greetings,

what i find quite bizarre is when people during public races get all fussed about being held up by traffic on their way to a new pb. the whole point of racing is to drive with others. if one expects to set pb's why not do hotlaps instead, or join a server all by yourself if you want to cut across the grass?

this situation escalates in a rather strange interpretation of the "blue flag" rule where most of the faster drivers seriously assume the slower car has to basically clear the track in front of them. and here i may refer to the sticky:

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=2146

so, when you are being lapped you DO NOT have to shift-S or drive into the gras while going round a corner. i very rarely see a driver purposefully disobeying the blue flag, instead i see many drivers attacking the slow guys for not moving out of the way quick enough.

so, let's just give us all a break and enjoy racing each other.

any other opinions?

regards

Quote from BlueSkunk :

so, when you are being lapped you DO NOT have to shift-S or drive into the gras while going round a corner. i very rarely see a driver purposefully disobeying the blue flag, instead i see many drivers attacking the slow guys for not moving out of the way quick enough.

I agree, too many people confuse racing with hotlapping. For instance I feel uncomfortable with people mapping "BLUE FLAG LET ME PASS" to a hotkey, but there are situations in which some drivers are never up to race speed. So, while driving in the grass or pitting for being lapped is definitely too much, for me applying a gentle lift off after having moved out of the racing line on a straight is a kind way of letting a faster driver pass without compromising his/her or your performance too much, especially if you see someone approaching really fast in your mirrors. That is, if someone uses mirrors, of course...

Quote from BlueSkunk :

greetings,

what i find quite bizarre is when people during public races get all fussed about being held up by traffic on their way to a new pb. the whole point of racing is to drive with others. if one expects to set pb's why not do hotlaps instead, or join a server all by yourself if you want to cut across the grass?

this situation escalates in a rather strange interpretation of the "blue flag" rule where most of the faster drivers seriously assume the slower car has to basically clear the track in front of them. and here i may refer to the sticky:

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=2146

so, when you are being lapped you DO NOT have to shift-S or drive into the gras while going round a corner. i very rarely see a driver purposefully disobeying the blue flag, instead i see many drivers attacking the slow guys for not moving out of the way quick enough.

so, let's just give us all a break and enjoy racing each other.

any other opinions?

regards

I'm 100% with you on this one. Saw a guy the other day competing in a 60 lap race. A back marker pulled out of the pits and instead of lifting this guy tried to make the pass mid corner at full speed with out so much as a lift. They both crashed and he blamed the back marker. I personally would have lifted - lost the half second - so what, and passed SAFELY. I felt the fast guy was 100% repsonsible for this accident.

Quote from Albieg :

I agree, too many people confuse racing with hotlapping. For instance I feel uncomfortable with people mapping "BLUE FLAG LET ME PASS" to a hotkey, but there are situations in which some drivers are never up to race speed.
...

I am very annoyed by these unnecessary binds. LFS indicates blue flag to the lapped car, no need to annoy people by pressing it five times and distract people! And no PASS RIGHT >>>>> sh*t either!
And no, I don't like to block, because I sometimes chat with mates.

People tend to lose their minds when trying to hotlap online with 10 others around. It's impossible! Racing online is about making decisions fast and very often, sacrifices, that's the thrill of it.

Quote from K.David :

People tend to lose their minds when trying to hotlap online with 10 others around. It's impossible!

That´s wrong.

With the BF1 f.e. you need draft to lower your pb. Binds like "BLUE FLAG! GET OUT OF THE LINE" are needed often, a lot of peope ignore the blue flag.

Blue flag does NOT mean get off the racing line. It means let the person behind past safely.

Quote from sil3ntwar :

Blue flag does NOT mean get off the racing line. It means let the person behind past safely.

BLUE FLAG DOES MEAN GET OFF THE RACING LINE.

On the oval f.e.: Stay right, don´t brake, go wide in corners.

Quote from Crazy Harry :

That´s wrong.

With the BF1 f.e. you need draft to lower your pb. Binds like "BLUE FLAG! GET OUT OF THE LINE" are needed often, a lot of peope ignore the blue flag.

No draft is needed to lower your pb... just drive quicker. Can't draft in hotlapping.

Also I hate it when people post message like that "GET OUT OF THE LINE". Backmarkers can hold the line if they want, all they have to do is yield and make it easy for the quicker car to pass.

edit//Crazy Harry, you are very wrong. Just proved the point that so many people have no idea what the flags mean.

Quote from keiran :

No draft is needed to lower your pb... just drive quicker. Can't draft in hotlapping.

LOL. Draft is needed to lower your pb. What do you mean with "drive faster"?

Another example? WR (HL) on KY1 in BF1 is 31.45 by [FM]Plaztikman. Best pb is 29.74. So tell me again "no draft needed". =)

crazy harry,

please show any reference to your statement:

Quote :

BLUE FLAG DOES MEAN GET OFF THE RACING LINE.

otherwise please refer to the lfs sticky here:

http://www.lfsforum.net/forumdisplay.php?f=49

cheers.

Quote from Crazy Harry :

LOL. Draft is needed to lower your pb. What do you mean with "drive faster"?

