in those cases, drifting (ie powerdriving/powersliding not sure how its called) is only one of the techniques (left foot braking, flicking, handbrake, etcetcetc) used to go fast.

it can be used in tarmac too, but it is not so much drifting as a very very slight oversteer to take a corner faster than it is possible to take without losing traction at all.

I have a suggestions about the "point to point" necessarity about mountain tracks. They wouldn't actually have to be point to point tracks, make a cone at the top and bottom of the track which you would go around 180 degrees. That way you would be going uphill and downhill for so called "laps". I would seriously love LFS to have a proper touge. But sad to say that I'm 90% certain that we will never get one. You could go on saying that after S3 there will be mod tools released, but I can't think of any 3rd person to make a track with such detail and commitment as Eric. Who would want to drive on a badly modelled and textured mountain track made by an amateur modder? I wouldn't.

When LFS is getting closer to the point of final version (if that will ever come), it would be nice to see a voting where there are options about what kind of cars and tracks people would want to the so called LFS final. That way we wouldn't really even need modding tools to be released. Sure it would be a bit more work for the devs at that time, but it would be certain that there wouldn't be any low quality 3rd party addons out there.

I'm not talking about hundreds of addon cars and tracks, let's just say that there would be ~10-15 cars (pre-voted by the community) and 5-7 tracks (pre-voted by the community). From those there would be a final voting for let's say 5 cars and 2-4 tracks to be added to the LFS final by the devs. That way the majority of the community would get what they want, and LFS would still have its high quality gameplay remain intact.

I guess I got carried away in my post again.

My point exactly. It's all about relatively small and controlled drift angles to improve turn in and exit.

Relatively small angles? Are you a speed drifter? Thought so.illepall

Quote from m374llic4 :

To be perfectly honest with you, touge is what I am more after, not D1 point style drifting. and yes, touge is racing. D1 style drifting is not. There is a winner in touge based on speed, but drifting is applied to help around the turns in order to keep speed up.

so you are saying that sliding your car is faster than taking a turn in a regular way, without over or understeer? oh come on...

plus touge is a different kind of racing, but it doesn't include drifting. and drifting on winding roads is not something like touge.


drifting is nice, and i try it sometimes. . . but LFS and the devs are more (imho) into real racing (grip racing, gripping, ya-da ya-da... ), so why on earth are you still arguing about this?

what is a "speed drifter" ? is it supposed to be "bad" or "crazy" (illepall)? All i know is that some turns can be taken faster when slightly oversteering.

or are you going to call wrc drivers "speed drifters illepall" too?

Yep. Speed drifting is about maximizing use of the tire's grip, not going sideways just to impress your GF or judeges or whoever. Speed drifting is just a natural result of going as fast as your tires and chasis allows as dictated by physical laws. Try some WRC style driving on a gravel track and see what my true definition of drifting means.

BTW, Nuvolari was known to be extraordinarily fast at his time due to his mastery of 4-wheel drifting, whereby he'll turn in earlier than a purely grip-style driver would and exit much faster than everyone else. In his era of overpowered and undertired cars, it ws the fastest way to drive. If only I could find some video footage of his driving...

To go as fast as possible around a circuit requires maximum use of the tire's grip. Contrary to popular belief, static friction isn't the greatest. The greatest grip comes only when the tires are drifting slightly (a few degrees, tyre and surface dependant), just before they completely let go(sliding friction). That's why small angle drifts produce ultimate speed. If you stay completely within the non-drift envelop, you'll never squeeze every last bit out of the tires.

Showoff style-drifters, see the light and see what TRUE DRIFTING is all about! If Nuvolari was alive today, he would have puked at what a complete mockery drifiting has become today. Burning rear tires for the sake of entertaining todays increasingly ignorant and overpriviledged rich kids? What a waste.

Quote from m374llic4 :

Exactly. Its not like I want "dryft tyres!!11 and nawss!!!" Just a mountian run. How long would it possably take to map a course like that? Not long. I have made many maps for many other games, and its not a huge project that takes months and months.

I do track models for a living on a different racing sim and I'd say it's not a small task to just throw together a new track like that if it's going to be of the same quality as the rest of the LFS tracks.

