Quote from Evolution_R :

I would say around December 2021... but who knows.

I do not think Eric is planning to spend over than a year fixing few holes on two tracks and doing magic on Fern Bay !
NB: Eric do not forget jocker lap layouts on rallyx tracks ☺️

Maybe he's not planning to, but will have to. I'd say 2021-2022.

I love all the realism details you put in. I think the result will be very immersive. The exposure and echo stuff is very cutting edge
I'm holding my thumbs for some normal maps as well because I don't recall any reports covering that. It's great for visuals because you can add edge bevels both on cars and the world without adding more geometry.

The lighting really looks good and seems realistic, but in my opinion there is not enough effect AO (Ambient occlusion), I tried adding it in Photoshop to compare the result.

Yeah I though of this too, I think adding a SSAO (Call of Duty's GTAO for example) to the renderer would really improve the image in shadows, vertex ambient occlusion is ok for large scale AO, but can't grab the fine details.
But I think Scawen has enough things to worry about for this release not to worry about that for now, it can easily be added later on.

The big thing that is weird on the screenshot to me is the light leak under the roof of the entrance

Quote from Vladimir_nose :

The lighting really looks good and seems realistic...

The graphics on the picture look so good that I would like to try LFS in 1st person (like FPS games). I think LFS devs shoud be working on perfecting the existing game assets (cars&tracks, engine).

Quote from Scawen :

I am more motivated to try and update the new tyre physics to an acceptable level. It is nice to drive with but needs some good work on load sensitivity, pressure and temperatures which are not correct.

I'm always interested about the tyre modelling. When I wrote a thermodynamic model for NASCAR 2011, I used a weighted average of all the material properties of the 'ingredients' of a typical tyre, and it seemed to work really well. The tyre temperatures came out very close to the real cars, though I did note that the tyres warmed and cooled a lot faster than LFS. As such, the temperature vs friction curve I made up was much subtler than has been derived from LFS.
I know you're not really thinking about this topic now, but when you are, always happy to be a sounding board for ideas.

Quote from Scawen :

It may well be that a different effect is dominant in different cars, due to the different mass distributions and other design features.

That makes a lot of sense. Many ways to design a car, and especially a tyre.

Quote from Scawen :

Now I'm really not a crazy driver at all these days and don't drive much anyway but there are times when I can accelerate pretty hard out of a roundabout without any danger to myself or others. I can apply a lot of power without actually going sideways and it feels to me like it gets closer to oversteer through that process. It feels very planted and poised as I apply more power.

Now I'm having memories of you taking me down those Wiltshire back roads in your M3. Do you still have that?

Thank you all for the comments!

Quote from EeekiE :

I think there are competing things happening when you accelerate in a rear drive car, and the balance of what wins might depend somewhat on the car itself, as well as any fancy electronics potentially stepping in.

My analog RX-7 has wider tyres at the rear than at the front, and quite a linear and gentle power curve, so unless you’re extremely aggressive the load transfer plays a more dominant role in pushing the car out wide.
Which would be a combination of bigger contact patch mentioned here and more force pressing down on the tyre into the road surface.

I was just testing some lighting updates at the autocross area and was driving around in the LX4 in the dark, when I came across the skid pad and started to test out what we were talking about. I drove around well within the grip limits and did some gentle applications of the throttle.

It turns out that it behaved as you said after all, the front did take a wider line with extra throttle. This was in an LX4 with an open diff and with matching front and rear wheels.

I haven't had a close look at the forces going on, or done any comparisons with other cars. But just wanted to confirm that my original statement was too general or (maybe completely wrong) and that your statement was a very good point.

Quote from Bob Smith :

Now I'm having memories of you taking me down those Wiltshire back roads in your M3. Do you still have that?

Nice to see you, Ben.

Yes I still have the E46 M3 and it still has low mileage! It will be 18 next year.

Quote from Scawen :

With the changing day/night has there been consideration about changing track temperature? I'm not sure what LFS uses in terms of environment temperature as an input for tyres, but even some location baseline with some modifier based on time of day could add some variety to races.

I don't know if that's possible, or if/how LFS models temperature coming into the tyres from the environment.

