And if there are 3 lead lap cars wanting by? Its a classic prisoner's dilemma. If I'm the second (the car fighting for position) car and I'm polite enough to let the faster cars through, is the first car (the car trying not to be overtaken) going to do the same. If he doesn't I've lost a lot of ground. If he does than I can use the faster cars to pull me through. He's likely not going to so though. Prisoner's dilemma says that both cars will try to use the faster group to thier advantage so niether is going to let teh fast group through, possible penalty be damned. At least if a penalty is assessed its assessed to both cars, so niether gets the advantage.
And if there are 3 lead lap cars wanting by? Its a classic prisoner's dilemma. If I'm the second (the car fighting for position) car and I'm polite enough to let the faster cars through, is the first car (the car trying not to be overtaken) going to do the same. If he doesn't I've lost a lot of ground. If he does than I can use the faster cars to pull me through. He's likely not going to so though. Prisoner's dilemma says that both cars will try to use the faster group to thier advantage so niether is going to let teh fast group through, possible penalty be damned. At least if a penalty is assessed its assessed to both cars, so niether gets the advantage.
True, but the point to remember is that just because a blue flag appears does not mean immediate action should be expected. Even in real racing they are given three flags (3 sections of the track) to find a safe place to allow the pass to occur. In LFS I have seen people getting upset at the slower driver when they are still 50m away from him.
Yeah, it seems a lot of people believe that a blue flag means "pull over and let the leader pass immediately, regardless of where you are on the track" when it really means "you are required to let the leader pass when it's safe, but not before you need to - use your common sense". I'd much prefer a driver maintain their race pace and perhaps back off a bit to let me by down a straight or into/after a corner than slow right down. In some races I've had to actively avoid hitting someone because they yielded too much and decided to slow right down on the racing line to let me by. Intention: good - execution: awful. In rare cases I've hit someone's rear because they jammed on the brakes 100m early, asked what the hell they were doing, only to get the response "wtf I had blue flag". There's such a thing as overkill. I'd prefer if backmarkers lifted a little bit after a bend or along a straight so we can both maintain speed and not adjust our line too much 
Of course if there's a battle going on, it doesn't pay to get stuck between two or three leaders and you may have to back off a bit more than you would for one car, but the principle is the same: you are slower and you must yield, but you don't necessarily have to compromise your pace or especially your safety to do it. Common sense is very valuable in racing and is often underrated.
I think it pays to watch F1 and see how the pros do it.
Of course if there's a battle going on, it doesn't pay to get stuck between two or three leaders and you may have to back off a bit more than you would for one car, but the principle is the same: you are slower and you must yield, but you don't necessarily have to compromise your pace or especially your safety to do it. Common sense is very valuable in racing and is often underrated.
I think it pays to watch F1 and see how the pros do it.
Just avoid watching the race where Raikkonen rear-ended a backmarker because he backed off too much in the wrong spot!
This is not correct !
Blue flag means, let the faster driver pass, when it`s safe.
If you joined a ongoing race, and get the blue flag, then get away instantly. It`s a disgrace not to respect the ongoing race, and especially the race leaders.
If I get hit by wreckers in the first corner, and survive reasonably, but long way after the pack. The only thing I want, is to set a fast time, to prove i belong in the pack, and not in the back.
If unlucky in clan races, I do just the same. Drive fast, to set my marker !
I think it`s quite common, to try to go fast, if you are in a position, where you have nothing else to do. I allways try my best to finish races, but compete with myself, if there is none to figth with. I think it is showing my respect to the race
Well, naturally, don't watch everyone
Although, the particular combination of factors that led to that smash is a good lesson on how not to pass a backmarker as well as how not to be one
Very true!
there should be some other messages in this case, like 'faster car behind' or so. btw, there could be some sound signal for blue flag, since many drivers ignore the text. its really anoying when u drive 2-3-4 laps behind a 4-5 sec slower racer, just cuz he ignore the flag, and u dont want to risk. and of course, he brakes/turns incalculable..
