https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg_29pY-9cg&ab_channel=MilitaryHistorynotVisualized
'Penal Battalions' on both sides....

https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2022-03-15-expert-comment-putin-s-war-how-did-we-get-here-ukraine-2014

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2017/10/18/how-ukraine-views-russia-and-the-west/
Worth a read.

https://www.e-ir.info/2018/06/16/the-causes-and-consequences-of-russias-actions-towards-ukraine/

Again, neither side is correct, neutral, innocent or without blame.
It takes a detailed study to understand why we are in the current situation.

In my view, all sides (NATO, looking at you.) need to talk and de-esculate the situation.

Racer X the expert in all geo political discussions has come to save the day!

Quote from ACCAkut :

...how stupid do you think I or anyone else could be?
but I'm sure you lot will explain to me how all these were produced by actors in evil NATO states.

..and if anyone thinks "why is idiot ACC still responding to these guys", well, one got to have some principle

What does NATO have to do with this?
Please explain what's wrong with these photos with children?

UPD

Quite right. In Russian kindergartens there is patriotic education, as in any country.
But the photographers are bad. Most often, educators and nannies themselves take pictures.
And yes, most often they do all this not for beauty and for memory, but for a report, for show.
But we do not teach children to hate Ukrainians and do not teach them some kind of chants with calls to kill those who are not Russian.

Quote from Aleksandr_124rus :

Here we go again.. Why every time I read you I feel like I'm watching Russian TV? I'm not interested in talking with Soloviev's and Kiselev's teiks. Do you have anything of your own? No? Well, then I'll have to answer what I have here.


And what? need to kill a bunch of Russian cuz of that? Mariupol is a Russian-speaking city, many of those living there identified themselves as Russians. Thanks to Russia's actions, there is nothing left of him. Like many other cities that were destroyed as a result of the outbreak of this war. And who knows how many people are still lying under the rubble.
Russia have nazi involvement in army too. So what we do then? Kill a buch of Tatars, or what? You read my message... But how it came to the Nazis in Russia who are supported by today's politics that ill mention, you did not mention it. You only mention what is beneficial to you. Everyone remembers the definition of propaganda that I gave above?


Show me a single one nazi in 2022 Ukrainian state policy or that is bullshit.


We hate them so much that we take them to work in the Wagner PMC or in other battalions like "Rusich" which fought in the Donbass... Society hates and the state works with them, a very hypocritical convenient position for someone like you.

Respect to you for your post, very honest and factual , and unbiased as you speak of the wrongs that both sides may have done.

I have noticed that others only pick at little parts of your post to argue/debate about, and totally miss the relevant parts such as "We hate them so much that we take them to work in the Wagner PMC or in other battalions like "Rusich" which fought in the Donbass... Society hates and the state works with them, a very hypocritical convenient position for someone like you."

One can only hope for peace, however late is will have come.

Quote from ACCAkut :

...how stupid do you think I or anyone else could be?

All I see is a German who wants to do a exclusion of a complete population. This has been done before in history. Olympic Games in Germany organized by Hitler 1936.

Some decades later: "Wir haben es nicht gewusst!"

This Z has not any value or do you think that showing white doves is also fascistic all of a sudden. Exclusion, apartheid, blaming whole population is one of the cornerstones of fascism. What you are writing is disgusting.

If anyone wonders why cargame.nl still responds, its because he has his principles.

Quote from Aleksandr_124rus :

Yes, it was just like you said. But what is "propaganda"? I understand propaganda as a intentionally biased presentation of information from the media. (Lie, half-truths, showing only one side of the truth when in fact there is another)

But you also show only one side of the truth here.

Maybe it's okay to tell only one side of a person who knows nothing about it. But in this message, I just don’t understand then how to separate you from someone who has heard enough of propaganda.

I do not want to write book essays about it because its a waste of time and it gives the dictatorial powers here tools to go the Putin way (again). It only shows that LFS 0.7 goes down the drain (who wants to host their server by a ruling Putin-style power :s , if anything being said or done what you do not like you start to lock up people for months. Nuts.)