Quote from wheel4hummer :

I started drifting. But, I figured something out. If I can slide my car at a greater angle sideways on purpose while drifting and recover, then when I am racing I can recover from accidental oversteer easier.

I agree, drifting can be a nice way to learn more car control

Quote from Blowtus :

NFS does racing too, why bother with LFS?

Because LFS is more 'real'...?

Quote from m374llic4 :

To be perfectly honest with you, touge is what I am more after, not D1 point style drifting. and yes, touge is racing. D1 style drifting is not. There is a winner in touge based on speed, but drifting is applied to help around the turns in order to keep speed up.

Okay, why didn't somebody say "Touge" then? Touge and drifting are two different things. Touge is proper racing. The fact they drift is to maintain speed. Why does touge have to be done on a mountain? That style of racing has been used since the massive Auto Union of way back when. (30s?) Up until (and even after) F1 cars had wings, 4 wheel drifts were the only way to drive those tin cans wih wheels (God I love those things! ). 4 wheel drifts are used in rallying as well, both tarmac and gravel/dirt/whatever. So, why do you need a mountain track to do this on?

Having said that, I would love a mountain track. I love rallying, so exciting to see a master throw the car down a twisty 'road' barely wide enough to walk down without hitting the trees, rocks, and fans at high speeds. Why has this phenomenon been labelled as 'Touge" now, though? Is it simply to put a japanese twist so that the ricer culture can embrace it? This is not a japanese form of racing. Anyways.. like I said, I would love a mountain course, would be a lot of fun, very challenging as well.

Quote from jspec :

so you are saying that sliding your car is faster than taking a turn in a regular way, without over or understeer? oh come on...

It is, in some cases.

I would welcome a drift track.

Honestly, I don't drift. But a track like that would benefit those that don't drift either.
Drift tracks usually got allot of turns close to each other, a track like that could be fun with the UF1

Quote from MAGGOT :

Okay, why didn't somebody say "Touge" then? Touge and drifting are two different things. Touge is proper racing. The fact they drift is to maintain speed. Why does touge have to be done on a mountain?

I'm sorry, but I have to get this straight, as you don't seem to know the actual meaning of the word "touge". The word "touge" actually means pass in japanese, as in Mountain Pass. You're right that the word has nothing to do with drifting, because people do both at touge, drift AND race.

Just had to clear this up.

Quote from Matrixi :

people do both at touge, drift AND race.

Just had to clear this up.

you didn't clear it up, really.

if, during racing, you "drift", in order to be fast, then the most accurate way of describing this is "racing", not "drifting AND racing".
you don't "drift AND race". it is not two distinct things.
When you trail brake, you don't say "trailbrake AND race", do you? of course not. Trailbraking is a technique used while racing. Like when wrc drivers pull the handbrake in order to get faster. You don't say "handbraking AND racing".

well its common for people to show off if they are owning someone on the touge. like if i am a few car lengths ahead of someone then i might drift a few corners to show off to the crowd. infact its almost expected. also with leaves and gravel and dirt and such some turns are very slippery anyways so drifting doesnt take much effort.

to cut a long story short:

we are not going to see a 'touge'-oriented mountain track in LFS. nor drifting-oriented. 'touge' is not official racing, it is borderline illegal 'street racing'. 'drifting', while it is a sport, it is not racing. If the realism of LFS allows us to 'drift race', as it is called, it is a welcome sideeffect. like crash-derbies.

we might (and would be pretty awesome) see a mountain road with lots of inclination changes and slippery surface. because these kinds of tracks exist in the real professional racing world.

Quote from george_tsiros :

you didn't clear it up, really.

if, during racing, you "drift", in order to be fast, then the most accurate way of describing this is "racing", not "drifting AND racing".
you don't "drift AND race". it is not two distinct things.

You should stop smoking whatever you're smoking and slap yourself in the face. You obviously completely missed my point, which was to explain mr. maggot what a touge is.

Quote from george_tsiros :

When you trail brake, you don't say "trailbrake AND race", do you? of course not. Trailbraking is a technique used while racing.

