I just have to mention this!

When at low speeds, the traction control of the BF1 is really strange. The traction control limits the amount of power for the car, and I think it limit it WAY too close to the edge of losing grip. It needs to limit the power so that you don't have any wheelspin AT ALL. Because right now you can burn the tires at low speeds and leave skidmarks with the traction control, and it is really crappy when you are turning in very low speed corners... it gets in the way when your car is actually in control. You have this sort of sliding feel to the car and you think you should be in control, but you arent because it is allowing such a small amount of wheelspin to the car. So I suggest that it needs to allow more grip rather than a small amount of wheelspin. Plus you are heating up your tires really bad, which is another problem with the TC.

This has nothing to do with the allowed wheelspin percentage on the car, it is the way the TC works. Because no matter what percentage you can set, it will always allow some sliding at low speeds. I don't know any other way of describing it so here is my advanced chart :

Current TC at lowspeeds:
GRIP ------ LIGHT SLIPPAGE ------ BURNOUT
[_______________|____________________]

Suggested TC at lowspeeds:
GRIP ------ LIGHT SLIPPAGE ------ BURNOUT
[________|___________________________]

Heheh. Well I guess that is easier to visualize. Basically, just limit the power at low speeds to a much lower power level so that it does not create slippage. TC needs to be perfected, because the BF1 just drifts way too much at low speeds, and even high speeds.

Not the same as having the TC kick-in speed slider go lower then?

be able to set a lower meter per second value and youre set....

Surely that's how real life TC works though? Isn't the optimum traction when the tyres are just slipping? It also doesn't detect it needs to kick in until the wheels spin so you have to take into account all that is going on.

In real life F1 drivers aren't stamping on the throttle, they are pressing it quicker and harder than without TC but I'm pretty sure they aren't just flooring it. They like to try use as little TC as possible.

Quote from keiran :

Surely that's how real life TC works though? Isn't the optimum traction when the tyres are just slipping?

Well it for sure isn't optimum at all in the BF1 when the tires are slipping. I hope you guys know what I am talking about when the TC kicks in at low speeds and you are just sliding all over the place uncontrollably.

Like Micha said, something to set for how much it slips at low speeds would be nice. Because I'd really prefer to have very minimal slipping at low speeds (especially when the tires are hot), and have very little TC at higher speeds. If I wanted little or no TC at all for high speeds, I have to raise the "allowed wheelspin" to something like 5% or higher. But this makes low speeds just awful. So there needs to be a bit more advanced TC. That kind of answers your question too Bob

In F1 the current rules state that Traction Control cannot be used below 100KPH AFAIK.

They also say that no car may have "two braking systems" ... I assume that a handbrake would count as one.

Quote from keiran :

Isn't the optimum traction when the tyres are just slipping?

Well, you accelerate faster when the tires are slipping a little bit because losing traction slightly just doesn't slow you down as much as letting off the throttle does.

Quote from duke_toaster :

In F1 the current rules state that Traction Control cannot be used below 100KPH AFAIK.

Odd, that's about the only time it's useful.

Quote from duke_toaster :

In F1 the current rules state that Traction Control cannot be used below 100KPH AFAIK.

The current F1 rules make no reference to traction control whatsoever...pretty much anything goes!

I think the problem to which Tweaker is referring is that the TC allows enough longitudinal slippage to degrade the lateral traction of the tyre, so you can slide the car quite a lot at low speeds with TC enabled. What you'd have to do to solve this is reduce the 'Wheelspin' percentage or (one for Scawen) make the allowed wheelspin variable with car speed.

i still want 2 mode TC (ie one "granny" mode for when things get hairy, like grass and one "manly" mode for going really quick on tarmac)

Actually, it does reference TC in the rules.

For the start, where 'Launch Control' is not allowed anymore, the traction control must not be used until a speed of 100km/h is reached, so to avoid 'Traction Control Launch Control'. After the start, and after the car has reached 100km/h it may be used freely.

I don't drive the BF1 enough to comment. It seems slippery at low speeds to me, but thats probably just due to lack of seat time.

no, its pretty slick, im not sure yet if its low speed traction problems still, the way tire spinning works through LFS, or if the tires are cold compared to preheated tires in real F1

Well, let's be happy that LFS has still the most advanced TC in any sim game. E.g. rFactor has licensed BMW-Sauber too (if you didn't know) and it doesn't have adjustable TC at all. Though there are in the difficulty options TC = off/low/high setting but I claim that's just a some kind of driving help, could be probably called as "throttle help".