But anyway... Propaganda.. Propaganda is writing whole 'news' stories from UA sources and then ending it in the last paragraph with an almost hidden line of text: "this information could not be verified". Most people do not read that far into an article or do not even know what it implies. This is the daily receipt for months already and this UA-clown even started to give medals to foreign "journalists" for their "work". Journalists are also not journalists anymore in the west. Just hardly grown up kids with a laptop and extensive ctrl-C/ctrl-V training. For a journalist, look at my current avatar.

Quote from cargame.nl :

look at my current avatar.

I looked, there are only pro-Russian posts: scary Azov, Ukraine bobming Donetsk, classic kiselev's "8 years" takes... this exactly is what I called propaganda. It does not even smell like journalism. There is enough of this in the Russian media.

Quote from cargame.nl :

This Z has not any value or do you think that showing white doves is also fascistic all of a sudden. Exclusion, apartheid, blaming whole population is one of the cornerstones of fascism. What you are writing is disgusting.

This symbol was cultized by Russian propaganda as a symbol of support for the war. Oops.. since this word is forbidden, we have introduce newspeak (like in George Ourell) Support for a "special military operation" As I wrote earlier, is not only a crime, but also a mistake, which only leads to an increase in the number of deaths, a deterioration in the economic situation for Russia and Ukraine, and a deterioration in the geopolitical situation for Russia.


Which, like Germany in 1939, began with Casus belli, (genocide of millions of Russians, Return of nuclear weapons by Ukraine, denazification, demetalization) Who thinks what kind of bullshit I wrote, then these are official reasons for attacking Ukraine...

There are many more similarities to be found. But that's not the point. The Third Reich is not modern Germany. The Third Reich is not Russia. And it not shouldn't compare to them. Just by Identity rule.

Quote from Aleksandr_124rus :

I looked, there are only pro-Russian posts: scary Azov, Ukraine bobming Donetsk, classic kiselev's "8 years" takes... this exactly is what I called propaganda. It does not even smell like journalism. There is enough of this in the Russian media.

It's a UK war (photo)journalist which was actually there (he is now back in London for the moment).

So you call this propaganda, right, well... Thats your opinion then.

Quote from Aleksandr_124rus :

This symbol

Ye, whatever.. Hyped by Germans mostly. There is a different symbol today appearing for the fifth million time or something. Any idea what it is, or maybe this knowledgeable ACC..

Never mind, its the Totenkopf SS nazi symbol. => https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62899474 (video)

Good luck with focusing on some silly Z's.

Quote from cargame.nl :

It's a UK war (photo)journalist which was actually there (he is now back in London for the moment).

And? What does it change? Even if he was a Jabba the Hutt from Tattooine, this does not change my words.

Quote from cargame.nl :

So you call this propaganda, right, well... Thats your opinion then.

What an opinion? I gave the definition of propaganda above, I did not see that you or anyone else would dispute it and give out your own definition.And after that you throw off the source that directly falls under this definition. Becausee that source gives only one side, and is silent about the other.
Journalism - is about reporting facts on all sides, journalism does not give an opinion, does not show only one side. In case of conflicts between two or more sides. The journalist will show all these sides, show the facts that happened there. If he shows some kind of opinion of a person on one side, then he must show the opinion of a person on the other side. This is journalism.

Otherwise, it forms the consciousness of the reader\listener one-sidedly, this is already propaganda by definition. Its not in my opinion.

That's why I said before that there is no journalism anymore. All major media on all over the world is propaganda. There are only some small media that doing it in honor the duty of journalism.

Quote from cargame.nl :

Never mind, its the Totenkopf SS nazi symbol. => https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62899474 (video)

If my Russian Internet would allow me to go to BBC.. But unfortunately many Western media sites are blocked in our country. I went with vpn and did not see any video there. Maybe the problem is in my vpn.

