I just really would love to have the wide open world of ATS in LFS. Why? It would be great for street races, would give an opportunity to raise the maximum on-track cars at once big-time, and would be amazing for cruising. Plus, the gaming community is really lacking a realistic driving games with the focus on CARS and with a large world at the same time.

It not easy to do - most physics simulation works with what is sometime referred to as 'zero-point calculation'. This means that the world and all of the action taking place is contained in an easily computable area. The further away from the zero-point you get, the more unpredictable and slower the physics become - hence the max-size restrictions given in other moddable sims.

Open world physics have to work in different ways, as the distances involved wouldn't work with a fixed zero-point, and it's probably also the reason the cars in open-world games are utter pigs to drive...

Disclaimer: I'm not a programmer, and I don't really have any idea how Scawen has coded his engine. This is only a simple breakdown of the systems from other sims that I've attempted making tracks for...

Quote from Shirtkicker :

It not easy to do - most physics simulation works with what is sometime referred to as 'zero-point calculation'. This means that the world and all of the action taking place is contained in an easily computable area. The further away from the zero-point you get, the more unpredictable and slower the physics become - hence the max-size restrictions given in other moddable sims.

Open world physics have to work in different ways, as the distances involved wouldn't work with a fixed zero-point, and it's probably also the reason the cars in open-world games are utter pigs to drive...

Disclaimer: I'm not a programmer, and I don't really have any idea how Scawen has coded his engine. This is only a simple breakdown of the systems from other sims that I've attempted making tracks for...

LFS' Autocross objects split 1 byte into "integer part" and "decimal part", instead of using the normal method. Hence, when you are too far off the zero-point you lose lots of precision.

I think this is a good example of what you are explaining, and it doesn't even include the physics part.

*I may be somewhat wrong, but I'm close enough to the real thing (I hope)

That's too bad, why can't the zero point be the center of the car?

Quote from gigapouch :

That's too bad, why can't the zero point be the center of the car?

Because then only car would have physics and not the environment. That's what I think.

And if multiple cars with zero point, physics would call false function towards to the other functions, in case car A, collides to car B, but car B's point being different, would not work. Or it does work, but not like supposed.

However, DO NOT SUPPORT this, as based on thought, not as fact.


EDIT: I do not think LFS works in this way anyway, as I think there is no limit of zero point, but rather for calculating the overall physics. This is the reason why we still have only 40 racers supported, and if too many objects moves at same time, objects simply malfunctions and operates incorrectly. That's why too many physics - message appears and still not too big environments. But yes, it still lags even in LFS, but I think it tries to force every frame, especially in single player. In other simulators, they do appear simply lagging or skipping the frames of physics. I guess this is the reason why some of the games have glitchy physics after optimizations.

So, put on simple way, we need super computers.



STILL, DO NOT SUPPORT THIS! ( I do not even know what I tried to explain LOL )

Then theoretically there could be multiple sectors each with their own zero point.

Quote from gigapouch :

Then theoretically there could be multiple sectors each with their own zero point.

I don't see why not? But I'm sure that requires something else as well.

Time to remain silent ->

Quote from Whiskey :

LFS' Autocross objects split 1 byte into "integer part" and "decimal part", instead of using the normal method. Hence, when you are too far off the zero-point you lose lots of precision.

I think this is a good example of what you are explaining, and it doesn't even include the physics part.

*I may be somewhat wrong, but I'm close enough to the real thing (I hope)

Dunno about inside LFS, but the autocross objects in the layout files are just signed integers, no splitting, no decimals.

I have no idea what this zero point malarky is all about either, but all floats suffer from a loss of precision at the ends of their scales - it's down to the way they're stored and is unavoidable.

Quote from gigapouch :

That's too bad, why can't the zero point be the center of the car?

You're right about that. And I'm not sure car position even affects the physics like they say. Unless Scawen confirms this I don't believe it. The main inputs for the physics are the velocities and tyre load. Tyre load might be slightly affected by large coordinate values but at that point, like you say, it's just a matter of localizing the calculations to the car.