Another example? WR (HL) on KY1 in BF1 is 31.45 by [FM]Plaztikman. Best pb is 29.74. So tell me again "no draft needed". =)

Someone setting a fastest lap with a draft is not setting a quick time IMO. All they are doing is getting artifical help from a car in front. It takes more skill to get the quickest time via HLVC than drafting someone for the whole stright.

I like how you've gone off the topic of blue flags

Quote from keiran :

Someone setting a fastest lap with a draft is not setting a quick time IMO. All they are doing is getting artifical help from a car in front. It takes more skill to get the quickest time via HLVC than drafting someone for the whole stright.

I like how you've gone off the topic of blue flags

You are wrong again. It´s not about staying behind a car. I´s about drafting and changing positions several times a lap to use the slipstream to lower your pb and to raise your speed. Driving alone is much more easy as drafting with 1, 2 or 3 buddies. Try it, you will agree.

BlueSkunk: No problem. Just connect to the FM Junkies Server. There is written: Obey blue flag, get out of the line and let faster cars pass, don´t block. That´s good enough as a reason for me.

Quote:
"- If you are being lapped by a faster car: The car behind you is consistently faster than you and has managed to travel one more lap than you have. He is about to overtake you and the blue flag is displayed to warn you of his presence.
In this case you are hindering his progress and must allow him to pass you as soon as it is safe to do so (you can't be expected to yield while negotiating a chicane or high speed corner) Hold your line don't fight the other car, do not make any sudden movements left or right, ease off slightly and let him pass. He is a lap ahead of you and you are not fighting him for position. You must not hold him up."

You have to let pass faster cars on the oval, so you can´t hold your line, that is blocking, so you have to leave the best line. Same on tracks like Westhill. The track is so fast that it is nearly impossible to drive fast away from the perfect line. So best will be to leave the line if you are blue flaged.

I've had a blue flag plenty of times, when the car lapping me is like 15 car lengths behind, then when they've passed me i can still keep up and i have tried to pass them again, til i lose control trying too hard annoying when someone does say blue flag let me pass etc i agree thats annoying

hi,

Quote :

BlueSkunk: No problem. Just connect to the FM Junkies Server. There is written: Obey blue flag, get out of the line and let faster cars pass, don´t block. That´s good enough as a reason for me.

i understand what you're saying. but what you do is write your own rules which is probably o.k. for your own server. i'm talking about the commonly accepted version of it as it is being found on all other servers (i admit i never went on your server as i don't drive in ovals).

and the issue of hotlaps and drafting is definitely deserving its own thread.

thanks for the input.

:-)

Quote from Crazy Harry :

don't fight the other car

This i believe is the only really universal part.

Quote from Crazy Harry :

You have to let pass faster cars on the oval, so you can´t hold your line, that is blocking, so you have to leave the best line. Same on tracks like Westhill

Westhill has two enormous straights, you don't need to leave your line.

Quote from filur :

Westhill has two enormous straights, you don't need to leave your line.

Sure, but if you reach a backmarker AFTER the start/finish straight? What to do? Wait till you passed the tire chicane to pass him on the second straight? You will loose up to 10 sec.!

The topic of what the Blue Flag means has been discussed many times. The best, and most comprehensive IMO is here. Blue Flag does NOT mean "get out of the way" during a race, according to the FIA.

This is LFS, rather than real-life racing, and so the rules are basically whatever the server admins decide they are. If they decide that Blue Flag DOES mean "move aside and slow down", or words to that effect, then that has to be respected. Their server, their rules etc, but I think that they really ought to make it clear in their welcome message if they're deviating from the established rules, or it's not being fair to people who join when they get kicked for following the REAL rules, rather than the server's.

There is a lot of misunderstanding about the Blue Flag rule. You probably have to concede that a lot of people, who SHOULD know better, just don't.. and they continue to believe you need to pull over and let them through. Unless you do so, expect grief.

And why would you want to lower your pb even 2 seconds lower than the wr? Do you want to boast with your pbs? Duh... it's about the racing. I know that pb table shows your skills somewhat but that's not all that counts.

Quote :

You are wrong again. It´s not about staying behind a car. I´s about drafting and changing positions several times a lap to use the slipstream to lower your pb and to raise your speed.
...

Harry, that's not true, I've seen what you oval guys do. Stay in the slipstream at say 60% throttle and only overtake the one in front in the last lap. Pretty exciting huh?

Quote from Crazy Harry :

That´s wrong.

With the BF1 f.e. you need draft to lower your pb. Binds like "BLUE FLAG! GET OUT OF THE LINE" are needed often, a lot of peope ignore the blue flag.

But what makes you so special that everyone else has to get out of your way? The slower driver has as much right to the racing line as you. If he is in mid corner just as you arrive behind he is perfectly within his rights to take the line through the corner and let you pass after with a slight lift on exit. Ofcourse clever drivers being blue flagged will try and ensure the faster car doesn't end up behind mid corner but this isn't always possible.

Quote from Crazy Harry :

Sure, but if you reach a backmarker AFTER the start/finish straight? What to do? Wait till you passed the tire chicane to pass him on the second straight? You will loose up to 10 sec.!

