Back in 2009 I've created a mod which would replaced FBM with The Forbidden Hatchback. The mod was made in a way that it didn't overwrite any of the original files - it had it's own exe, vob, eng and dds files, so you could still launch the unmodified game with the original exe or the modded game with the second exe

Texturing with the unofficial "LFS Car Importer" was nowhere near as easy as it is now with the LFS Editor so I had to take some shortcuts and skip a few smaller mappings. Seats were the hardest part since the front seats alone are made out of around 50 mappings. I took a screenshot of the seats in the LFS Skin Viewer and mapped that onto the seats instead, reducing the amount of mappings to around 8. Brake lights used 1 mapping instead of 3... and so on. I even got the red LCD in the middle to work, but it wasn't functional. Time was always 1:18
Here is some screenshots of the original mod from 2009:
https://i.imgur.com/4VRZ6g9.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/11xFzrZ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/SYEUUJP.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/XqSPyuZ.jpg

I must have spent a few hundred hours on it. Most of that went into analyzing which values in the exe do I need to change to get the specifications correct - weight, weight distribution, horsepower, driver and steering wheel position, wheel/tyre position and size, transform rear suspension to double wishbone, etc.
In the end - I never released the mod and barely shown it to anyone. I guess I didn't want to anger the devs. I even modified the exe so that it would require S1 license to use the car, but still...


Fast forward to 2022 - vehicle mods are now officially supported. Despite a catastrophic failure of my harddrive in 2021, I was able to find the mod on my old decommissioned HDD and I've started the resurrection of the project. This time with the proper tools I was able to create a 1:1 copy of the car you can see in the LFS Skin Viewer. I had to redo all the mappings (250+):



Redone smoothing groups from scratch, traingle by triangle...


Normal contribution levels... I didn't even know this was a thing, but it made sense since my original mod didn't look right in some places. I had to do some guessing here since there is no way to see them in the LFS Skin Viever. I did them based on how they look on the latest Eric's creation - updated RB4. Looks much better in the game with them assigned.


I've made a pretty good LOD2, so the shadow is very accurate and the car doesn't turn into a brick at distance like some other mods:



This is how it looks currently in the game:






Of course it is fully compatible with all the skins created in LFS Skin Viewer since 2008:


Currently the entire body is assigned to a single color slider, I think I will assign the hood to a second slider like in most other LFS cars... or maybe hood and hatch?

I also did my best to get the specification as close to reality as possible. I found exact gear ratios, weight, fuel tank capacity, track width, etc. I did the engine curve based on the dyno charts I found on the internet. Front suspension is McPherson and the rear is Double Wishbone since this is the closest thing to the multilink suspension of the real deal. I've tried to get the arms length and pivot points somewhat close to where they should be, based on photos. Weight distribution from what I've managed to find should be around 64% front, I have it currently at 64.2%. I will need feedback on the suspension once I release it.
I'm not sure what to do with the diff. Real thing doesn't have LSD but does have Electronic Differential Lock (EDL) - which doesn't exist in LFS. I guess I will make it open-diff in the stock setup and let the players slap the LSD on in the custom setups.

Anyway, the mod is 97% ready to be released as WIP, since I'm starting to run out of things I can improve without feedback. I mean - it will probably get rejected by the devs... but let's hope Eric will bless this mod - since he is the author of this beautiful 3D model.

Hard to believe it's been 13 years since the December 2008 fiasco

Amazing! Cannot wait to try it! Ah!

EDIT: probably will be rejected

That engine badge lmao

oh wow thats interesting.. ;D

amazing, good luck

I've submitted it for review. Please go upvote it if you want to see it in the game. Let's hope it goes trough without issues
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/97516-VAGEEN-SI-COCCO-2-0-TITS

Already denied because "we can't permit LFS models to be used in LFS".

