Quote from bishtop :

And is there really any need for the sarcastic text/image regarding do you need a cuddle

Edit, good timing

Even just from the thumbnails of the content of that YT channel, it's clear it follows a far right, racist mindset, masquerading behind left wing topics. The person's Wikipedia page explains in detail.

And Racer X is a lost cause, always has been. Go back in his post to like page 14, 2016, and you'll find conspiracy posts about Clinton's pedo assassin cabal...

Quote from ACCAkut :

I reported it. But apparently, as it's still there in all its glory after four hours, it's inline with the attitude of the moderators.

You are starting to piss me off man.

Please read my previous two posts.

https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1996982#post1996982
https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1996983#post1996983

I wrote that before your posts appeared, sorry for that. I'm at work too and had been typing that on mobile. But I can't quite keep quiet on this topic.

All right, there is too much tension here in some participants.

I can't watch all the youtube links and research everything, and start making judgements about what kind of people are saying what, even in reported posts.

So can people calm down and talk with great calm and reason?

Or I will have to close the thread. That might not be a bad idea. Some people think that 'political discussion' should not be allowed here at all. I don't agree with that, but when people start arguing and then it's apparently *my* fault for not sorting it all out, while I am just some methodical programmer trying to do some work, then my attitude starts to change.

I'm so close to closing the thread, but I would like LFS to be a place where people can have reasonable discussions, even when those conversations are not firmly within everyone's comfort zone.

Certain posts here are not 'reasonable' at all and look like provocation.

Quote from ACCAkut :

Edit, good timing

Even just from the thumbnails of the content of that YT channel, it's clear it follows a far right, racist mindset, masquerading behind left wing topics. The person's Wikipedia page explains in detail.

And Racer X is a lost cause, always has been. Go back in his post to like page 14, 2016, and you'll find conspiracy posts about Clinton's pedo assassin cabal...

Dude,
currently in Russia, there's a question, when will the government turn from repressing for actions -- street protests, reposts, or public speech -- to repressions or rights limitations by category, e.g. foreign company workers, IT workers, those who studied abroad or who travelled too much. In other words, when will it turn to a regime like Italian Mussolini's fascism.

Sad to say, but what you argue for, goes in the same direction: shutting down people by a label, and moreover, an arbitrary label.

I see that the facts these guys point did take place. And I guess you're afraid they'll be interpreted in far-right manner -- that's a legitimate concern, but others don't interpret them like that. I clearly understand that you should in your mind divide the interpretation by 10.

If you gave a little effort to put them in context, e.g. show statistics how often the crimes they point at do actually happen, or other witnesses, how many people abused the asylium -- that would have benefited everyone.

Refusing to talk, and shutting the discussion down will only prevent others from de-constructing the far-right agenda.

And again, in Russia, there's a big chance that anyone labelled "liberal" will have their rights limited or persecuted (e.g. with made-up fines for civic code articles). Mirroring this behavior is amoral.

Quote from detail :

Refusing to talk, and shutting the discussion down will only prevent others from de-constructing the far-right agenda.

I agree. I would add that the posts here remain cordial despite the differences in point of view and the links unrelated to the subject.

For those who missed something, a link to a terrifying and already far too documented article on war crimes committed in Ukraine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_the_2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine

Quote from Scawen :

All right, there is too much tension here in some participants.

I can't watch all the youtube links and research everything, and start making judgements about what kind of people are saying what, even in reported posts.

So can people calm down and talk with great calm and reason?

Or I will have to close the thread. That might not be a bad idea. Some people think that 'political discussion' should not be allowed here at all. I don't agree with that, but when people start arguing and then it's apparently *my* fault for not sorting it all out, while I am just some methodical programmer trying to do some work, then my attitude starts to change.

I'm so close to closing the thread, but I would like LFS to be a place where people can have reasonable discussions, even when those conversations are not firmly within everyone's comfort zone.

Certain posts here are not 'reasonable' at all and look like provocation.

You've done a great job on this topic, and understandably when a post is reported, it will take time for them to be checked as you cannot be here 24/7.

Even though some on here do not hold the same opinion as myself, i have actually enjoyed discussing and hearing it from other peoples perspective.