Quote from gu3st :

I don't know if that's possible, or if/how LFS models temperature coming into the tyres from the environment.

In the current tyre model, we know 20C is the temperature tyres will decay towards at rest, IIRC.

The real test would be if you then pulled away, would you see a patch that stayed warmer because that's the bit that was in contact with the ground?

Slightly OT, some cool realtime physics are shown here



Anyway I still assume lfs tyre physics will (is?) more realistic

Fascinating viewing.

Mathias Müller's home page: https://matthias-research.github.io/pages/index.html

See top paper in Publications.

See also the n-pendulum simulation in Challenges.

Quote from just2fast :

Slightly OT, some cool realtime physics are shown here



Anyway I still assume lfs tyre physics will (is?) more realistic

Clicked for the thumbnail, stayed for the narration. "Holy mother of papers"

Quote from bbman :

The real test would be if you then pulled away, would you see a patch that stayed warmer because that's the bit that was in contact with the ground?

Assuming the ground and air are the same temperature, I think you'd expect the part in contact with the ground to cool faster via conduction? Once the tyre's temperature is fully equalized with ambient air, there would be no hot/cold patches on the tyre. Again, assuming the ground and air are the same temperature.

IRL, the road can be warmer than the air, but the reverse is also possible.

Quote from Forbin :

Assuming the ground and air are the same temperature, I think you'd expect the part in contact with the ground to cool faster via conduction? Once the tyre's temperature is fully equalized with ambient air, there would be no hot/cold patches on the tyre. Again, assuming the ground and air are the same temperature.

IRL, the road can be warmer than the air, but the reverse is also possible.

uhhh.... wouldn't the air temp have to be really cold and the ground temp really hot for a noticeable difference? And wouldn't the car have to be parked for a while to even almost have to worry about hot and cold patches on the tires? And wouldn't that temperature difference go away after a few revolutions of the wheels anyways?

Quote from Forbin :

Assuming the ground and air are the same temperature, I think you'd expect the part in contact with the ground to cool faster via conduction? Once the tyre's temperature is fully equalized with ambient air, there would be no hot/cold patches on the tyre. Again, assuming the ground and air are the same temperature.

IRL, the road can be warmer than the air, but the reverse is also possible.

Since precipitation rain or winter is probably even further off for LfS than "just" air/ground temperature modelling, I did make the assumption that the road would be warmer than the air. As such, given enough time the contact patch should reach equilibrium at a higher temperature than the parts exposed to the air, even if maybe I'm overestimating the convection (as nobody in LfS uses wind)?

Quote from Scawen :

Thank you all for the comments!



I was just testing some lighting updates at the autocross area and was driving around in the LX4 in the dark, when I came across the skid pad and started to test out what we were talking about. I drove around well within the grip limits and did some gentle applications of the throttle.

It turns out that it behaved as you said after all, the front did take a wider line with extra throttle. This was in an LX4 with an open diff and with matching front and rear wheels.

I haven't had a close look at the forces going on, or done any comparisons with other cars. But just wanted to confirm that my original statement was too general or (maybe completely wrong) and that your statement was a very good point.

Thanks for the update! That behaviour mixed with the subtle difference you described before means you must be pretty damn close to something very good indeed. In my opinion LFS is already excellent. It prepared me for my first track day many years ago and made me catch something I'd never have done without the unconscious reactions your game burned into me. They just worked. I was gob-smacked and screamed like a chimp from the adrenaline.

Please, give us this update!

Hey Scawen.

Any news on the go?

I suspect a December Progress Report.

xmas ftw !

Quote from TROLDMANDEN :

Hi.
i have seen images of night driving but im still not entirely sure of how will headlights work for AI´s?
im thinking best choice solution is an on/off button outside each AI?
or will it automatically turn on at some time of day?
or will it turn on when light comes to a certain degree ?
command maybe?
i use AI alot, so im very curious to know about this.
thank you.

I guess as LFS now has an exposure value for the lighting system it won't be that hard to connect this to an light on/off function for the AI

For months there is no news, I hope the next report will not be "Covid progress report"

Quote from Vladimir_nose :

For months there is no news, I hope the next report will not be "Covid progress report"

There will be a Christmas / New Year report I am pretty sure.