I'd like to see a small, concise list, something like "things to be aware of when racing online" included in the in-game options. It could mention things such as blue flags, how much you can move when defending a line, simple things like that. If LFS ever has a downloadable PDF manual it could be even more comprehensive than that.
With so much confusion and differing viewpoints on simple racing rules (and noone ever reading stickies), it wouldn't do any harm to have LFS include a short guide on FIA regulations.
With so much confusion and differing viewpoints on simple racing rules (and noone ever reading stickies), it wouldn't do any harm to have LFS include a short guide on FIA regulations.
did i say anything about crashing?
@Blueskunk: its a big difference in driving style if it is a 1 - 3 hours race or a sprint race, ofcrouse!!!
My point was that the No. 1 objective is to win the race and not to set the fastest lap. Yeah sure, if you can set the fastest lap and win the race then all the better.
I must say last night I did some 20 lap races round SO Long in the XFR. Great combo. It was pretty busy and the lap times the field were doing covered a wide range. Even so I only had one problem with a back marker, all the rest got out of the way pretty quickly and in a sensible manner. I must have passed at least 15 - 20 back markers in total.
I wonder why the standard was so good on this server. Maybe the longer races encourage people to drive more sensibly because there is more time to attempt a pass and more time to crash if you push too hard.
I wish there were more servers that did something other than the poxy 5 lap races.
schneefee:
i don't know what you mean. can you explain?
i don't know what you mean. can you explain?
i was refering to this post from you.
I cannot agree, bcos: something that works in a 2 hours Race, must not work in a sprint race. Sprintracing is much more aggresive, and thats why it requires sometimes socalled "brainless now or never maneuvers". It depends in the skill of the drivers then if those maneuvers work out well. Unfortunatly most racers are doing such actions above their own skill level which leads to such topics.
(wennst es immer noch nicht verstehst dann liegts wohl an meinem englisch -> PM:tilt
On the topic of blue flags, what do you guys think on the difference between an America blue flags system and those in Europe (namely F1, someone has pointed out what'll happened if a driver ignore blue flags).
I've came across a few people who claim that blue flags is only to indicate that a guy a lap ahead is coming up to lap you, but they seems to take the view that it's up to the guy behind to pass safely, and they'll stay on the racing line no matter what, even if you have managed to be completely alongside them down the straight or heading into the corners~! they'll just push you onto the grass as if you're not there.
I do agree that they don't have to let me pass, but when I'm already alongside them going down the straight (let alone in the corners), surely there should be no need to push me onto the grass~?
I've came across a few people who claim that blue flags is only to indicate that a guy a lap ahead is coming up to lap you, but they seems to take the view that it's up to the guy behind to pass safely, and they'll stay on the racing line no matter what, even if you have managed to be completely alongside them down the straight or heading into the corners~! they'll just push you onto the grass as if you're not there.
I do agree that they don't have to let me pass, but when I'm already alongside them going down the straight (let alone in the corners), surely there should be no need to push me onto the grass~?
People should always give "racing room" whether a blue flag is waved or not. But obviously the SIM world is different from the real world in that no-one has to pay for car damage / medical bills. This results in some SIM racers never giving any racing room.
Happened last night on Redline. One of teh drivers started doing the message spamming:
"BLUE FLAG - Get off the racing line!"
"BLUE FLAG - Get off the racing line!"
"BLUE FLAG - Get off the racing line!"
"BLUE FLAG - Get off the racing line!"
"Blue FLAG - Get out of the way!!!!"
"Blue FLAG - Get out of the way!!!!"
"Blue FLAG - Get out of the way!!!!"
"Blue FLAG - Get out of the way!!!!"
"Blue FLAG - Get out of the way!!!!"
...or something along those lines. Very distracting. Very rude.
Drivers moving off line to let a faster car pass is a courtesy thing, not a hard and fast rule. Most F1 drivers take a wide line when MS, Kimi, or FA come through because it is the 'gentleman' thing to do.