@Scawen Sorry for pulling you away from what you had been doing.

Quote from Avraham Vandezwin :

I agree. I would add that the posts here remain cordial despite the differences in point of view and the links unrelated to the subject.

Agree with you, if we're unable to discuss the situation respectfully, then we're just part of a problem

Regarding your link, its very sad to read and see what has happened in Bucha.

Some distressing scenes in the following video.

https://youtu.be/dwqZik96yRo?t=33

Quote from ACCAkut :

so linking alt-right racists is allowed on your forum these days, Scawen? Next to giving Russian propaganda a place to shine?

I mean he's been repeatedly banned for spreading tons of conspiracy garbage. The fact he gets unbanned and continues to post similar drivel implies that it's ok at some level.

Thanks, great to know you are such a fine judge of morality.

Somehow you were unbanned after this: www.lfs.net/vatmoss/dawesdust_12.jpg

And a lot more of your fine work around the internet...

Your opinion means very little around here.

But whose opinion matters most?

This is just general question which came in my mind.

Quote from UnknownMaster21 :

But whose opinion matters most?

This is just general question which came in my mind.

essentially all are equal, unless the opinion is meant as an insult to someone then it does not matter at all.

Quote from gu3st :

I mean he's been repeatedly banned for spreading tons of conspiracy garbage. The fact he gets unbanned and continues to post similar drivel implies that it's ok at some level.

It doesn't imply that its ok, its probably in hope that a lesson is learned.

Anyway, aren't we all just going totally off-topic. This is all nothing compared to what the topic is about and what we're supposed to be discussing like adults.

Thank's Scrawen for actually reading my post's and not banning my opinion that ALL wars are wrong.

For the rest of you, my opinion is that politic's is a circle and extreme right and extreme left actually exist in the same place.

I try to exist 180 degrees away from both opinions, my post's provide information from both left and right, frequently they both have the same opinion, our wars good, their wars bad......

I am disgusted with Russia's behaviour in the Ukraine, I am also disgusted with the US wars of domination. I would like to think that others could see the similarity but I'm not holding my breath with that one.

Yes, if Russia has carried out war crimes in the Ukraine then the International Criminal Court would be the place to carry out trials and convictions, if guilt is proven, and punish those responsible.

It now starts to get a bit difficult, sorry for awkward facts here.....

What does the US believe regarding the International Criminal Court's jurisdition ?????

"As far as America is concerned, the ICC has no jurisdiction, no legitimacy, and no authority."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ ... ernational_Criminal_Court

"On September 2, 2020, the United States government imposed sanctions on the International Criminal Court (ICC) prosecutor, Fatou Bensouda, and another senior prosecution official, Phakiso Mochochoko. In addition, US Secretary of State Michael Pompeo announced that the United States had restricted the issuance of visas for certain unnamed individuals “involved in the ICC’s efforts to investigate US personnel.”
https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/12/14/us-sanctions-international-criminal-court

"The ICC’s claims of jurisdiction have been a source of frustration for multiple U.S. presidents. When in office, George W. Bush and Barack Obama supported the court’s work in some areas, when it aligned with U.S. interests, and pushed back in others. This selective engagement meant they could support the court’s investigations in countries like Sudan and Libya while rejecting the court’s jurisdiction over countries that are not ICC members — countries like the United States, or U.S. allies like Israel.

But the ICC prosecutor has consistently affirmed the court’s jurisdiction over U.S. personnel in Afghanistan and over Israeli personnel in the occupied Palestinian territories, namely the Gaza Strip and the West Bank (including East Jerusalem).

Opened in 2006 during Bush’s second term, the Afghanistan probe concerns alleged war crimes and crimes against humanity, including by U.S. military and intelligence personnel. The preliminary ICC findings indicate the prosecutor is particularly interested in allegations of torture in CIA detention sites."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/04/05/biden-reversed-trumps-sanctions-international-criminal-court-officials-what-happens-now/

I suggest you try to make a sentence from the following,

"Black, Calling, The, Pot, Kettle"

Quote from Racer X NZ :

Thank's Scrawen for actually reading my post's and not banning my opinion that ALL wars are wrong.