Trail braking is a racing technique like you said yourself, not a drifting technique. You use trailbraking WHILE you are racing. Get your head straight.

Quote from george_tsiros :

Like when wrc drivers pull the handbrake in order to get faster. You don't say "handbraking AND racing".

The WRC drivers are racing. When they pull the handbrake or do the so-called scandinavian flick, that is to get somewhere faster. Not to look good (=drift).


I think the differences between a true drift and basic sliding are a bit blurry to you. Therefore please try to give this a bit thought:

Drifting is the easiest thing in the world to explain. You go sideways before a corner while maintaining maximum possible angle and highest possible speed and exit after the corner (and possibly linking your drift to the next corner entry). Racing is racing, getting to the finishing point the fastest. There are people who like to drift with small angles that it's almost not drifting anymore, that is called speed-drifting. Limiting the amount of your drift.

If you're driving in a really tight touge for example, it might be a bit faster to let the tail out a bit after the apex instead of understeering the whole way, but that isn't drifting. That's power-over sliding.

Can we let it rest now?

the great thing about the internet is people do not hesitate to show their ignorance. its good there are other people there to try point out the truth

Quote from Matrixi :

You should stop smoking whatever you're smoking and slap yourself in the face.

the great thing about the internet is people missing the point altogether. its good there are other people there to try and show them that they're not going to see a drift track.

Sounds like an old ovaaaaal thread. ^^

I tried it out with a few friends. Drifting is huge fun with LFS. We build some tracks at AU_1 and drift like hell. Hope we´ll have a 24/7 drift server soon in FM. Actually I´m runnin´a test server.


LETS DRIFT

Quote from george_tsiros :

we are not going to see a 'touge'-oriented mountain track in LFS. nor drifting-oriented. 'touge' is not official racing ... it is not racing
--
we might (and would be pretty awesome) see a mountain road with lots of inclination changes and slippery surface. because these kinds of tracks exist in the real professional racing world.

..you must be on something if you change your mind that fast

touge may not be official.. but does that stop someone from winning a cup or money in an earthworm race? i would suppose not

also.. drifting can be a race.. here would you like me to show you the deffinition of the word race? a race doesnt mean you have to go around something faster than anyone else

here:

1. Sports.<LI type=a>A competition of speed, as in running or riding.
   
2. races A series of such competitions held at a specified time on a regular course
   
3. An extended competition in which participants struggle like runners to be the winner

unnoficial or not, a race is a race whether it is recorded or not

its like history; if its not in the books doesn't mean it never happened

Quote from XCNuse :

..you must be on something if you change your mind that fast

can you see the difference between:

a 'touge'/'drift' oriented track
vs.
a mountain track like the one in WRC.
?

"it is not racing" == "it is not the kind of racing that LFS tries to simulate."

i sense that there is a huge misunderstanding lurking here.

Quote from george_tsiros :

"it is not racing" == "it is not the kind of racing that LFS tries to simulate."

i sense that there is a huge misunderstanding lurking here.

Yeah, the misunderstanding being that you (and loads of others) seem to know exactly what kind of racing LFS tries to simulate now and in the future...

On the official LFS site there's no mention whatsoever about the kind of racing being simulated. Just that it is a racing simulator. There was talk about a rally pack being released at some stage during development. However, there's no hint of rallying in the current release. So, who knows, maybe once there are more racing rules implemented, some subset of "drifting" rules will be added. Until S3 is finished we have no idea what will be added. The only thing that Victor said was that there will be no NOS implemented as it's about racing tuning, and not about pimp tuning.

i know what i have read on the lfs site. it says "serious racing simulator". i have understood the way the developers view drifting. None of them (Scawen, Victor, Eric) have even mentioned drifting in any of their posts.that's all i need to know.

enough of this mindless bickering. we want drift, we don't want drift, drift is racing no it isn't yes it is, no, yes, no, yes, you didn't understand, yes i did, no you didn't, i meant this, i meant that...

enough.

i do not care at all about drifting, as i don't care about X and Y. that is all i can say.

meh you cared enough to post here. lol you dont care about drifters and people tht drift don't care about you.