Hello LFS world.

I'm not "new" to LFS. I first found this sim about 10 years ago. Raced off and on periodically over the years. Never got into multiplayer games, always raced in single player mode. I'm not a "gamer" but I like racing and flight sims. Recently got back involved because my oldest son is pretty big into gaming. I don't care for the FPS games he likes but we have a common interest in racing. So, bought a couple of Thrustmaster TMX Pro wheels and bought a second S3 license so we can race each other.


My question is with the Multiplayer races with a Voluntary Air Restriction for particular cars. Now I've got some real world experience with road racing, so I know a thing or two about vehicle setups, running naturally aspirated or forced induction cars and how to get them around a track quickly. I primarily drive an FXR and always seem to be 6 to 7 seconds slower than other players driving FXR's where the VAR is 23% or 25%. Doesn't seem to matter what shift points I use, line I run or how I setup my gearbox and final drive ratios to compensate for the reduced power output.

After spectating a few of the faster players I've noted that they are hitting higher top speeds, around 8-10mph faster. I've also noted that despite being able to get off the corners really well and accelerate real quickly, these other players in FXR's still manage to pull away.

It's really got me stumped. I hate to call others "hackers" because I know I'm not the greatest competitor in the world, but! Given my knowledge of racing and the level of complexity and adjustability in how LFS models it's engine performance. I'm beginning to believe the really fast guys have figured out a way to get around the VAR. I say that because in Single Player with the VAR pulled back to half (13%-15%) I can clock the same if not slightly faster lap times and my replays look alot like their in game performance when spectating them.
*Knocked back to 0% VAR, I'm lightening in bottle quick, like 6-7 seconds faster. I've clocked a few 2:42's at Aston in the FXR at 0% VAR. My best times at 15% VAR in the low 2:50's and 2:59/3:00 at the Multiplayer VAR of 23% or 25%.

Could this simply be a matter of players not really running the same VAR as mandated by the race's creator?

Thanks,

SCCA-GT3

post replay of you driving and your setup

Thanks for replying.

I'll work on getting a replay out of LFS.

But, let me honest. I really don't want to call any one player or players out. Because If I'm wrong, it wouldn't be fair to them because maybe I'm just not driving the car as well as they are.
As far as personal setups go......well, I tend to keep them close to my chest.
*Old habits die hard. Sometimes your setup is the primary thing that makes you competitive so handing them out is a no-no.

One of those "faster" players sent me their setup in game. And, even with their setup I wasn't able to hit the same lap times they were or knock off any more time on my lap times. But then again, different setups are typically geared around their driving style.

That being said, another thing I've noticed from spectating the faster players is they tend to stay in the throttle and feather the throttle and breaks from turn entry through the apex and on exit. Which I know from actual on-track experiences you can't really do because you'll eat up your tires and breaks a whole lot faster not to mention the increased risks of spinning the car. I'm to accustomed to breaking early, making the turn then getting back on the power when appropriate or dragging the breaks through the turn to "settle" the car or make the car turn better.
*Which explains why I get run over alot on turn entries......lol

And maybe that's all the issue is. These guys are driving that way because the races are usually 4-5 lap sprints and I'm trying to be fast while preserving my tires and breaks like I'm running a much longer race.

Sims also tend to encourage driving styles that don't always work in real life as a consequence of not everything being simulated.

Quote from gu3st :

Sims also tend to encourage driving styles that don't always work in real life as a consequence of not everything being simulated.

Yeah, I've experienced that In the Air Combat Sims I've played.

But, I've always been impressed with LFS's modeling. Most driving sims don't seem to model the way weight transfers from front/rear, left/right under lateral G-loading while turning, on/off breaking, etc. They all seem to have a "flat" modeling of that for all conditions. I've heard iRacing's modeling does a really good job of that but I'm happy with LFS.

and restricted fxr especially needs agressive gokart style driving to be fast

Quote from ImudilaSkyline :

and restricted fxr especially needs agressive gokart style driving to be fast

Beginning to see that myself......

My driving style is to be smooth, because smooth is fast and throwing around a race car like a rag doll usually doesn't work out well. But if that's what I've got to learn to do, that's what I've got to do.

Personally, I truly enjoy Single Player racing. The AI cars on "Pro" setting can be a lot of fun and challenging. I just wish they had a little more proximity awareness when you're door to door with them. Seems like they don't venture off the Geometric Racing Line unless forced to and unnecessarily bang fenders with you where an actual driver will give you a little more room, if for no other reason than to keep from wrecking or damaging their car, putting them out of competition.

Could it be a calibration issue? When driving there should be a bunch of lightly coloured bars at the bottom right, that correspond to your control input for throttle, brakes, clutch and parking brakes respectively, if memory serves me right. At 100% there's a white line showing at the top of that bar. So go and check whether the green (?) bar is maxed out while fully pressing the accelerator pedal.

Hi,

Quote :

Could this simply be a matter of players not really running the same VAR as mandated by the race's creator?

