[ EDIT: This thread is from March 2022. Changes have been made but questions still remain.
New posts in 2023: https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/2033558#post2033558 ]

Hello Racers,

I watched the Rallycross event yesterday, it's a really well done race with interesting layouts, short races and joker laps. There are heats and finals. It would be a great race for people who aren't the top racers, as with 3 to 4 lap races you won't end up being lapped or getting in the way. You could just blast around and have fun. The event is live streamed and basically has everything going for it.

Round 1 was great but there were only 11 racers.

Yesterday's event, round 2 only had 7 drivers!

Some other (different) events have had to be cancelled or toned down due to lack of participation.


So what's up?

1) Do people not know about these events? They are on the LFS calendar and we always tweet the weekly calendar that Mandula makes. Of course not everyone has twitter and not everyone looks at the calendar.

2) Do racers know about it but don't want to enter? Aren't interested in showing up at a specific time? Are they worried about getting in people's way? What other reasons for non-participation?

3) Or is it something technical, like they know about races, would like to enter but have difficulty finding out the information and rules?


I'd be really interested in what you have to say, and if there's some way we can help, maybe through the website or the forum. I know that on my side I need to get the tyre physics done so we can release the new tracks. But please can we leave that sort of thing out of the discussion? As LFS is already capable of providing interesting and varied races. I'm more interested in knowing if there is something we can do to help the participation in the existing version.

Hi Scawen,

You are completely right, the real situation is most probably some linear combination of all 3 points that you mentioned.

One thing that comes to my mind is the option to be reminded about the event via email if one subscribes to it, just like when we receive an email that there is a reply in one of the forum threads or posts that we posted in. Some info about the even somewhere in the multiplayer server list is also good idea.

Visibility of events on the forum here and in lfs discord is enough. One can not force people to join, who is interested in such events will find it easily.

My reason is that I have limited time in the weekends. As I still have a social life besides my simrace life. So I just join as many events I can do.

in Christmas times, LigueFR organised yearly a rallycross with really good layouts !
(not carpark like) due to french language promo, no more than 12 drivers but very good spirit with a little final ! so every body run the exact number of races.

now, my reason : sundays is usually for family, outdoors (VTT)
all my races are on the weeks and i must make a choice to have time to train and enjoy the race

i do not want to register on a race, claim a setup the day race 1 minute before start, and doing shit on track cause absolutely no train before. i hate that comportment in my races

so : lack of time beetween my differents registers and weekends is usually for outdoors or family

As the organizer it’s disappointing to see so few drivers turn up against the registration list i have on file here : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OkOwspJ86K8tviCdGb2BmBK8jdRA-1yK98ezuUjBxzU/edit?usp=sharing

I try to keep it fun and simple, always to suggestions/improvements and even offered help (driving and setup wise) to all entrants, i hoped with running 1h early to avoid a clash with F1 more drivers would turn up.

If anybody has a suggestion for improving the attendance i’m all ears, rather have more people on server than drive with the same few drivers to make the events more interesting and fun for all involved.

In my case it's always life getting in the way (doubly-so recently!).

I only sign up for things I've got a good chance of getting to, but it doesn't always work out. I still have hope for the next round

Time zone is an issue for me.
I'm not on social media.
Worried about high latency under race conditions.

No money prize,enough to look at Buggyra,high prize high attendation
Same whit TRR,high prize high attendation

There's like 4 "fun" league that has 30+racers/race

FM GTi Thursday
FM Fox Friday
MRc FBM Saturday
Race Green events


MRc Bf1 League was weird,first 2 round had 30+ drivers then suddenly max 12,car too fast for them

They lose interest bigmens

No, they are modding some buses or some tanks.

The best way to increase attendance would be to put them on the main menu of LFS.

Second best way would be to add an extra menu to LFS beside Single Player, Multiplayer etc.

The main screen is quite empty anyway, there's quite a bit of space there. I know LFS main menu isn't made to be dynamic, but extra menu could probably do the job.

And if you see an event that you're interested in, but lets say its 2 days from now, you could have "remind" option that brings it to main menu. You could even register through there for an upcoming event.

This way everytime you open LFS events are there. You don't need to check your email or social media. And it'd make it much easier to remember to attend.