I've read a couple driving books and they all pretty much agree on the concept of passing slower cars. The slow cars constitute a modification in the track and therefore a modification in the proper racing line. The overtaking car should alter their line to account for the 'obstacle' that has altered the track.
Edit: Another problem. I'm going down the long straight on Blackwood drafting a slower car. He pulls right and so I slide left up next to him. Just as we reach the braking point, he comes back across the track right into me which tosses me into the sand. Very annoying. Ther reason I bring this up is because the Blue Flag issue is a symptom of a larger issue: A lack of common courtesy on the public servers.
"BLUE FLAG - Get off the racing line!"
"BLUE FLAG - Get off the racing line!"
"BLUE FLAG - Get off the racing line!"
"BLUE FLAG - Get off the racing line!"
"Blue FLAG - Get out of the way!!!!"
"Blue FLAG - Get out of the way!!!!"
"Blue FLAG - Get out of the way!!!!"
"Blue FLAG - Get out of the way!!!!"
"Blue FLAG - Get out of the way!!!!"
...or something along those lines. Very distracting. Very rude.
Drivers moving off line to let a faster car pass is a courtesy thing, not a hard and fast rule. Most F1 drivers take a wide line when MS, Kimi, or FA come through because it is the 'gentleman' thing to do.
I've read a couple driving books and they all pretty much agree on the concept of passing slower cars. The slow cars constitute a modification in the track and therefore a modification in the proper racing line. The overtaking car should alter their line to account for the 'obstacle' that has altered the track.
Edit: Another problem. I'm going down the long straight on Blackwood drafting a slower car. He pulls right and so I slide left up next to him. Just as we reach the braking point, he comes back across the track right into me which tosses me into the sand. Very annoying. Ther reason I bring this up is because the Blue Flag issue is a symptom of a larger issue: A lack of common courtesy on the public servers.
If someone spammed at me:
"BLUE FLAG - Get off the racing line!"
"BLUE FLAG - Get off the racing line!"
"BLUE FLAG - Get off the racing line!"
"BLUE FLAG - Get off the racing line!"
"Blue FLAG - Get out of the way!!!!"
"Blue FLAG - Get out of the way!!!!"
"Blue FLAG - Get out of the way!!!!"
"Blue FLAG - Get out of the way!!!!"
"Blue FLAG - Get out of the way!!!!"
I would tell them to "STFU, if you think you need to do that you clearly haven't raced me before."
I would then add the driver to my 'buddy' list so I could check he isn't on any of the servers I join in future. Muppett!
I guess if everyone did the same then these idiots would eventually have no one to race against lol
@gentlefoot: added you to my buddylist to make sure i am not going to race on the same server with you.
That's very kind of you (if a bit uncalled for) - it saves me adding you to my buddy list lol
It wasn't at me, but at another driver. Still very annoying. I politely asked him not do do that anymore.
I wish I could be more diplomatic like you mate.
i went on a demo server to race a friend, it was BL2, XFG's, on lap ONE this driver who's 1 sec quicker spams "blue flag - get out of the way n00bs" and rams me off the track, he does this twice (because he crashed) and then he does the same to my friend (saw him just smash into him in my mirrors)
his excuse?
didnt see you, you should of moved
thank god i have S2!
his excuse?
didnt see you, you should of moved
thank god i have S2!
So it was lap 1. So he spammed blue flag even though there wasn't one? That really does take the biscuit.
I must admit I've had some pretty bad experiences on demo servers too.
i know, i remember when i used to frequent the demo servers, i came out of the pits, followed someone, then i overtook him (he was like 1:39's on Q), and as i pass he spams blue flag, i pull off into the distance and as i get to castrol he doesnt brake, smashed me off the track and said "you n00b it was a blue flag" (when in fact i was so far ahead of him it wasnt!)
racing versus hotlapping and the blue flag
(85 posts, started )
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