Most of you completely missed the point. Let me just make this clear, as it should be from simply reading: this thread is (was?) about discussing the prohibition of VOB mods in screenshots and on-forum. Literally the first line of the first post. For everything else that was brought up, it can indeed help in regards to the why of this rule, but it's far from complete, in fact it's only getting further away. My bringing up of a hitbox-checking feature seem to have confused some of you, I'm sorry for that. I was merely speculating and it wasn't the subject as you can infer from the little amount of space it takes in my post. Most arguments here are about multiplayer or mod support, but that's not quite the subject.

Another heads-up, for which I'll use CozmicDragon's post as an example:

Quote from CozmicDragon :

Maybe, one day, if we get proper car modding in LFS (as in, adding new cars, with their own performance values and everything), I'll actually use them. VOB mods are unreliable, buggy messes, especially the ones made to work online, and most of them are not very good to begin with. Not to mention they invalidate one of the greatest things about LFS: Custom Skins. I love custom skins too much to ruin them with a (most likely ugly) VOB mod.

Already answered through multiple posts. Not only it is very unlikely that we'll see any official mod support; but the general consensus in this post is that VOBs which **** things up (to say it bluntly) should be completely obliterated into outer space from the realm of what is tolerated both on-forum and online, even if the latter isn't the subject.
Regarding skins compatibility (read: +hitbox conflicts+copyright infrigement+respect for what LFS stands for), I've also pointed out the only thing that should be allowed would be minor modifications that don't go against any of the aforementioned principles. Simple as that.

Thus we're talking about slightly customized content that is within the bounds of Live For Speed. Not Live for importing-mods-from-forza-models-because-why-not or Live for ruining-everyone's-day-in-racing.

Quote from THE WIZARD DK :

EDIT: oh yer .. Laws are NOT the same as rules. short explanation here is cameras in public buldings. you may see signs in a public building saying no cameras. but thats in most countries a HOUSE rule for that specific bulding. their own made internal rules. but you will find in the LAW. that you can film in any public building. in short. RULES & LAWS are NOT the same thing !

Second and last off topic regarding that: Allow me to doubt you have enough grasp to the matter of law, or you were too drunk to understand what I meant. As you pointed out, a rule isn't a law and is defined by the establishment that is allowed by law of higher value to enforce its own rules within its jurisdiction and to its discretion, so long as it respects the hierarchy of laws. If I said that laws are meant to be debated over - because it is what gives us rights and limits us -, it's only logical that the exact same thing applies to rules on a smaller scale ("so should be rules"). That's all there is to what I meant. Never said rules were law or bullshit of the sort.

"Not only it is very unlikely that we'll see any official mod support"

Depends on the timeframe... in next year or couple of them? Highly unlikely.

Once (and IF) the LFS will be near "finished" state? Quite likely, the mods will get probably official support and tools, as Scawen would *like* to do. But there's no point even to try to estimate, when/if that happens.

About forum ban - it's very difficult with todays people, they tend to not read any warnings or informal texts, so once you will post "toyota" picture with unofficial mod, there will be like thousand people thinking there's legit way how to get it into game... and once it will get broken by next patch update of LFS, they will come cry that the toyota did break and the patch is bad...

I.e. for simplicity the official forum ban is probably most sane option. You can still discuss + post VOB mods on unofficial forums, as much as you wish, where it will not confuse careless players.

Quote from Ped7g :

About forum ban - it's very difficult with todays people, they tend to not read any warnings or informal texts, so once you will post "toyota" picture with unofficial mod, there will be like thousand people thinking there's legit way how to get it into game... and once it will get broken by next patch update of LFS, they will come cry that the toyota did break and the patch is bad...

In which case, as you said afterwards, banning is the simplest option. However I'd rather have a system where VOB mods that respect the principles I've enunciated in my last post are formally allowed to be shown in screenshots. It seems from searching throughout the forums that no (licensed) user showing these type of mods has been banned recently, so it's already in place (intended or not) but isn't written anywhere.
As for VOBs with completely different cars, well, maybe a few days long ban and a deletion of the infringing post in order to prevent other members from seeing it and think it is allowed (which is most likely once the person isn't shown as "In the corner" anymore); or better yet, a big ol' moderation note on the post which replaces the content causing the offense and clearly states that's it's forbidden to post such content. Along with a link to the violated rule for people to check out its modalities.