Well, I recall quite a few drivers spinning out on the formation lap while heating their tyres on Formula1 races...

Juan Pablo Montoya and Pedro de la Rosa this year, and no other than Michael Schumacher last year at China. So could it be that TC actually DOES work on the edge of losing grip at low speeds...? Maybe they turned off the TC on that lap, but it's a thought I had to share anyway.

ya, i can only imagine it wouldn't be on then for the sake of sliding the car around to heat up the tires

Quote from tristancliffe :

Actually, it does reference TC in the rules.

For the start, where 'Launch Control' is not allowed anymore, the traction control must not be used until a speed of 100km/h is reached, so to avoid 'Traction Control Launch Control'. After the start, and after the car has reached 100km/h it may be used freely.

Umm...where? I've read through the whole of the 2006 F1 Technical Regulations and traction control is not mentioned once. There are only two rules regarding 'race start' and neither of them mention traction (or launch) control.

Guys, for an example of advanced TC much better then the current flatliner the BF1 runs, try this game:

Jacque Villenuarve's Speed Challenge

It's basically a "sim" of what F-1 could be ib the future (nanotech auto-repair, Vr, etc). Granted, its physics model isn't quite as advanced as LFS. It does, however, have the most advanced traction control (in a game) I've seen so far. It's a speed dependant TC that allows different TC slip settings for different speeds, and the TC works at ALL speeds.

BTW, it also features EXCELLENT ABS brakes.

Quote from StewartFisher :

Umm...where? I've read through the whole of the 2006 F1 Technical Regulations and traction control is not mentioned once. There are only two rules regarding 'race start' and neither of them mention traction (or launch) control.

That's a good point - I don't know. but you and I both know that Launch Control is banned, and that the driver must be controlling the car at race starts himself (i.e. clutch control and wheelspin control). But the word Launch isn't in either the Technical or Sporting regulations, so I don't know where it's hidden.

Launch Control IS banned, but not mentioned in either reg I'd imagine the TC bit would be near wherever the Launch Control bit is mentioned...

Quote from Jamexing :

Jacque Villenuarve's Speed Challenge

It's basically a "sim" of what F-1 could be ib the future (nanotech auto-repair, Vr, etc). Granted, its physics model isn't quite as advanced as LFS. It does, however, have the most advanced traction control (in a game) I've seen so far. It's a speed dependant TC that allows different TC slip settings for different speeds, and the TC works at ALL speeds.

Wasn't the one with cars that were designed (other than the technology) by chimps on LSD?

You thought those futuristic possibilities were UGLY? Try the 2008 regs for F-1 wings. 2 Rear winged FUGLINESS.

Anyway, isn't this thread about suggestions for a better TC, not some subjective opinions of car "styling"? Just get back on topic guys.

Today I was watching the Turkish GP (wasn't able to watch it before). And somewhere at the beginning there was a shot from Kubica driving out of a slow corner. Seen from the back. And it looked exactly the same as it looks when accelerating out of turn 1 at Blackwood with the BF1.

In response to: Jamexing

http://www.fia.com/resources/i ... 82256506__CDG_graphic.jpg

OH DEAR

Quote from Darkone55 :

Today I was watching the Turkish GP (wasn't able to watch it before). And somewhere at the beginning there was a shot from Kubica driving out of a slow corner. Seen from the back. And it looked exactly the same as it looks when accelerating out of turn 1 at Blackwood with the BF1.

You really think that they have continuous low speed traction loss when the TC is engaged???

The TC in LFS is not perfect. Low speed acceleration whilst exiting a turn is a bit strange. And if you do ease off and blip the throttle a bit, that makes it even worse. And that has nothing to do with the engine braking settings apparently. It feels as if the wheels are locked and constantly in a high-slip mode for TC, and yo just cannot get rid of it unless you want to slow down a whole lot and look like a noob on the track.

The low-speed traction loss when TC is on is for a prolonged amount of time. Don't you think the TC should be "smart" enough to help you if you keep spinning the tires to a point where it could result in a spin or bad control? The slight slippage it allows in the beginning is fine with me, that should seem normal for TC, but when it keeps allowing the slippage while in a turn and you KNOW it isn't good, the TC should do more than just retain the allowed amount, it should help a bit more.

@DaveWS, wth is that, totally off topic :doh: