Quote from lfsrm :

Simracing is all about immersion, graphics and physics are both important, a very good sim should aim to nail both aspects.

I agree that lfs was and still (in some aspects) a very good sim, but let's try to not deny other people work, I believe that there's many passionate devs behind those sims (AC/C, iracing, rfactor...) that are striving to bring us quality products, they kept the sims community alive and we even grew in number in these past years!

I also agree that passion plays a no negligible role in a product quality and longevity, but without visibility you might as well give up earning the fruit of you labor, I understood that the hard way, I hate the concept of social media with passion, I prefer the old fashioned discussions platforms, but because I m a graphic designer and my job by nature require heavy exposition to all kind of medias, I m forced to use them to not give up my passion and livelihood.

This is how life goes, it's all about compromises.

Thanks for your reply. You made some good points, though you seem to be rebutting points that I didn't make.

Quote from lfsrm :

You people need to think a little bit about the game and the community as a whole and not only what your preferences dictate, the devs clearly stated that the game needs more visibility to attract players, but instead you want to bury the game even further just because it "feels good" to be unique.

Do you think that I like bloated program that runs in the background each time I want to play a game ? hell no, but if it what it takes to attract more players, I will gladly embrace the new platform.

and yes, we were all kids/crashers/beginners when we started to play the game, it's up to us the community to guide the newcomers to become better as a players, there is nothing wrong with that.

I thank you for your concern but I am still thinking very well. Compromising with Steam (Or submission to the law of the fittest which is not an idea I am very comfortable with) is not mandatory for developers to escape the worst misery that will force them eating roots until Putin's nuclear warheads finally come to all free us from this cruel world.

There are alternatives, possible marketing strategies, communication plans that cost nothing within the reach of the community...

Not giving in to Steam's siren song is first and foremost an ethical choice. This goes beyond the concerns of my small personal comfort which would require me to sacrifice LFS on the altar of marginality by refusing the resident programs of Steam on my computer. Please be serious.

The longevity of LFS (and its latencies in development, the two are linked) proves the validity of its marketing model. 20 years later, this model seems more contemporary than ever. It is a unique thing that must be defended and claimed. This is written in LFS DNA. Sometimes circumstances demand that one defend one's identity rather than submit.


That's my opinion. That doesn't make me someone who wants to snatch bread out of developers' mouths. And we wonder why the servers are empty?

Quote from NENE87 :

For visibility, you need a real "challenge" with a prize to be won! (to be clear, I hate the physics of other games and I don't care about the graphics) we are all "adults" now, the younger ones fun with hospital bed/sandwich/rocket balloon/... I'm looking for realism and found it on lfs. Every player is looking for what they want, how many people are looking for realism? Steam might disappoint a bunch of "drivers"

I am agree. I have a pretty clear idea of the type of challenge I personally dream of. May be this could fill the servers again and give LFS a lot of visibility. I think it's more constructive to think about what only LFS can do than to resign yourself to doing like any other game.

Quote from FIZ :

I agree 100% and wanted to add that Steam is not needed for a simulator racing enthusiast.
That "club" is well known, a person don't casually play a racing simulator game.
Every time you google, youtube, etc the words "racing simulators", Live For Speed is always at least present in the list.
Youtube is still the biggest advertiser for games: the reviewers are thousand, any new game is played by many, even live. Comparison videos have always many views.
In these comparison videos, LFS is really popular in racing simulators category: I've heard many people saying "yeah graphics sucks, there are so few cars and tracks etc, but that 'feeling' is unique and you must try it".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZEY2JvWJ4I

You are 100% right. LFS is unique and should be defended for it. This would require a little more ambition than just motivating LFS racers to occupy servers. Things could be done in this direction but our developers are probably too busy...

Sadly, it is very simple.

LFS is cruising simulator and not a racing simulator.

We talk about league like BF1 losing interest..wonder why? People cant drive the cars because phantom bugs kill their suspension.

But having Semaforo is more important than fixing (or atleast patching) the kerb bugs.

People don't go into lfs to race. Racing series that are existing are behemoths of old age. There are no racers...only cruisers, and no amount of broadcast or organization will change that.

You can berate me all you want, but once you look i to the mirror you will know I'm right.

Quote from Gunn :

.

While Assetto Corsa sure does have the bling and modelling detail to attract a large audience, its physics still leave a lot to be desired,

Totally agree with you on that one. I've raced a fair bit on Assetto Corsa but it has never grabbed my full attention like LFS had.

