIS/Al Queda/CIA terrorist you actually use a US provided Ute, not a Pickup. This is to stop the media thinking the US govt is providing pickups to ISIS, as they are clearly not.

I hope this cleared that up for everyone..........

CHRIST SAKE. You're*

..

Your welcomes

Quote from cargame.nl :

Ehhmm .. I counted seven pickups during my 2x 2 hour trip. Two of them Dodge Ram ... Isn't that enough? Maybe your perspective is a bit wrong, not everything can be seen from a computer monitor you know.

Now how to get rid of this attention to pickups I wonder. It's now in my head when I drive somewhere, thanks :[

And it's not that I don't like those things, I don't care.. If people want to buy it, go ahead.. One of my friends -also LFS active- bought a Ford extended something.. It's more like a tank.. They are happy with it, but I don't see the point. It's for the dogs they said. Hmm OK..

edit: oh a Ford F350 it is.

ROFL
I'm sorry. I didn't mean to get the stupid idea stuck in your head...LOL
I'm trying to picture drive down the road, looking for trucks and thinking, "!*&^$$$ Racer Y!!!"

Consider yourslf lucky.
We have these "truck" clubs around here. Some of them are street versions of those racing Utes.
They put the name of their club in vinyl on the back window. Usually something stupid and mis-spelled. They drive like idiots and if you consider what they threw into to the truck money wise and consider they basically killed off any real use out of the vehicle besides going fast, they could've bought a Maserati.
and had money for gas.

"Now how to get rid of this attention to pickups I wonder. It's now in my head when I drive somewhere, thanks :["
LOLOLOLOLOL

Quote from Racer Y :

We have these "truck" clubs around here. Some of them are street versions of those racing Utes.
They put the name of their club in vinyl on the back window. Usually something stupid and mis-spelled. They drive like idiots and if you consider what they threw into to the truck money wise and consider they basically killed off any real use out of the vehicle besides going fast, they could've bought a Maserati.
and had money for gas.

I don't know what trucks you're referring to, but the cheaper Maseratis aren't that great for the price. A mid-2000's Maserati Coupe still costs $15,000-$20,000.

Quote from wheel4hummer :

I don't know what trucks you're referring to, but the cheaper Maseratis aren't that great for the price. A mid-2000's Maserati Coupe still costs $15,000-$20,000.

Oh then I shoulda picked a more expensive car to compare to. Some of these kids convert a $2000 bucket of rust into 60k worth of motor, paint, interior and sound system.

USA !, USA !, USA !.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMsrjeny5pE&ab_channel=MotorTrendChannel


In NZ, our army just use THE Euro Pickup...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1UfJ6Cgz7g&ab_channel=edis23



Yes, Europe builds a Kickass Pickup. (Well, Germany anyway)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSA2OOA_BvI&ab_channel=MrMPZVIDEO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7GNqKdgZiI&ab_channel=edis23#t=10.740125

Quote from Racer X NZ :

Yes, Europe builds a Kickass Pickup. (Well, Germany anyway)

If Unimogs are pickup trucks, then so is this:

You know..... You know why BMWs are popular cars in the US? No. Not because its a good car. It is a pretty good car (as long as you don't have to work on it) but that's not the reason. No. The reason is because of it's use in a couple of movies during the early 1980's. Hollywood expanded on this with the concept of "product placement" in it's movies.
Producers did that as a way to cover the production costs of the movies.
If Fiat and GM is serious about wanting to market Trucks in Western Europe, they may want to look into that. Help finance a couple of local TV show episodes... ones that will show the Truck in positive light. Not a dominating feature of the show though. No something subtle. Just something in the background. Just enough for the viewer to take notice. It worked wonders for Dr Pepper in the 90's.
Yeah. If I had something to do with it, I'd go that route. Plus, I'd go a step further and hit a target demographic: Women. Yes women. Well not as being the actual operator of said vehicle, but as a strong supporter of the family getting the vehicle. I don't know how many times I've heard women say they wanted to get their husbands a truck. They don't want the husband to have the truck because he'd look cool driving one. She wants that so she can have him. a big empty bed and a whole weekend to get him and that bed to do whatever it is she wants done. I would also go regional if I could. Like there probably isn't going to be a market for one in Berlin, but maybe in Hemer? I don't think I'd push sport trucks too much. Or the really big extended cab monsters for obvious reasons,
But I wouldn't try to sell utility models.

..

I really can't see it making a difference Racer Y, Ford have only just started trying to sell the Mustang over here never mind trucks lol.