For the rest of you, my opinion is that politic's is a circle and extreme right and extreme left actually exist in the same place.

I try to exist 180 degrees away from both opinions, my post's provide information from both left and right, frequently they both have the same opinion, our wars good, their wars bad......

I am disgusted with Russia's behaviour in the Ukraine, I am also disgusted with the US wars of domination. I would like to think that others could see the similarity but I'm not holding my breath with that one.

Yes, if Russia has carried out war crimes in the Ukraine then the International Criminal Court would be the place to carry out trials and convictions, if guilt is proven, and punish those responsible.

It now starts to get a bit difficult, sorry for awkward facts here.....

What does the US believe regarding the International Criminal Court's jurisdition ?????

"As far as America is concerned, the ICC has no jurisdiction, no legitimacy, and no authority."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ ... ernational_Criminal_Court

"On September 2, 2020, the United States government imposed sanctions on the International Criminal Court (ICC) prosecutor, Fatou Bensouda, and another senior prosecution official, Phakiso Mochochoko. In addition, US Secretary of State Michael Pompeo announced that the United States had restricted the issuance of visas for certain unnamed individuals “involved in the ICC’s efforts to investigate US personnel.”
https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/12/14/us-sanctions-international-criminal-court

"The ICC’s claims of jurisdiction have been a source of frustration for multiple U.S. presidents. When in office, George W. Bush and Barack Obama supported the court’s work in some areas, when it aligned with U.S. interests, and pushed back in others. This selective engagement meant they could support the court’s investigations in countries like Sudan and Libya while rejecting the court’s jurisdiction over countries that are not ICC members — countries like the United States, or U.S. allies like Israel.

But the ICC prosecutor has consistently affirmed the court’s jurisdiction over U.S. personnel in Afghanistan and over Israeli personnel in the occupied Palestinian territories, namely the Gaza Strip and the West Bank (including East Jerusalem).

Opened in 2006 during Bush’s second term, the Afghanistan probe concerns alleged war crimes and crimes against humanity, including by U.S. military and intelligence personnel. The preliminary ICC findings indicate the prosecutor is particularly interested in allegations of torture in CIA detention sites."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/04/05/biden-reversed-trumps-sanctions-international-criminal-court-officials-what-happens-now/

I suggest you try to make a sentence from the following,

"Black, Calling, The, Pot, Kettle"

Interesting read , but holds no relevance regarding the calls for Putin to charged for War Crimes. Putin is not an American or in america.

If the West supported the ICC, then I fully agree with you.

However the West has chosen to reject any ICC actions regarding their actions with illegal wars and has chosen to declare themselves above any ICC sanctions or investigations, insert bleeting here about how great the USA/UK are, this all seems to me to be a bit of an Animal Farm choice.

https://www.gale.com/open-access/animal-farm
(George Orwell, Not a Right Wing Conspiracy Theorist...)

Quote from bishtop :

Interesting read , but holds no relevance regarding the calls for Putin to charged for War Crimes. Putin is not an American or in america.

I've two points to make on this.

1) I believe that it would seem a lot more reasonable to prosecute Putin for war crimes, if the likes of Blair and Bush had been in court for their illegal invasion on Iraq. (I know that's only one of many bad things done by 'The West' but it's a recent, blatant, unprovoked invasion that was started by a massive bombing campaign on a city).

2) I have extreme doubt that Putin would voluntarily extradite himself to visit a war crime court in a foreign country, so I'm unsure what can be achieved by this.

The result in my mind is that Putin should be charged for such crimes, but unfortunately he's at the back of the queue.


EDIT: In fact when Blair and Bush defied the United Nations and went in to attack Iraq without any evidence of their supposed justification, it seemed to me that they destroyed the whole concept of international law. From that point on, every time a Western 'leader' says "this action is against international law" my mind goes straight back to the Iraq invasion. It's just risible. This to me is very sad indeed. And in fact Putin and his mate keep using the Iraq invasion as an example.

Quote from Scawen :

I've two points to make on this.

1) I believe that it would seem a lot more reasonable to prosecute Putin for war crimes, if the likes of Blair and Bush had been in court for their illegal invasion on Iraq. (I know that's only one of many bad things done by 'The West' but it's a recent, blatant, unprovoked invasion that was started by a massive bombing campaign on a city).

