I have JavaScript enabled, I don't visit sites with naughty JSs
And even if I would - Firefox+AdBlock Plus works wonders, always blocking that GoogleAnalytics.js
Just curious, but why would you want to block that?
I'm trying to get a sense of why people are blocking javascript. I must say I really do like it, because it comes standard with every modern browser (no extra loading time for plugins) and it can give nice additions to webpages. So when people block JS, I'd like to know why. Do you feel it's dangerous somehow? Google analytics shouldn't interfere with your browsing experience shoud it? (apart from some additional loading time, which would be the only reason i can think of to block it)
Voted option 1, always enabled, i like the possibilites but don't like 95% of javascript content i come across. AJAX is very neat.
Most javascript i see adds basically nothing, a bit like making a simple static website by putting the text in SQL and pulling it with PHP, needlessly complicated and will probably break sooner then that good old .html file. A site built with javascript is also probably much harder to archive or make use of without a (modern) browser. The only 'new' technology for simple websites that actually improve anything compared to building simple sites 10 years ago is css, imho.
LFS World works really good though, some things are annoying at times but i'm quite sure it would take more time to navigate if it was a 'normal' site.
When it comes to LFS I would enable anything that is required because it is content that I want from an author I trust. However if the main web site frontpage wanted to install stuff or gave some script error or didnt work on whatever machine I first went to it on, then i'd never have bought the game, and that's the bottom line.
I couldn't care if LFS had been written in notepadBASIC, you can't judge anything on the tools used to create it (only admire the skill of some people who use the wrong tool for the job and still produce a good final result).
There you touched the hidden topic. Orion an i already tried a new lfsworld a little while ago and it started out with a lot of javascript again. But I'm having doubts about this. The (very imo) nice thing is that you can optimise traffic a LOT by making use of javascript to build webpages, especially a website like LFS World that has tons of 'different' pages to display (different stats for everyone), combined with AJAX features (and I'm not even talking about features like drag and drop that can be very useful for a site like LFS World). The downside is as has been mentioned by some already, it breaks some of a browser's features.
So what I'm looking for is a balance. And that's why my previous post asked for clarification about why he thought the current LFS World is over the top.
I could take it the official road - first make a working "html-only" version and then add javascript functionality (like the forum basically). But then i don't have the nice traffic optimisation mentioned above. For some reason the thought to reload an entire page with every click just doesn't make sense to me
But then in the end, I guess that's what it'll come down to for the most part anyway. Bit disappointing, but we'll have to live with it I guess.
It seems a bit fishy to me. I don't know what exactly it does (in fact I don't really care what exactly it does) and it runs silently in the background. Plus there must be a reason why it is in the Adblock-suscription list.
I don't see why Adblock would block Google Analytics. It's not fishy at all. It just shows the website owner info about the websites traffic. If everybody blocked it, they would be screwing up businesses which use Google Analytics.
I voted #1 because I love JavaScript from a functionality point of view. Although I despise websites with stupid clocks chasing your cursor etc, it's not JavaScript but the abuse of it that annoys me. I'm not into JavaScript purely for the sake of eye-candy at all.
When my IE is poorly, though (PC not restarted for a few days/weeks, and some TSRs hovering in the background), the first thing to cause crashes is a JavaScript-heavy website. Even functional JavaScript pushes my IE over the edge on those days, so if I'm asked which I prefer, flat HTML is always my preference
Actually, kege described all the acpects in a very clear way (or at least I agree totally to what he said):
It's very important that a website has a "common sense" in it - the user must be able to predict what happens when he clicks button x/y/z. For example, a link has an underline, and it doesnt make sense to style a link with exactly the same CSS as the floating text around it, because the user doesnt want to play hide and seek
One of the most important aspects of web browsing are things like the "back button", which doesnt work in lfsw. Also, you cant open 2 windows of the same time at once. It's not possible to watch my own stats and the one from somone else, unless I open 2 windows.
But lfsw was supposed to work in one window, as there is an internal content window management.
I tried to implement a browsing history ony my personal page, and it worked quite ok, I set the window titles aswell in order to have a usable browsing history/bookmarks.
Tabs make the site navigation more complex again, by adding another layer in the logical tree-like structure. Besides that, Im aware almost nobody knows how they really work, even though its written in the tips (you can for example reload the current tab by clicking the active tab again, etc.).
Like you cant open 2 instances of a window, you can't view 2 tabs at once.
The idea using icons is very good though, and they work quite well imo (also put a LOT of thought into them... "brand building" -> coffee icon for example ).
The only icon I dont like at all is the races history icon (called "online race results"), which really sounds like "online racer stats", so Im still confusing it all the time...
Icons are images, and people understand icons much quicker than text. You can also recognise an icon within many, which is often a struggle when talking about text.
Generally, the stats are a bit in the background, you don't really get an overview of "whats going on in the lfs world". Specially the WR section is fading out of interest, and thats not just because hotlapping in S2 is quite boring because of the long (and wheel killing) procedure to heat the tyres.
You simply have to click too often in order to reach a chart for a certain car/track combo. Im really happy we made the overview chart, beause without it, nobody would have even a lick of a clue what's going on in that WR section.