There's plenty of ways - and easy ways - of doing what I'm suggesting. But then, instead, the real question is: are the moderators and developers even caring - with the clear exception of piracy - for the rules? 'Cause they need some refresh, and not just regarding what this thread is about.

Quote from THE WIZARD DK :

you just answered it yourself :

YOU rather have...

but devs do not.

hows that?

That's pointless. I've said it before. I'm part of the community. It's only natural that I express my opinion, deal with it. By the way if you've got something to say make it constructed; and please don't claim anyone's word until they say it for themselves, since so far the VOB-prohibition for screenshots rule hasn't been applied any recently for shots containing minor VOB modifications. This thread wouldn't be there if it was.

Quote from Big Daddy :

Well I must say I have red the whole thread.

No.

Quote from TwinySkyline :

Regarding skins compatibility (read: +hitbox conflicts+copyright infrigement+respect for what LFS stands for), I've also pointed out the only thing that should be allowed would be minor modifications that don't go against any of the aforementioned principles. Simple as that.

Quote from TwinySkyline :

As for VOBs with completely different cars ([edited for the quote] read: potentially copyrighted content), well, maybe a few days long ban and a deletion of the infringing post in order to prevent other members from seeing it and think it is allowed (which is most likely once the person isn't shown as "In the corner" anymore); or better yet, a big ol' moderation note on the post which replaces the content causing the offense and clearly states that's it's forbidden to post such content. Along with a link to the violated rule for people to check out its modalities.

Quote from TwinySkyline :

if I am to support on-forum any VOB modding it would be the one that stays true to the original work of the developers, that doesn't infringe copyright and doesn't create hitbox issues.

Forbidding copyrighted VOB content among other things is as efficient as forbidding everything at once to prevent copyrighted content from being allowed. The same rules still apply for this specific offense. The problem lies in VOB content that doesn't infringe copyright and is harmless in many other ways. That's what I'm talking about for god's sake, lol.

Quote from nikopdr :

I mean steering wheel feels more heavy like if i add 50kg in a setup, they still works normal like original Vob. I do a printscreen to explain why i can feel some extra deadzone( in random moments) when i drifting with other mods ( because i use full steeringwheel rotation) some mods can have both feelings. In racing i just feel more G-forces when i braking , in drifting i feel more G-forces only with cold tyres and because is about alot more weight transfer all the way ,when tyres come really hot i feel less G-force than in racing.G-forces work in diferent way i think.

Quote from TwinySkyline :

Dude you are to far from this forum to understand what they talking to you and what we talking in a past.The real LFS community is here, people really help to improve LFS is here, LFS is more than only using XRT + autocross and tons of laps o Blackwood like you do with XRG.... Where are you on the test patch release? You dont know nothing about LFS, if you know something, you never open this Topic.... Is clear and simple.More than what you saying, is what you do.Your online stats talking by him self.
Devs cant stop developing LFS for checking tons of mods, but you dont have space enough in your brain to understand something so simple.

^ lmao

Abone sorry mate but you lost touch with reality

Quote from Abone :

Dude you are to far from this forum to understand what they talking to you and what we talking in a past.The real LFS community is here, people really help to improve LFS is here, LFS is more than only using XRT + autocross and tons of laps o Blackwood like you do with XRG.... Where are you on the test patch release? You dont know nothing about LFS, if you know something, you never open this Topic.... Is clear and simple.More than what you saying, is what you do.Your online stats talking by him self.
Devs cant stop developing LFS for checking tons of mods, but you dont have space enough in your brain to understand something so simple.

lmao x2

Yeah cause playing this game for 3 years (which is a lot for a game, don't be fooled by the old timers) with a few pauses, posting skins for others to use, starting threads and following the forum is definitely being "far from this forum". Having tons of laps on blackwood (did you mean to say: the long process of learning the physics as a demo player at the beginning and thoroughly enjoying XRG throughout many years to come) and being the fastest around with a keyboard on BL1R (well, used to be, I don't care anymore); switching later to being a part of the drifting and cruising community is definitely not knowing "something". Sorry for the miles, my name ain't P V L. A hundred thousand kilometers of hot laps is probably not enough to know how LFS works too.
By the way I didn't say the developers should implement mod support.