2) I have extreme doubt that Putin would voluntarily extradite himself to visit a war crime court in a foreign country, so I'm unsure what can be achieved by this.

The result in my mind is that Putin should be charged for such crimes, but unfortunately he's at the back of the queue.


EDIT: In fact when Blair and Bush defied the United Nations and went in to attack Iraq without any evidence of their supposed justification, it seemed to me that they destroyed the whole concept of international law. From that point on, every time a Western 'leader' says "this action is against international law" my mind goes straight back to the Iraq invasion. It's just risible. This to me is very sad indeed. And in fact Putin and his mate keep using the Iraq invasion as an example.

I agree, he definitley should be charged for his crimes, i think for it to happen he would somehow have to be removed from power prior to it happening.

Il be honest and say i don't have much understanding on how the ICC operates, if the following is not how it is run then it should be, members from all nations who have no ties to government members, and it should not matter if a country/nation does not recognise it, anyone committing war crimes would obviously not recognise an International Court due to the crimes they've committed.

The following is a link for a documentary that was made back in 2018, it's about reporters in conflict zones and what they endure to get a story. Its unrelated to this conflict but it does make a good watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdQCsugwzDY

Quote from Racer X NZ :

If the West supported the ICC, then I fully agree with you.

However the West has chosen to reject any ICC actions regarding their actions with illegal wars and has chosen to declare themselves above any ICC sanctions or investigations

It should not matter if a country fails to recognise the ICC, they should still be held accountable, it shouldn't be a choice, like for us as civillians cannot choose to recognise a courts jurisdiction.

American soldiers had been charged for murders in afghanistan though, even though Trump went on to pardon two of them

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ ... 0to%20life%20in%20prison.

Quote from bishtop :

It was annexed in 1939 from poland !

not really.


https://rumble.com/vzawjr-ukraine-on-fire-bad-subs.html

Quote from bishtop :

Ukraine is Ukraine

Awesome wisdoms.

Quote from bishtop :

not Russia.

If you are that interested in culture, history, "family" , roots.. Start here;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus%27

But for some reason I think you re not. I get the impression you are rooting for a football club. This is not a football club.

Quote from cargame.nl :

...

Awesome wisdoms.

...

If you are that interested in culture, history, "family" , roots.. Start here;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus%27

But for some reason I think you re not. I get the impression you are rooting for a football club. This is not a football club.

Cargame, please can you try to talk in a less adversarial and combative way?

You appear to be trying to antagonise Bishtop, then you have nothing to say but post a link to a massive wikipedia page. You could, for example, make a couple of points about what point you are trying to make, instead of being so lazy. Explain WHY someone should take an hour out of their day to read the history of Kievan Rus'.

Then your final sentence is really cryptic.

If you are so knowledgeable, why not take a few minutes and try to impart a little of that knowledge, instead of antagonising?

How can we actually help the Ukraine ?
Let's cancel their foreign debt.

"In Ukraine the IMF had long planned to implement a series of economic reforms to make the country more attractive to investors...."

https://youtu.be/zbo5ApHmjiM
(Not a Right Wing Conspiracy Theorist...)

Quote from Racer X NZ :

(Not a Right Wing Conspiracy Theorist...)

The main thing here is not to refer to the Right Wing people. Ofc, how it can be? Are we going to take into account different opinions? Thats is nonsense. Believe and listen only leftist.

Quote from cargame.nl :

not really.


But for some reason I think you re not. I get the impression you are rooting for a football club. This is not a football club.

Yes really. Read and see. I am more than happy to listening to other people's opinions but you have not given any context to your opinion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ ... Soviet_Socialist_Republic

In 1939, Western Ukraine was annexed from Poland by the USSR. Ukraine was the most populous and industrialised republic after the Russian Soviet Republic. With the dissolution of the Soviet Union Ukraine regained its independence in 1991

https://www.britannica.com/place/Ukraine

And please, rooting for a football club, i'm no child, and football is something i've never had an interest in.

Considering Ukraine only became a part of the USSR in 1922.