As I said earlier, both in Ukraine and in Russia there are some Nazis, (And in almost all countries) they are also in the military structures of Ukraine and Russia. But for some reason you are focusing only on Ukrainian... I find this very strange. This is just stange and wrong as some other person (who have heard enough left-liberal propaganda) that Russia is evil, that it uses Nazi symbols and Putin is almost the same like Hitler. And for some reason he is silent about other things.

There are at least 2 sides involved in the conflict, and if we take into account the West, then 3. All these sides are doing the wrong things. I don't understand why you focus on just one side that doing wrong things.

Quote from cargame.nl :

Good luck with focusing on some silly Z's.

I didn't bring up the Z subject. I tell you in response that you underestimate its importance in propaganda.

Quote from pärtan :

Ironically you really emphasized the distinction between government and people in Russia. But then went on to say that the western people support war with their deeds.

The irony is that us/eu have imposed a ban on russian gas/oil and buys bypassing their own sanctions at treply expensive and a lot!

Quote from dfgjkl :

The irony is that us/eu have imposed a ban on russian gas/oil and buys bypassing their own sanctions at treply expensive and a lot!

With Oil there's other reliable suppliers such as the USA, Netherlands, Sweden, Belgium and Saudi Arabia, at least two-thirds of Uk road fuel comes from our own domestic production. The reason it throws prices up is because its a global market and it affects prices as a whole.

With Natural gas, 3% of our gas had been coming from Russia and about half comes from the North Sea, and a third is sourced from Norway, then bits of LNG had coming from countries such as Qatar and the US and russia.

Quote from bishtop :

With Oil there's other reliable suppliers such as the USA, Netherlands, Sweden, Belgium and Saudi Arabia, at least two-thirds of Uk road fuel comes from our own domestic production. The reason it throws prices up is because its a global market and it affects prices as a whole.

With Natural gas, 3% of our gas had been coming from Russia and about half comes from the North Sea, and a third is sourced from Norway, then bits of LNG had coming from countries such as Qatar and the US and russia.

No matter how much, even a Zippo lighter.

something has changed in?

Quote :

The irony is that us/eu have imposed a ban on russian gas/oil and buys bypassing their own sanctions at treply expensive and a lot!

ok dont like i wrote a lot!? but at what price? only this is a little bit for a lot of money and sponsors a special military operation.

Quote from dfgjkl :

No matter how much, even a Zippo lighter.

something has changed in?



ok dont like i wrote a lot!? but at what price? only this is a little bit for a lot of money and sponsors a special military operation.

I said the UK "Had been" in past tense, leading up to the War - In the 12 months leading up to the war, the UK imported an average of £499m of fuel from Russia but this figure has dropped to zero, the UK has been compensating by increasing imports of refined oil from Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the Netherlands and Belgium.

I was unsure if LNG (liquid natural gas) purchases had been phased out completely, but according to the UK Parliament it has.

Quote " In June 2022, the fourth full month since the invasion, according to UK trade statistics, the UK Imported no oil, gas or coal from Russia. This was the third month in a row with no Russian gas imports, but the first month (since 2000 when this data is available back to) with no gas, oil or coal imports from Russia. Before the Invasion overall energy imports from Russia in the year to June 2022 were £4.4 billion "

https://commonslibrary.parliam ... earch-briefings/cbp-9523/

I didn’t say a word about the UK

Quote from dfgjkl :

I didn’t say a word about the UK

First the UK is a Western Country, and you responded my post regarding the UK's imports

Also the US have in place an Executive Order (E.O.) of March 8, 2022 “Prohibiting Certain Imports" into the United States of crude oil; petroleum; petroleum fuels, oils, and products of their distillation; liquefied natural gas; coal; and coal products of Russian Federation origin.

https://home.treasury.gov/syst ... s_imports_investments.pdf

I believe that Importation deals that had been made prior to March still went ahead and the ban was on new deals being made after that date.