Quote from GAVD999 :

I really can't see it making a difference Racer Y, Ford have only just started trying to sell the Mustang over here never mind trucks lol.

Yeah. It might not. But you do realize that in this day and age that there are people that specialize in creating markets where there are none. Sure a pick up is a different product than say diet soda or a clothing line, but the same principles apply. And I wouldn't be surprised that tactics I brought up plus many more were utilized to bring this about.
Isn't that crazy? No market? No problem! just make one up! There's all sorts of books and courses that teaches how to do just that.

@cargame... Why do you think think the Extended cab models came about?
You really don't know how close you came to hitting the nail on the head again, do you?
LOL you're a natural. Ford needs to get a hold of you.

Years ago a study was done on car sales. This study was trying to find out who bought what car and why.

The consumer that was more likely to have practical notions of buying a car was a woman. They asked the important questions about a car. They were concerned with gas mileage, dependability, maintenance and stuff like that.
The male consumer? They tended to be more concerned with how fast the car went, what colors it came in and what kind of stereo was in it.

And I think the only hope to get pick up sales in Europe is to promote its practical side instead of showing some four wheeled monolith with flat screen TVs for the backseat passengers.
Wait a minute....
Too bad we don't have SKYPE, then you could see the light bulb go off over my head.
If Fiat and GM want to get an established market for the truck they want to sell, there's a whole big block of people they stand a good chance of succeeding with. Immigrants from N.Africa and the Middle East.
These folks like trucks too. And not just ISIS types either. Farmers, Skilled Laborers, small merchants.

You know... Al i really was doing when I started this thread was musing about an observation I had. That's it. Now three pages into it, I'm obsessed with trying to market a product where there's no market for it. And poor ol Cargame is having nightmares about being chased by ISIS members driving Bigfoot and Grave Digger, blaring Tejano music and waving rebel flags.

Yeah. The title of this thread and the first paragraph of the first post was meant to be nothing more than
my typical sarcastic nonsense. In fact, the first paragraph was a reflection of pretty much what you'll hear on the news networks of FOX, CNN, The BBC and AlJazeera about Western Europe, the whole EU thing in particular, when they get tired of discussing Donald Trump. It was something to make what I thought was going to be a boring question a little bit more interesting.
But not now. This Sh!t's for real.
Ok. I'm still being sarcastic there too, but still. This subject has become quite ponderous.

Quote from Racer Y :

Yeah. It might not. But you do realize that in this day and age that there are people that specialize in creating markets where there are none. Sure a pick up is a different product than say diet soda or a clothing line, but the same principles apply. And I wouldn't be surprised that tactics I brought up plus many more were utilized to bring this about.
Isn't that crazy? No market? No problem! just make one up! There's all sorts of books and courses that teaches how to do just that.

I know what you are saying Racer Y but do you not think all the American truck companies have researched the exact thing you are talking about. Do you not think if Ford, Dodge or who ever thought they could make money bringing them over and selling them they already would be doing so?

As has already been discussed, there is no market, well ok there probably is but it would such a niche market it would not be worth the hassle of setting up everything they need over here, not just importing trucks but supplying parts, training mechanics & sales on them, right hand drive conversions etc, not to mention the cost of marketing them. Even then there is no guarantee they will sell many.

As said nothing against American pick ups, quite like some of them, I just can't see them fitting in on UK roads. Plus as both Dodge and Chrysler have both pulled out of selling cars now in the uk I really can't see any other companies taking the gamble, other than Ford maybe.

Quote from GAVD999 :

I know what you are saying Racer Y but do you not think all the American truck companies have researched the exact thing you are talking about. Do you not think if Ford, Dodge or who ever thought they could make money bringing them over and selling them they already would be doing so?

As has already been discussed, there is no market, well ok there probably is but it would such a niche market it would not be worth the hassle of setting up everything they need over here, not just importing trucks but supplying parts, training mechanics & sales on them, right hand drive conversions etc, not to mention the cost of marketing them. Even then there is no guarantee they will sell many.

As said nothing against American pick ups, quite like some of them, I just can't see them fitting in on UK roads. Plus as both Dodge and Chrysler have both pulled out of selling cars now in the uk I really can't see any other companies taking the gamble, other than Ford maybe.

The only vehicles Chrysler makes that are halfway decent are HUGE. I wouldn't think they'd be very successful over there.
And I don't think American and Japanese makers have seriously considered marketing Trucks in the UK and Europe cause they're happy to just be able to get cars sold. This latest attempt from GM/Fiat might be the right one. Or it may fall flat on it's face. They're going to have to be as aggressive in marketing that truck as they were in marketing that little 300 scorpion car they've had success here with doing so.