Most of what is now Ukraine was formally governed by Polish-Lithuanian nobility prior to the 18th century,

Quote from Aleksandr_124rus :

The main thing here is not to refer to the Right Wing people. Ofc, how it can be? Are we going to take into account different opinions? Thats is nonsense. Believe and listen only leftist.

I'll assume your making a joke.

In my opinion we should listen to any opinion that helps to bring this war to an end as soon as possible. And again, lets all look at all options that can achieve this outcome as soon as possible.
But, as per my post, I'd like to believe that financial outcomes are not the sole focus of certain interest groups in continuing this war, as has happened with other wars.

IDK, some are determined that I'm ultra right, other think I'm ultra left.... Clearly a middle path confuses people.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

I'll assume your making a joke.

In my opinion we should listen to any opinion that helps to bring this war to an end as soon as possible. And again, lets all look at all options that can achieve this outcome as soon as possible.
But, as per my post, I'd like to believe that financial outcomes are not the sole focus of certain interest groups in continuing this war, as has happened with other wars.

Explain more on the financial side of it. Give some context. In the context of the video links you posted in your other post, they're not about ending the war.

Russell Brand himself admits he's no politician and his views are not based on facts found. He was a television personality who is just outspoken with his opinions

Considering Ukraine was the most productive region for Russia, its most likely that it was financial based at first for them.

"The IMF and Ukraine signed a $5-billion loan program in 2020, extending it to June 2022 on the condition that the country improve the corporate governance of state-run banks and companies and show its anti-graft policy is being implemented. The government also committed to appoint the head of a Special Anti-Corruption Bureau, a move whose repeated postponement has irked international donors.

Aside from IMF disbursements, Ukraine’s government relies on EU1.2 billion in aid from the European Union, a $1-billion loan guarantee from the U.S. and assistance from other Western partners including Canada."
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-23/imf-starts-ukraine-mission-for-700m-loan-after-russia-escalates#:~:text=The%20IMF%20and%20Ukraine%20signed,graft%20policy%20is%20being%20implemented.

Try google, that may help with your research.

"Russell Brand himself admits he's no politician and his views are not based on facts found. He was a television personality who is just outspoken with his opinions"

You might also discover that the points he raises are based on facts, that's why he employs people to confirm that what he say's is actually factual and can be supported. That's why he's yet to be banned....

Just because you have 5.4 Million subscribers does not mean that YouTube will not ban you from posting "Wrong think" unless it is VERY factual, if you think he's wrong, feel free to correct him.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

"The IMF and Ukraine signed a $5-billion loan program in 2020, extending it to June 2022 on the condition that the country improve the corporate governance of state-run banks and companies and show its anti-graft policy is being implemented. The government also committed to appoint the head of a Special Anti-Corruption Bureau, a move whose repeated postponement has irked international donors.

Aside from IMF disbursements, Ukraine’s government relies on EU1.2 billion in aid from the European Union, a $1-billion loan guarantee from the U.S. and assistance from other Western partners including Canada."
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-23/imf-starts-ukraine-mission-for-700m-loan-after-russia-escalates#:~:text=The%20IMF%20and%20Ukraine%20signed,graft%20policy%20is%20being%20implemented.

Try google, that may help with your research.

"Russell Brand himself admits he's no politician and his views are not based on facts found. He was a television personality who is just outspoken with his opinions"

You might also discover that the points he raises are based on facts, that's why he employs people to confirm that what he say's is actually factual and can be supported. That's why he's yet to be banned....

So with the IMF it benefits Ukraine financially(at a high cost to the country and its people) so its not based on financial gain, nor to those giving the loans, world debt takes a long to pay back.

The following is only based on one statement from Russell Brand being fact checked, so more needs to be checked.

https://www.politifact.com/personalities/russell-brand/

And many have started to believe that his channel is becoming alt-right.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/d ... xplained/?sh=5e463dbf1e8f

Russell Brand is a great speaker thats why people listen to him. And saying that him not being banned is due to him only telling facts on youtube, how come many thousands of other channels that we know are based on lies still not banned.

The one point i do agree with Russell Brand on, is politicians are not the right people to speak on behalf of us and do not represent our feelings.