"Certain imports" does leave one wondering what the allowed imports are though.

This is what we're told anyway, but as with any government, if its true or not is another matter, but until facts state otherwise its what we have.

I don't mind flooding
Re-read what I replied to first
And then you came with your UK
Although there is no difference it doesn't change anything at all in my statement.

Quote from dfgjkl :

I don't mind flooding
Re-read what I replied to first
And then you came with your UK
Although there is no difference it doesn't change anything at all in my statement.

Guess you did not see what i also posted about the US !

Quote from bishtop :

Also the US have in place an Executive Order (E.O.) of March 8, 2022 “Prohibiting Certain Imports" into the United States of crude oil; petroleum; petroleum fuels, oils, and products of their distillation; liquefied natural gas; coal; and coal products of Russian Federation origin.

https://home.treasury.gov/syst ... s_imports_investments.pdf

I believe that Importation deals that had been made prior to March still went ahead and the ban was on new deals being made after that date.

"Certain imports" does leave one wondering what the allowed imports are though.

This is what we're told anyway, but as with any government, if its true or not is another matter, but until facts state otherwise its what we have.

I'll paraphrase - the fact that "it doesn't change anything at all in my statement" read above,and then you can write as much as you want and anything until you get tired and I will not get tired of repeating to you.

Quote from dfgjkl :

I'll paraphrase - the fact that "it doesn't change anything at all in my statement" read above,and then you can write as much as you want and anything until you get tired and I will not get tired of repeating to you.

Oh i understand. never accept when wrong. I know it's not a nice feeling



Very mature of you

Here we go again...

...About military conflict... The biggest and most critical secret is not yet revealed of what is behind of every reason to start conflict/war/military operation.


About do I hate Russians?

My answer is irrelevant.

Quote from bishtop :

Oh i understand. never accept when wrong. I know it's not a nice feeling



Very mature of you

I can accept when i was wrong.And the fact that you smoothly switched to personalities, you seem to admit that you are wrong.

imho its quite funny how did you react when I did not generalize, but accurately indicated the sides us/eu.
you know the saying "the hat on the thief is on fire" you started talking about your UK
the sum does not change from a change in the places of the terms

Quote :

The irony is that us/eu have imposed a ban on russian gas/oil and buys bypassing their own sanctions at treply expensive and a lot!

^^what has changed?^^

then you started talking about the share of russian gas in the UK
what was the best thing about buying 3% at 50, became 1% at 3000? (the numbers are not accurate, this is me for clarity)

Quote from Aleksandr_124rus :

As I said earlier, both in Ukraine and in Russia there are some Nazis, (And in almost all countries) they are also in the military structures of Ukraine and Russia. But for some reason you are focusing only on Ukrainian... I find this very strange.

You find this very strange, well, my money goes to funding this total scum while I don't want to. The prime minister of my country said its even FAMILY. Wtactualf. How strange is that sounding to you?

If you would keep very close attention on what my focus is, then I am not focusing on this at all. Some other person here brought a symbol ... Well its not even a symbol but anyway.. Someone elses attention is on it which is actually the extreme narrow view what a lot of people have. This narrow point of view is being narrowed by mass media and the UA propaganda machine.

Back to the main question you have, should people be hated, excluded from sports, tourism, be on this planet, bullied, dehumanized just because of their nationality or race? No! Ofcourse not, where in history this ever leaded to good results?

Quote from ACCAkut :

It's you, the Russian population

this is disgusting

I stick with that, nothing to say anymore in this topic.

If I went looking for them I could read posts like yours by the dozen every day. But it's especially saddening to see a person I have met face to face (Kart Meet 2012) plunge off the deep end like that.

A bit of a different review on current Russian armor in the Ukraine and what may be going on to cause the present situation.
https://youtu.be/kT_ljkO3adY?t=2
(FYI, Lazerpig so just deal with the ad , It's better than most Youtube content )

Non partisan so probably far more honest than anything in the mainstream media.