Quote from Viperakecske :

No money prize,enough to look at Buggyra,high prize high attendation
Same whit TRR,high prize high attendation

There's like 4 "fun" league that has 30+racers/race

FM GTi Thursday
FM Fox Friday
MRc FBM Saturday
Race Green events


MRc Bf1 League was weird,first 2 round had 30+ drivers then suddenly max 12,car too fast for them

With all due respect, i’m paying for the entire broadcast out of my own pocket cuz i believe it can be fun for everyone, i’m not a millionaire or business owner where i can get money from, i’m a normal labourman that tries to build something fun for everyone.

I realize not everybody is interested Rallycross but those signed up i was expecting to attend though, i try my best but I don’t have iRacing pro league budget to pay for my bills

Rallycross isnt popular

There's a bunch of space on the LFS landing screen, maybe you can create a simple News/Calendar UI there?

There's a lot of real estate, and it's the one place everyone who plays LFS visits every time they want to race. It doesn't have to include much info, just enough to direct someone to the relevant page on the lfs.net/leagues system.

You could mimic sbtv calendar or the first 5-10 entries on the lfs.net/leagues listing. E.g.


Include a tab for the latest official news article and a link to the article online, and you're away.

For me, it's sad to see weekend participation hitting an all-time low. It's a lot of effort from a lot of people for us to be preparing for/streaming/stewarding and competing in races with tiny grids.

In the end, the more noise we make about events that are happening, the more likely it is we'll see attendance pick up until the next major LFS update. Stick a calendar on the landing screen, can't hurt.

EDIT:

I really like the idea above about "subscribing to events" and receiving emails to remind you. That's a good one.

Will add my few cents from the E-Challenge perspective.

Soooo, I was facing this exact problem in the E-Challenge too. While not so severe numbers (mainly due to extreme hype), the trend was clear, and thanks to my decision to host only 3 rounds (if it is a shitshow, at least it's soon over) we stayed in reasonable attendance numbers even at season finale.

To put things in perspective:

52 drivers did successfully register for the championship (50 were valid)
41 drivers did attend at least 1 round.
14 drivers did attend all 3 rounds.

R1 had 32 cars on the grid.
R2 had 26 cars on the grid (28 attendants)
R3 had 20 cars on the grid.

The trend was clear - interest was dropping significantly and if we had 5-6 races, the finale would have like 10-12 cars on the grid... (E-Challenge 2020 flashbacks)

I struggle to understand why it is happening - I sent a survey to all drivers who did attend at last one round of E-Challenge (full results will be published soon after E-Challenge is officially over, but will leave few thread-relevant things here anyway)

In one question i was asking, what was the reason for missing out any round (keep in mind these answers are from active drivers, not those who registered but never showed up - I'm fine with no interest from the beginning, but don't understand increasing lack of interest over the series)


* last 3 answers are open answers

The strong majority had real life stuff to take care of (which is understandably a higher priority), guess we cannot do much about it, but it does not answer why the attendance drop is chronological. Rest were technical issues, bans and whateverthe****didtheymean.

I was also wondering if we could pick a better time for the event, however those who voted did pick same or similar timing as what we already have, so no clear evidence we are doing it wrong timing-wise. (There was open answer available as well, but only 1 response was a non-weekend day, rest did stick with the weekend evenings)



TLDR; still don't know what is causing the drop in attendance, or how to effectively combat it.
All the methods I was hopeful with did not work and I'm out of ideas on how to motivate drivers to keep racing.

real life simulation

To be honest, if we knew the why we would have worked on it, sadly the experience i've had with LFS community (in relation to the mod) is that very little feedback is ever given, which makes finding a solution almost impossible.

I Wish it was different, but if it declines any further, it could be the end of this brilliant simulator, the only 2 (S3) servers filled every day are "Just a Ride and TC City-driving 1, you have some demo servers that are filled but are pointless for this discussion.

Sad part is that the community has been in decline for the past 13 years, as show in the graph attached below.

Quote from timdecnodder :

... as show in the graph attached below.

Yes, these graphs have not escaped my attention. The good bit is the right hand side on the licensed racers. It's a big increase over recent years, due to mods of course. And the new graphics and physics will be another good boost.

But I was really wondering if there was anything we could do, quite quickly, to boost participation, including this well organised and fun rallycross event you are running. Tyre physics and graphics update of course aren't an immediate solution.