God what a waste of time. I worked so hard to make it perfect. Should have released it back in 2010

Let's wait a few more decades, maybe they will finally release it into the game as part of the Historic Cars Pack

We can drive trashcans now, but Scirocco with physics slightly off (yet way ahead of what would be possible in other games) - unimaginable

I can´t belive this

"...would replaced FBM with ..." FBM is a jewel to race !! please, do not touch at this one

Quote from Tomfuel :

"...would replaced FBM with ..." FBM is a jewel to race !! please, do not touch at this one

Thank you for not reading past the first sentence. After all this mod was nothing but a huge waste of time, just like reading this thread is.

Quote from Amynue :

Thank you for not reading past the first sentence. After all this mod was nothing but a huge waste of time, just like reading this thread is.

If i'm honest, it seems like you already had a hunch it'd be a time waste:

Quote from Amynue :

I mean - it will probably get rejected by the devs

But you can also think positively and consider it LFS Editor practise.

I can see the work that's put into the mod and the end result is very good, but i'll have to side with the devs in this case, i would rather see it in it's intended way, instead of a mod.

Quote from Amynue :

Already denied because "we can't permit LFS models to be used in LFS".

God what a waste of time. I worked so hard to make it perfect. Should have released it back in 2010

Let's wait a few more decades, maybe they will finally release it into the game as part of the Historic Cars Pack

We can drive trashcans now, but Scirocco with physics slightly off (yet way ahead of what would be possible in other games) - unimaginable

strange ... cannot you make it an 'R' version if proposing the exact model being sensitive ? As I do not think there would be a rule for tuning the FBM or the mrt5 for instance ...

Quote from Flotch :

strange ... cannot you make it an 'R' version if proposing the exact model being sensitive ? As I do not think there would be a rule for tuning the FBM or the mrt5 for instance ...

FBM is not part of the editor though. But as for the MRT5 and RAC, i would assume there is permission given by their "owners" for using these cars as a basis for building something

but this apply only if you make an exact replica with the logo of the brand, in this case, Amynue seems to have changed it, so ...

Quote from Amynue :

Already denied because "we can't permit LFS models to be used in LFS".

That is a false quote. The true quote is this:

Quote :

I am very sorry but as this is the LFS model from the LFS viewer and using LFS textures, that would mean we have to give you permission to use it. But that permission is not ours to give.

From here: https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1990810#post1990810

As with anyone who has worked on a mod with questionable license, and had to have it refused, I feel sorry for you, for the time you have put into it. But VW didn't give us a contract that says we can freely share their model with other people to use for their own purposes.

As you can see in the LFS editor, certain cars have been omitted. That is because we don't have any reason to believe we have the right to distribute editable copies of them.

Quote from Scawen :

VW didn't give us a contract that says we can freely share their model with other people to use for their own purposes.

I don't want to use it for my own purposes, I want to upload it to LFS servers so that LFS players can use it in LFS. The model was obtained from LFS Viewer and exported into LFS with the use of LFS Editor.
It's not like I'm trying to make a paid mod for GTA out of it - now that would be "use for my own purposes".

Oh look, someone took your model and customized it to create a render outside of LFS with the use of a 3rd party software:
https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1332155#post1332155
But no problems there

Snowrunner - for example - also has official support for vehicle mods. People modify licensed trucks from the game and release it on the official mod repository:
https://snowrunner.mod.io/
Players put custom wheels on them, bumpers, engines, paintjobs and attachments. Some even turn licensed vehicles into monster trucks

But in this case I didn't even modify the model (other than the badge textures which I thought was necessary).

Quote from Scawen :

we don't have any reason to believe we have the right to distribute editable copies of them.

Then explain why people are allowed to wrap Formula BMW in a Mercedes AMG livery? They can upload the skin to LFS servers, post it on LFS Forums and drive it like this online in LFS?
https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1973475#post1973475

I wonder what would be the official VW answer to this if they are asked?

Quote from Evolution_R :

I wonder what would be the official VW answer to this if they are asked?

Probably - "Are you trying to tell me you still haven't released it after 13 years !?!"

Quote from Amynue :

I don't want to use it for my own purposes, I want to upload it to LFS servers so that LFS players can use it in LFS. The model was obtained from LFS Viewer and exported into LFS with the use of LFS Editor.
It's not like I'm trying to make a paid mod for GTA out of it - now that would be "use for my own purposes".