Also since off-topic personal attacks are your thing, try to improve your english, read statistics and understand what other people are even talking about. Many thanks.

Now back to the topic.

@Big Daddy

No worries and no need to apologize. I meant to discuss anyways. And yeah you're right - it's not much of a big deal. It just saddens me to see the rules being left behind since it gets confusing after a while whether or not you're allowed to do something that is never punished but is forbidden by rule. It's at this exact point that it gets important to discuss them, when they're outdated.

Quote from TwinySkyline :

By the way I didn't say the developers should implement mod support.

I know...
"If VOB mods could be tested on the website (or via third-party) and approved/refused depending on their "crashability" and then checked in-game (server check) in order to assure only approved VOB mods are used;" is your idea and Devs dont have time for this and dont work like this to assume a good "mod".


I dont lie in any aspect and this is a "repeated topic" from other person.

Sry come to offensive, but reality hurts with good or bad english.

peace

Quote from Abone :

"If VOB mods could be tested on the website (or via third-party) and approved/refused depending on their "crashability" and then checked in-game (server check) in order to assure only approved VOB mods are used;" is your idea and Devs dont have time for this and dont work like this to assume a good "mod".

Quote from TwinySkyline :

My bringing up of a hitbox-checking feature seem to have confused some of you, I'm sorry for that. I was merely speculating and it wasn't the subject as you can infer from the little amount of space it takes in my post. Most arguments here are about multiplayer or mod support, but that's not quite the subject.

Reading helps too.

Quote from Abone :

reality hurts with good or bad english.

Quote from neonmateo :

Abone sorry mate but you lost touch with reality

lol at abone so much shit talking
dude is probably hallucinating

I've gone dead confused trying to find the point of all the posts...

bla bla bla half of you people didnt read the first post itself just assume things from anothers' replays. cheerse

Except you lack basic understanding and are entitled to an opinion with no tangible argument. Leave this thread to the depths of the past if you've got nothing actually interesting to say, thanks.

There was a time that we used to even remove any mention of a vob mod from the forum. I suppose that cat is long out of the bag now.
I thought the forum rule was in place to stop the official forums, being paid for by the devs, from being used to spread free content that damages their business model (free game with content purchases).
The devs can't control what you do with LFS on your own PC but they can at least implement rules for their own forums. I think you are taking the rules too literally.

Thanks for the answer, at last. Yeah the rule is never enforced nowadays - not that I wish for it to be anyway, though for all I care I'd delete this thread if I'm asked to.
Can't help but agree with the content part, however the catch here is that visual customization (free content that doesn't alter gameplay nor sellings) is supported throughout dedicated sub-forums so it's one of the reasons I brought this up in the first place. Of course we're still talking about limited customization here though, not copyrighted content or one which is equivalent to piracy of licensed content from LFS.

Don't really know if I was taking the rule "too" literally, since it literally says that there's no room for screenshots. If showing VOBs similar to the one which I've linked in the first post is tolerated, then it'd be better to write it. Unlike what many here thinks this thread was never about allowing something which hasn't already been allowed many times in the past by implicit consensus. It really is just about clarification. Or we could completely apply the current rule, lock/delete this thread and delete/edit all infringing posts. That would also mean some work on the side of moderators and/or addition of new moderators; though you're giving me hope that moderation isn't completely lost haha.

If it's modified content that got you sold on LFS, then that's wonderful.

By too literal, I meant that just because screenshots are called out as being banned, doesn't mean everything other than screenshots is encouraged. Definitely just unavoidable toleration.

On that note, tweaker apps used to be permitted but after some time, the devs changed their mind on that (giving different handling but could be combined with modified vobs). I can't argue, that was all fun while it lasted.

Regards piracy (or rather copyright infringement), I think that only applies if the content is being sold. The water muddies if the devs are seen to encourage free but copyrighted content in order to sell their own content.

Nah, modified content hardly gets anyone sold on a simulation.

I think you mistook other's message for mine, I specifically said that rules and in-game limitations were two different things. Definitely just unavoidable toleration, indeed.

Well with the hopes this gets taken care of eventually, then.

Just let the thread die in peace

Can I posting video a little bit changed track? Because it not VOB modding )
Do we have rules for that case?

Doesn't look like there is any, so you can by default. Might change in the future though.