Dear Scawen, thanks to this post I discovered that a very short layout rallycross race exists!
As far as I love driving, I know very little about the racing real world.

Anyway I knew about Events, I knew about Twitter (following already) and Twitch broadcast (following already too).
I always felt a lack of rallycross tracks on LFS, especially nowadays having so many more cars available.

So, I will look more into it, definitely want to try the layouts at least and if I can a race for sure.

This is the video, it seems really fun indeed.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1431367089

LFS is having a "second youth", more people is coming but still we are a bunch of guys.
That number will surely increase by a huge factor when we will have the graphic update, I'd bet on it.
Having cars with real lights, the sky changing daylight and even more importantly the night races will be the best advertisment for LFS.
Updated physics and updated tracks will help a lot too.

So, my suggestion is: keep doing these kind of races, have patience, it will pay out in the long run.

In the meanwhile I expect better and better mods.

It would be great if the Calendar of Events will be integrated in LFS.
I always loved the LFS integration between the game and the web pages, but the average user just looks at the game.

Another thing is to integrate the "Car Setups" page ( https://www.lfs.net/files/setups ) like you did for the Mods.
(Of course, setups must be available also for mods, not only original cars.)

That page can be improved a lot.
The download icon is ugly and hidden, I just discovered I can "add to my collection", have my team setups, the rating system.. this is so good in theory but not advertised nor integrated into LFS.
Do it with the same philosophy for Mods and Car Setups will be a huge factor to help newbies and also 20ish years user like me.
In game, just under the car setups list, add a button which opens the online setups for this car+track combination.
Yeah, I hear your thought and I agree: too much to do already now.
But it will be really handy and important for the future.

TL;DR: please do the Physics and Graphic update asap, it will bring more people into LFS. Also, try to integrate the Events Calendar into LFS game.

Maybe Helmet Mod must be fun? Each driver can post own face on the helmet skin or own helmet!
=> https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/97963-%5BHELMET-MOD%5D


I run only on Gumgarage, i don't know where seeing others championship's server.

Maybe a Schedulde can be post on the first page with a link for subscribe?

The official webpage for rallying and hillclimb in south of belgium :
http://asaf.be/ each race is mentionned.

Maybe if i won something like T-shirt or other goodies be good? Or skin, or hidden private mod?

i am an organizer.
i communicate our league and events on the leagues page here

the answer is perhaps to have a tool like this : https://worldsimseries.com/
having a page wich list the races with a countdown, a beautiful posters, all informations, way to register and results

when i find this webpage, i was stunning !! all races in one page, all in attractive design !
and i instantly think about Live For Speed ! why not have a tool like this ?

but better ..
the negative i found in this page is the fact all is automated .. you register without discuss or agree a rules sheet, you came on the server, race and leave without communicate... it 's like a race self service. and no control about ping etc ...

but the idea and the design is very attractive, the information is here about what and when !

@Scawen : you asked what the way you could explore to help us fill our grids, hope you will take a look and feedback what you think about.
ps : sign for free to really seeing hat it looks like and facilities

I don't do signups or anything that is spread across more than one event, so there's nothing that can be done for players like me to get us interested in this kind of event. Maybe there isn't a large enough player base rather than a problem with players not knowing what's on?.

Quote from Scawen :

...
When that Scirocco is released, people are going to drive around in it and I can assure you, they won't be just unbelievably happy about the experience for the next several months. Most likely they'll do a few laps then wonder what all the fuss was about. It's pretty crazy really if you think about it.

It will bring ESP and electrical differential (applying brake on the spinning wheel) in LFS => just add torsen diff and we are close of having most of the classic system used on road cars ! This will then allow doing even better mods regarding the handling
Of course having aswell an ecu like rallycars (those who practice(d) RBR will understand) were used to have would be interesting (not sure they are still having this technology nowadays)...

Quote from mbutcher :

There's a bunch of space on the LFS landing screen, maybe you can create a simple News/Calendar UI there?

+1 from me.

Now not many people find events to attend without actively looking for them. Putting these on welcome screen makes more casual racers aware of it. Also, Demo racers also get to know about these and probably get motivated to get license to attend these as most do not check forums.

I must admit for me its been stuff irl that has taken me from racing everyday to rarely racing. Hopefully its going to change soon though.