When spectating another car, you can press F11 to see its VAR and ballast settings. Usually servers with VAR have scripts that disallow you to join the track with wrong settings. As far I know, it is not possible to cheat that.

You can go to https://www.lfsworld.net/?win=stats&racer=Julian_Byrd to compare your lap times/statistics to other drivers. It only works for unrestricted cars, though.
For example Blackwood with the BMW formular your fastet laptime is 1:20.020
The world record is 1min12 and in races times around 1min15 are common.
As a slow driver myself, all it comes down to is practice and talent.

Quote :

Most driving sims don't seem to model the way weight transfers from front/rear, left/right under lateral G-loading while turning, on/off breaking, etc. They all seem to have a "flat" modeling of that for all conditions.

In a replay, press "F" to get a view of the forces on the car/tires and shift+L for a suspension. You can see how the weight shifts. But most important it shows the forces on the tires. If the arrows are red, it means that tire is slipping which usually means loss of time. On the other hand, if the arrows are too short it means you are not going as fast as possible: the tires still have some unused grip reserve left.

The FXR with VAR is kind of special: It has 4WD, wings and slicks. So it has very good grip/power ratio.
Also it has a turbo: When you lift the throttle, turbo pressure drops and takes a while to build up. (Watch the gauge and compare with other drivers) So if you are too cautios, that is more punishing than in a non-turbo car. Corner exit speed is very important.

A replay would be most helpful. After a race press "2" and enter a filename. It will be saved in LFS\data\mpr (multiplayer) or LFS\data\spr (singleplayer). Then attach the file to forum.

Quote from Julian_Byrd :

I've clocked a few 2:42's at Aston in the FXR at 0% VAR.

Which Aston Layout, Grand Prix? The WR there would be 2:37, so that would actually not be that far of pace.

Thanks guys,

I'll play around with everything and see if I can't get some more speed out of a restricted FXR.

As I get reacquainted with Sim Racing after a long hiatus, I'm sure there's a few things I've simply forgotten about as far as setting up a car. It'll come back to me at some point.

Quote from Julian_Byrd :

Thanks guys,

I'll play around with everything and see if I can't get some more speed out of a restricted FXR.

As I get reacquainted with Sim Racing after a long hiatus, I'm sure there's a few things I've simply forgotten about as far as setting up a car. It'll come back to me at some point.

Hello, i believe problem would be that you run too high downforce and too low tyre pressures for GT2 class FXR, after couple months of break did a lap now with FXR 24% resctricted an did 2.49.33, with some laps atleast 2.48.0x should be done, pinned SPR file that u can watch lap on how to drive FXR in such restriction, lap is far from perfect and with mistakes, but to begin working on should help, i did lap with AS6 setup that i uploaded it for you too, but its made for a endurance race so in sprint races it might burn, so i uploaded another setup by name AS5_GT2R that should work for sprint races.

Quote from Pathseeker :

Hello, i believe problem would be that you run too high downforce and too low tyre pressures for GT2 class FXR, after couple months of break did a lap now with FXR 24% resctricted an did 2.49.33, with some laps atleast 2.48.0x should be done, pinned SPR file that u can watch lap on how to drive FXR in such restriction, lap is far from perfect and with mistakes, but to begin working on should help, i did lap with AS6 setup that i uploaded it for you too, but its made for a endurance race so in sprint races it might burn, so i uploaded another setup by name AS5_GT2R that should work for sprint races.

Thanks!

I'll give those setups a try. I've tweaked on my setups some knowing that they were initially created using a non restricted FXR, but I'm sure there's something I'm missing.

sometimes to be the best and the fastest you gotta use ridiculous settings / scenarios.
e.g. back in the golden LFS days a lot of top tier drifters used ~ 270 degrees of rotation to just make sure they can switch in tandems hella quick. It took some time to adjust but clearly it worked for them and for most their skills werent achievable.

Same goes for racing. It is definitely more fun and realistic to use certain settings, but hell sometimes if you wanna be quicker, lower degrees of rotation, smaller FOV etc, all those little things add up with time.

Quote from 5tag :

Could it be a calibration issue? When driving there should be a bunch of lightly coloured bars at the bottom right, that correspond to your control input for throttle, brakes, clutch and parking brakes respectively, if memory serves me right. At 100% there's a white line showing at the top of that bar. So go and check whether the green (?) bar is maxed out while fully pressing the accelerator pedal.

I checked all of that and I'm good there. Hitting the white bar on all three axis entrys I have, clutch, break, gas.

Speaking of that, would LOVE to know how (if possible) to adjust or soften up the clutch's break over point. There's very little room to feather the clutch. The slider bar under Options for the clutch axis shows the potentiometer in the pedal set is working properly, but the range of motion for when it's engaged/not engaged is so narrow, I tend to stall the engine if just trying to ease forward.

just tweak 1st gear ratio higher but for race starts you need to launch with full turbo pressure