Oh look, someone took your model and customized it to create a render outside of LFS with the use of a 3rd party software:
https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1332155#post1332155
But no problems there

Snowrunner - for example - also has official support for vehicle mods. People modify licensed trucks from the game and release it on the official mod repository:
https://snowrunner.mod.io/
Players put custom wheels on them, bumpers, engines, paintjobs and attachments. Some even turn licensed vehicles into monster trucks

But in this case I didn't even modify the model (other than the badge textures which I thought was necessary).


Then explain why people are allowed to wrap Formula BMW in a Mercedes AMG livery? They can upload the skin to LFS servers, post it on LFS Forums and drive it like this online in LFS?
https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1973475#post1973475

Yeah the copyright moderation has pretty much ruined LFS mods for me. Completely unnecessary and over the top.

Much bigger games and companies have no issue with it, so why are people being so pesky about it in LFS which is really isn't that popular in comparison to other current racing titles?

https://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?forums/general-modding-discussion.26/

https://steamcommunity.com/app/365960/workshop/

http://driftstreetsjapan.com/mydownloads.php

https://steamcommunity.com/app/497180/workshop/

https://www.beamng.com/resources/

Quote from BeNoM :

Much bigger games and companies have no issue with it, so why are people being so pesky about it in LFS which is really isn't that popular in comparison to other current racing titles?

BeamNG mods may not contain copyrighted content: (source)

Quote :

You are not allowed to use copyrighted content in your mods.

Assetto Corsa stopped supporting copyrighted mods without permission on their website some time ago: (source)

Quote :

Conversions of original content is not what we would like to see coming in Assetto Corsa.
We hope to see only original content coming to AC from modders.

Converting cars, tracks and other copyrighted content from other software without the permission of the author is strictly prohibited and subject to infraction.

Every reported post with unauthorized/copyrighted/ripped content (track, car, skin, even media and so on), will result in a ban, without any warning, for the author. We tried to be "soft", but clearly it didn't work, so now we'll apply the rules.

Quote from Amynue :

Oh look, someone took your model and customized it to create a render outside of LFS with the use of a 3rd party software:
https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1332155#post1332155
But no problems there

Such usage may fall under fair use doctrine. The material (model in this case) was copied for one-time use (creation of render). The resulting work is not being sold or used for commercial means (e.g. advertisement), and the effect of usage is rather minimal.

Quote from Amynue :

Snowrunner - for example - also has official support for vehicle mods. People modify licensed trucks from the game and release it on the official mod repository:
https://snowrunner.mod.io/
Players put custom wheels on them, bumpers, engines, paintjobs and attachments. Some even turn licensed vehicles into monster trucks

I bet Snowrunner received a permission from copyright owner to let its users modify their models solely for the purpose of creating mods. That is not the case of LFS.

Quote from Amynue :

Then explain why people are allowed to wrap Formula BMW in a Mercedes AMG livery? They can upload the skin to LFS servers, post it on LFS Forums and drive it like this online in LFS?
https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1973475#post1973475

The fair use doctrine should be addressed again to explain this. First of all, the usage of skin is not related to commercial purposes. You may not agree with me because one has to pay for license/skin slots to upload the skins, but in order to download/view the skins either in game or forums one doesn't have to pay anything. The effect of such usage is minimal as well. The logotypes are indeed copyrighted works, but the skin itself is not part of the game, it's user content, just like forum avatars, therefore the responsibility of usage lies not on LFS developers, but on user itself. Obviously, if a company approaches LFS and asks them to remove the content, they have to do so.

You may ask me: how does LFS mods system differs from this case? Here is the answer: LFS mods system is centralized and paid. When you submit the mod and it is approved, it becomes part of game's content. The usage of such content has clear commercial purpose: you can't use it without the license. Content is being used for unlimited times and the effect of usage is bigger, because LFS gains profit from using these models via S3 sales and that may be considered as loss of profit for copyright owner. You can't copy someone's model and reuse it without permission in this case, even if you copy from LFS itself.