We don't need your pickup trucks, coz we hav dis:

Quote from Racer Y :

The only vehicles Chrysler makes that are halfway decent are HUGE. I wouldn't think they'd be very successful over there.
And I don't think American and Japanese makers have seriously considered marketing Trucks in the UK and Europe cause they're happy to just be able to get cars sold. This latest attempt from GM/Fiat might be the right one. Or it may fall flat on it's face. They're going to have to be as aggressive in marketing that truck as they were in marketing that little 300 scorpion car they've had success here with doing so.

That may be true in America but I don't think we got the full range you guys have. Instead we had the Neon, Crossfire, Voyager and PT Cruiser plus some rebranded euro box crap with a USA badge on it. Similar with Dodge I think all we had over here was the dodge Caliber. That is what I'm trying to say, they won't even send us big engined American cars here never mind trucks. The only exception being the 5.0 Mustang and that is literally only just being released, although it seems to be doing well as there is a waiting list for new orders.

GM DOES include Holden !!!!

...... There are two simple reasons here: the US-Australian dollar exchange rate is abominable as far as exports are concerned, and there is likely little to no demand for a very pricey product that is neither fish nor fowl. Who is going to pay $50k for Corvette powered pseudo-pickup wearing a Chevrolet badge. Did we discuss the UAW’s reaction to an Australian built pickup, or the whole “cannibalizing GM’s new ‘lifestyle pickup’ thing “either? Both of those matter, but would require their own articles to really get into.

One thing that is not a factor is the chicken tax. Not long ago, Holden used the chicken tax as an excuse for why it’s been unable to export Utes to America. TTAC commenters soon produced plenty of evidence showing that Australian cars and “light commercial vehicles” (i.e. pickups and Utes) can be brought to America duty free. So that excuse is out. I feel for Holden though. The Australian domestic car industry is going down the tubes, their signature product is about to become just another boring front-drive appliance and all they want to do is send some good product to world markets.

The problem is nobody wants it. No matter how loud the internet cries out for it.



What a bunch of losers....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg0qyKTOczk&ab_channel=Holden

Holden VF Ute Vs The Nürburgring -- World record lap
The experts said we should be happy with 8 mins 40 secs. We hoped for 8 mins 30secs. See how we set the world record lap for a utility, pick up or any other commercial vehicle.

Think VF Ute. Think Holden.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

GM DOES include Holden !!!!

...... There are two simple reasons here: the US-Australian dollar exchange rate is abominable as far as exports are concerned, and there is likely little to no demand for a very pricey product that is neither fish nor fowl. Who is going to pay $50k for Corvette powered pseudo-pickup wearing a Chevrolet badge. Did we discuss the UAW’s reaction to an Australian built pickup, or the whole “cannibalizing GM’s new ‘lifestyle pickup’ thing “either? Both of those matter, but would require their own articles to really get into.

One thing that is not a factor is the chicken tax. Not long ago, Holden used the chicken tax as an excuse for why it’s been unable to export Utes to America. TTAC commenters soon produced plenty of evidence showing that Australian cars and “light commercial vehicles” (i.e. pickups and Utes) can be brought to America duty free. So that excuse is out. I feel for Holden though. The Australian domestic car industry is going down the tubes, their signature product is about to become just another boring front-drive appliance and all they want to do is send some good product to world markets.

The problem is nobody wants it. No matter how loud the internet cries out for it.



What a bunch of losers....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg0qyKTOczk&ab_channel=Holden

Holden VF Ute Vs The Nürburgring -- World record lap
The experts said we should be happy with 8 mins 40 secs. We hoped for 8 mins 30secs. See how we set the world record lap for a utility, pick up or any other commercial vehicle.

Think VF Ute. Think Holden.

It looks like a cross between an El Camino and a standard pick-up truck to me.

@Gavin:
Wow.... No wonder. I don't like any of those models. Especially the neon. Thanks to a Top Gear rerun, I thought Chrysler was trying to sell those 300 cars (the Hoodmobile) and Challengers and Chargers in the UK.
LOL the best "dodge" you can get in the UK is the old Jensen Interceptor. All the ones (like two) I've seen had 440 hemis.

"Who is going to pay $50k for Corvette powered pseudo-pickup wearing a Chevrolet badge"
In the 1990's Chevy did just that. They billed it as the worlds fastest production pick up. It wasn't cheap, but it didn't have that big of a price tag. I think it had a limited run and not that many buyers.