Im not sure what Im allowed to say here, but at least we thought about some way to "find" pages directly by using short words, a bit like you do in lfs with "/w pb ORION" for example.
Also, that test lfsw was more focussed on communication things, which was very nice to use.
Let me dream a bit...
In 2011 (when S3 is out already), Im back home from work in my car, when I get an SMS telling me that one of my teammates has just joined a server. I reply and lfsw reserves the slot on the server by estimating when I will be back home, using GPS.
I notice on my way that it starts to rain, so send a quick SMS to some racers who will be racing in a league that evening, which uses realtime wheather data, and as the real built Blackwood racetrack is not too far from my home, one can expect rain there when the league is about to start. So my mates are warned and can use rain tyres and win the race
When coming home, lfsw automatically boots my computer, downlaods the latest wr replay and setup, installs it, and plays the wr replay as ghostcar. Of course I already joined the server automatically.
After a race, you can check all kind of data, you can compare any stat, the tyre wear over time, the average full throttle time, G-forces, lap and split times, maximum amount of flies that were killed on your windshield per minute - everything.
lfsw allows you to create your own graphs by setting various graph types, which allow you to assign stats arrays to an axis, and this for as many users as you want.
You can also create a "race favourites circle", which shows which tracks/cars/combos you drive most. (like this)
You can also search other racers who like the same cars/tracks/combos like you, or race at the same day times.
Of course, it's possible to download the replays from the race if you didnt record them yourselves. If you want to see lap 356 of a replay, lfsw will only download this lap, so you dont have to download them all
[EDIT]
now I dont like js anymore because the vB editor screwed up (the text window just disappeared), so I lost a few lines text :S
Strangely enough, this ties in with what ORION's just posted, and the whole topic, despite sounding grossly off-topic.
I use XP, and I'm used to the Microsoft environment. I'm 40, so I'm old, which means that after 10 years of surfing the internet and encountering tens of thousands of variations in GUI interpretation, I'm TIRED and I want something familiar.. and I'm less empassioned by different concepts in menu structures and link colours/decorations than ever before. I want simple point-and-click, that's common across everything I do. Anything that breaks away from the familiar, and requires "learning" begins to meet opposition from the back of my eyes and continues to, all the way to the back of my head, automatically.
I use Firefox with NoScript and only allow it for trusted sites and when it is useful eg Gmail and LFSWorld. It's fantastic if it's used right but stuff like MSN Spaces' horribly slow attempt at AJAX is what annoys me.
The concept of LFSW Desktop can work right now if it just ran faster and was easier to navigate. Some say they think it is easy already, but there are different opinions. So it shouldn't be hard to focus the site design and structure on both of our needs. There are some limitations to how easy you can make it browsable because for one, people with low resolutions need to see content AND the menu icons. Usually you cover up the menu and have to drag around stuff. It just isn't typical for a website, and specifically a stats website.
Furthermore, it would run faster if you didn't have the windows utilize so much imagery. They may be small filesize, but the smoothest running Ajax and JS sites always use more CSS than a lot of imagery and effects (using a simple background image at the most). Something like how Flickr works, or even Digg. They are fun and easy to use, yet they look so simple on the outside.
I just feel that LFSW has all the information and stats us racers need, but it just isn't a 'stats' page like you would normally visit. The original LFSW could've been improved, and I thought it was rather simple. But you need to have LFSW like a "page" and not multiple windows within one page. I don't mine reloading page after page, but there are some areas in which I am sure you could improvise and make pages run smoothly without reloading.
So regarding Javascript, yes go ahead and use it, I don't care. But like I said, it is how you use it which makes the difference for whatever concept you have for a website.
I agree. The current LFS World is an amazing tour de force in JS programming, and it contains lots of useful features, but.... It's a web site that is trying very hard to NOT look like a website. Instead, it tries to look like a (Windows) desktop. And even though it succeeds to a surprisingly large extent, it's not. The similarity breaks here and there, and that's confusing for users.
I think LFSW2 should make a clear choice. It should either be a Windows app or a web site. But whatever you choose, LFSW2 should be recognizable as such.
If it's a Windows app, it should conform to the usual UI guidelines. It can pull its data from a central server and do lots of client-side processing. But it will have to be installed by the user, and it's hard to add new features quickly.
If it's a web site, it should have pages and single-click links. You will probably have to use some client-side scripting (JS, AJAX) for graphs and other complex stuff, but maybe that can be avoided for the standard stuff.
I'd go for a windows desktop app: it would still have all of the current LFSW features but much faster.
Only drawback I can think of is that you would need to install it in every computer you want to use it, but actually there arent many times I check the WR@AS7R from the office...
It's not a bad idea, but having a website is easier for anyone to view. And you can link to stats, hotlaps, and all that stuff. If it lost a web presence, then there really would be no point in having LFSW.
You can always make it feel like an application if you just load it up in your browser and have a properly made UI. The Javascript would make it come to life.
LFSW is by far the best implementation of Javascript I've seen. Many other places that have it implemented make it clunky and gross. JS is a very usable language, and adds lots to sites, but there are always the morons who abuse it, then refuse any suggestions on how to make it better.
illepall
The Javascript would make it come to life.