Quote :

Much bigger games and companies have no issue with it

That is not true.
The difference is maybe that most games have no official modsystem or automatic download.
Instead mods are usually hosted on external player-run websites. Such websites are much harder to shut down because anyone can create a new one or re-upload the mod to a filehosting service. But that does not make it legal. And sometimes they do get shut down.

Also when you look at the example games like BeamNG, there is always guidelines like this: https://wiki.beamng.com/Modding_Guidelines.html#To_avoid_.E2.9D.8C

As someone who also played rFactor (which has tons of mods):
It does have the same issues with copyright. The only difference is that unlike LFS, rF does not have an automatic mod download hosted on the official website.
On websites that hosted rF mods it was not uncommon to read threads like this:
https://www.isrtv.com/forums/topic/11732-rfactor-f1-mods-do-not-post-here/

Quote :

Snowrunner - for example - also has official support for vehicle mods. People modify licensed trucks from the game and release it on the official mod repository:
https://snowrunner.mod.io/
Players put custom wheels on them, bumpers, engines, paintjobs and attachments. Some even turn licensed vehicles into monster trucks

But from the comment section it seems they also have restrictions:

Quote :

"Chevy is not allowed to be Modded/Tweaked for Console"

The case of BMW formular car with Mercedes skins is something completly different. First thing, the BMW logos are not removeable and can not be painted over with skins . Second, it is likely part of the contract that the BMW cars can be painted like any other cars.

/edit: Two guys were faster typers than me.
This could have all been avoided by asking beforehand: "Why are are some cars not in the editor?"

Similiar, when looking for 3D models on websites, why not ask the uploader where the file comes from?
Oooh, some guy named xXxTuneStreetSwagLordxXx has uploaded 20 game-quality models in one month, with no website no portfolio, no WIP pictures. He says it is all free to download. Seems legit.
...
Whaaaat? It was a rip from Forza?! How could I have known?

To be honest, I can't understand why you even started on this mod... If it were that easy to just put the vws in the game, the devs would have done it a decade ago. Now you're acting all surprised and upset that you've "wasted" your time and try to justify it by naming all kinds of totally different cases..
Sorry, but are your really that ignorant? You could and should have seen this coming waaaaaay in the beginning before you invested even a second into this mod.

Quote from Sponge :

To be honest, I can't understand why you even started on this mod... If it were that easy to just put the vws in the game, the devs would have done it a decade ago. Now you're acting all surprised and upset that you've "wasted" your time and try to justify it by naming all kinds of totally different cases..
Sorry, but are your really that ignorant? You could and should have seen this coming waaaaaay in the beginning before you invested even a second into this mod.

Majoirity of LFS mods currently available are licensed cars with badges either removed or altered, so I didn't see why Scirocco would be exception from the rules.

According to the Scirocco presentation video they were provided with a "highly detailed 3D object of the car", but Eric created his own less-detailed 3D model based on that. So Eric is the author of the 3D model, not VW.

I think the main issue here is that they don't want anyone to release it before them. If I would use a free model from Sketchfab with CC license, they would probably still deny it for whatever reason.

I really wish they could get it together and finaly release it by themselves, but it is what is

Quote from Amynue :

Majoirity of LFS mods currently available are licensed cars with badges either removed or altered, so I didn't see why Scirocco would be exception from the rules.

According to the Scirocco presentation video they were provided with a "highly detailed 3D object of the car", but Eric created his own less-detailed 3D model based on that. So Eric is the author of the 3D model, not VW.

I think the main issue here is that they don't want anyone to release it before them. If I would use a free model from Sketchfab with CC license, they would probably still deny it for whatever reason.

I really wish they could get it together and finaly release it by themselves, but it is what is

You have to understand that Eric modelled the VW with permission from VW, and with their approval for the use of the likeliness and badging of the car. Just because it was available in LFS Viewer does NOT mean that you are free to use it. The cars available in editor are the ones the developers have given permission to modify, and the VWS is not one of them. Firstly you would need permission from Eric to edit it, as he modelled the mesh, and I doubt you'll receive it. Just because it's in viewer does not make it free to use.