The passing driver is fully responsible for making a safe pass, so you wait until it's safe to pass whether the backmarker helps you or not. If the car drives so slow that you'd loose 10 seconds before the next straight there's no way he could hold you behind anyway.

Quote from Crazy Harry :

BLUE FLAG DOES MEAN GET OFF THE RACING LINE.

On the oval f.e.: Stay right, don´t brake, go wide in corners.

No it categorically does not. It means there is a faster driver behind and you should allow them to pass as soon as it is safe to do so.

It is up to the lapper to pass the lappee. In no form of motorsport is the lappee expected to just move off the racing line, although he is expected to not fight or try to keep them behind - sensible yeilding in other words. If that requires the lappee to move offline then so be it (it's his call), but it is not obligatory.

Last time I checked it's the same in real life oval racing - the slower cars don't have to move offline, just lift a little to assist the faster guys.

At Westhill there are loads of straights, so you just have to overtake them then. Assuming you mean the Sauber, then if you lose loads of time then that's great - it's what happens in real life too when the lapper doesn't plan when/where he'll lap the lappee.

For clarity, perhaps it needs pointing out/reiterating that Harry's FM server does have its own rules, which are clearly indicated and very different from real-life rules.

Harry, for the sake of avoiding confusion, when you're talking about racing rules, please make sure you distinguish between talking about FM rules or your understanding of real-life rules. If you don't, people may think that you don't understand the real-life rules and we'll descend into some pretty ugly postings.

Quote from Crazy Harry :

You are wrong again. It´s not about staying behind a car. I´s about drafting and changing positions several times a lap to use the slipstream to lower your pb and to raise your speed. Driving alone is much more easy as drafting with 1, 2 or 3 buddies. Try it, you will agree.

BlueSkunk: No problem. Just connect to the FM Junkies Server. There is written: Obey blue flag, get out of the line and let faster cars pass, don´t block. That´s good enough as a reason for me.

Quote:
"- If you are being lapped by a faster car: The car behind you is consistently faster than you and has managed to travel one more lap than you have. He is about to overtake you and the blue flag is displayed to warn you of his presence.
In this case you are hindering his progress and must allow him to pass you as soon as it is safe to do so (you can't be expected to yield while negotiating a chicane or high speed corner) Hold your line don't fight the other car, do not make any sudden movements left or right, ease off slightly and let him pass. He is a lap ahead of you and you are not fighting him for position. You must not hold him up."

You have to let pass faster cars on the oval, so you can´t hold your line, that is blocking, so you have to leave the best line. Same on tracks like Westhill. The track is so fast that it is nearly impossible to drive fast away from the perfect line. So best will be to leave the line if you are blue flaged.

Erm you've contradicted yourself some what. The part you've put in bold says the back marker should hold his line and not fight the car, like it's in any form of motorsport I know run by FIA and MSA.

You seem to think that backmarkers can't cost you time at all, that they should take all sorts of action to get out of your way. Well your talking a load of crap, part of the skill in racing is thinking about back markers and using them to your advantage. A la the best move in F1 Hakkinen on Schumacher, Spa back marker in the middle - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YMC2_TfpsE

I lost two possible wins yesterday down to back markers and a couple of chances at passing for the lead but then I was advantaged by them as well at other times during the races. You think I was screaming in my helmet at the karts in front "GET OFF THE LINE", no because it's my responsibility to get pass them. All they have to do is hold the line and not defend.

To respond to your earlier comment, no I wont try oval racing. To me it's boring, I rather fight side by side through lefts and rights to put to test my skills at slowing the car down as late as possible.

Quote from K.David :

And why would you want to lower your pb even 2 seconds lower than the wr? Do you want to boast with your pbs? Duh... it's about the racing. I know that pb table shows your skills somewhat but that's not all that counts.

Harry, that's not true, I've seen what you oval guys do. Stay in the slipstream at say 60% throttle and only overtake the one in front in the last lap. Pretty exciting huh?

Hm... the last part sound strange to me. Maybe you see some guys who are a little blit egoistic. Sure no FM guy. To make it clear. We sometimes like to get the "lowest pb reachable". That´s why we use bumpdrafting sometimes. That means NOt stay in the slipüstream with 60% throttle. Bumpdrafting means to PUSH the car in front the whole lap. And for us it´s no gentlemen agreement to push someone 7 laps and overtake in lap 8. If you push, you stay behind the whole time and you don´t try to win.
We often drive the fastest car on the fastest track. BF1 on KY1. After ..erm.. 20000 laps "normal" racing is not the fun sometimes. So we try to get faster and faster. But without cheating. Watch the short replays, maybe you can understand the kind of fun we like. =)

@SamH. I agree. We run this server for a long time and we have tried a lot of things to keep the track "clear". SHIFT+S after crash and going wide in blue flag is in our opinion the most easy rules to understand. Sure it has NOTHING to do with the reality on circuits. But IMHO the oval rules IRL are a little bit different to circuit rules. I´m not interested in Formula Sports IRL, I only know about the rules that I read here.