I think LFS has many strengths, that the other sims will never have the same

Quote from NumberTwo :

Sadly, it is very simple.

LFS is cruising simulator and not a racing simulator.

We talk about league like BF1 losing interest..wonder why? People cant drive the cars because phantom bugs kill their suspension.

But having Semaforo is more important than fixing (or atleast patching) the kerb bugs.

People don't go into lfs to race. Racing series that are existing are behemoths of old age. There are no racers...only cruisers, and no amount of broadcast or organization will change that.

You can berate me all you want, but once you look i to the mirror you will know I'm right.

See that's an opinion based on your experience. People do race as michal 1279 shown , 50 active racers started in the first event race, then it decreased as it progressed onto the subsequent races.

Id guess some don't like to continue if they believe they're not going to do or become the best.

Maybe it could work better if active teams have it so many members took part in event leagues from start to end and events had a racer standing and team standing(points).

The same happened years ago when id ran event races, at the start they would be packed but then after a few of races the numbers would dwindle.

Many race on ours and other demo servers, the struggle or aim is to get many to become licensed drivers, which is why we had held events for them to win licenses which kept the numbers up on demo events.

The problem with licensed events is they're already licensed, so its finding some incentive to keep them interested.

Instead of always looking at what is wrong (in graphics, physics, weather, number of tracks, age of cars, color of tires or helmets...) and extending development indefinitely. .. has anyone ever wondered if the LFS-style inline racing model isn't a bit outdated? If the inter-self of the community was not a problem? If the online chat does not harm the spirit of racing? If the LFS does not need new blood? New ideas? Concrete actions to say why this game is absolutely brilliant?
Why always wait for what the devs can (maybe?) do tomorrow without seeing what we (the players) can do for the game today?

Quote from bishtop :

Totally agree with you on that one. I've raced a fair bit on Assetto Corsa but it has never grabbed my full attention like LFS had.

I think LFS has many strengths, that the other sims will never have the same



See that's an opinion based on your experience. People do race as michal 1279 shown , 50 active racers started in the first event race, then it decreased as it progressed onto the subsequent races.

Id guess some don't like to continue if they believe they're not going to do or become the best.

Maybe it could work better if active teams have it so many members took part in event leagues from start to end and events had a racer standing and team standing(points).

The same happened years ago when id ran event races, at the start they would be packed but then after a few of races the numbers would dwindle.

Many race on ours and other demo servers, the struggle or aim is to get many to become licensed drivers, which is why we had held events for them to win licenses which kept the numbers up on demo events.

The problem with licensed events is they're already licensed, so its finding some incentive to keep them interested.

1st race of league is full because people are curious.

Nothing can help races after that, except increase of player base. We get what, 500 drivers per day in LFS? If we would get 5000, then the leagues would be full.

But we wont get to 5000, not with buggy kerbs that developers have been ignoring for years. Dont tell me, i know, its the physics problem. But is it impossible to patch the track up so it doesnt kill cars? I've done it with track layout editor..many others did it you, why can't devs do it?

Lets get one thing straight, i dont mind devs prioritizing cruise community over racing community. It is their product afterall. But if they ask, like scawen asked here.. I'm willing to answer. Live for speed is not a racing simulator. So thats why races aren't attended.

For example, longest active league in LFS is fox Friday, am i right? Fox Friday became because fox junkies was dying...so onus went from having good racing every day to having a good race once a week.

The amount of work FM and friends put into keeping fox friday active as it is, is frankly ridiculous. Fras is on the server almost every day and he doesn't even race. We have coached through watching, advices and setups over 100 new drivers, with every new driver we have a goal of making them a good opponnent to have in a race. But the thing is, Fox Friday isn't really competitive..you can come and race one week, and you can miss next month, it doesn't matter if you're not top 3-4 drivers wanting to win championship that year.if you got time on Friday, you join server and drive. Its not comparable to leagues that are organized differently.

It all stems to lack of drivers. And tbh, its a problem that is 13 years old now

Doom and gloom won't help anything.

Also talking about Steam is way too irrelevant.

This thread was about a couple of quick changes we could do, to help with participation while we finish the new tyre physics and graphics system.

It's way too off topic now (and weirdly doomist - totally unhelpful NumberTwo). So I'll close the thread for now and reply later with the mockup for the calendar on entry screen.

I've moved these posts from the "How to improve attendance" thread.

Most of these posts are valid and reasonable but are not on topic for the discussion (which was about quick changes to help with attendance on the existing version). We are using the original thread as a development thread and it's making progress.

So to keep that clean and easier to read I have moved these posts out.