I have to say, LFS has awsome realism in the shifting and transmissions. The only other game I think where it simulates clutchless shifting is Viper Racing.


There is one problem though, LFS doesn't give you any reason to clutchless shift or double clutch because all the cars downshift into first gear as if they were sequentials. In real life, on 90 percent of the cars out there that have standard manual transmissions, the wide ratio gap between first and second gear makes it hard for the syncronizers thus you can't get into first gear at anything above 5-15mph depending of course on the ratio gap and the synchronizer quality. The only way to get into first above those speeds in real life is to either double clutch or clutchless shift.

I think LFS with the "clutch help" driver aid on shouldn't let you into first at all above those speeds. If someone (probably an autoXer because you don't really go into first on most tracks)wants to get into first at a higher speed, then they should have to work the clutch manually and do their own double clutching/clutchless.


I also think instead of having the "shifting help" driver controller aid or whatever that shifts the gears for you no matter what car, I think that should be eliminated and offer realistic automatic transmissions with torque converters only on the appropriate vehicles. If someone can't shift their own gears and wants to drive the LX4 or something, tough luck, just like in real life.

Same with getting rid of the "throttle help" and "brake help" driver controller aid for the realistic systems out there and applied to only the appropriate vehicles.

This would make LFS the ULTIMATE simulation!!

Problem is you can change your gear ratios to be as close as you'd like... and I think putting a realistic slushbox in the game would take a lot of hard work for something that would be so greatly looked down upon. I'm sure the more realistic it was made, the more you would try to avoid it; the more you would curse at it. No one would ever use it unless the car only came in that variety and that is unrealistic.

Anyway, synchro simulation would need like a... FFB gear lever, yeah?

Quote from wark :

Problem is you can change your gear ratios to be as close as you'd like... and I think putting a realistic slushbox in the game would take a lot of hard work for something that would be so greatly looked down upon. I'm sure the more realistic it was made, the more you would try to avoid it; the more you would curse at it. No one would ever use it unless the car only came in that variety and that is unrealistic.

Anyway, synchro simulation would need like a... FFB gear lever, yeah?

Which is why it should be based off gear ratios. In typical gear ratios that I am sure just about everyone here uses in LFS or in their real cars, you need one helluva synchro to just plunk it right into first gear like you can in LFS.

LFS already has some nice things built in like clutchless shifting realism, but with our "magical" 2nd to 1st gear downshift there is absolutely no reason to clutchless or double clutch in LFS, which is a shame since it is built into the game and that it is a sim.


As for the automatic, that is also the whole point. Not many would use it. Right now it is just like Need For Speed where you turn on automatic shifting and it does it all perfectly. Well, I have news. In real life slushbox automatics don't do things perfectly, they are all slushy and shift for fuel economy. If someone absolutely needs to drive an automatic in LFS, I think they should have to put up with it because this is in fact, A SIM.

I agree with more realistic transmission simulation, but unless excellent 3 pedaled wheel sets are available on the market, I say forget it. Unless of course LFS developers decided to create and sell their own LFS style wheel sets.

As for the 2nd to 1st shift issue, it isn't as serious as it seems. I drive a manual 4sp petrol sedan. 1st gear is good for 35kph while second is good for 60kph, but I have no problems shifting 2nd to 1st at any speed below 20kph as long as I match the revs well. Just remember not to rush it (plan the shift in advance). It's a 1980's car.

As for slushboxes, well, let's LFS is a sim and as far as I am concerned, the auto shift option should be removed. Cars MUST be driven as the manual transmission vehicles they are.

But unless clutch pedals become common for wheel sets, auto clutch is still mandatory.

Quote from Jamexing :

I agree with more realistic transmission simulation, but unless excellent 3 pedaled wheel sets are available on the market, I say forget it. Unless of course LFS developers decided to create and sell their own LFS style wheel sets.

As for the 2nd to 1st shift issue, it isn't as serious as it seems. I drive a manual 4sp petrol sedan. 1st gear is good for 35kph while second is good for 60kph, but I have no problems shifting 2nd to 1st at any speed below 20kph as long as I match the revs well. Just remember not to rush it (plan the shift in advance). It's a 1980's car.

As for slushboxes, well, let's LFS is a sim and as far as I am concerned, the auto shift option should be removed. Cars MUST be driven as the manual transmission vehicles they are.

But unless clutch pedals become common for wheel sets, auto clutch is still mandatory.

Totally agreed!

Quote from Jamexing :

But unless clutch pedals become common for wheel sets, auto clutch is still mandatory.

But currently there is no use of having a clutch pedal since in LFS it's quite useless/unrealistic atm. If LFS had a decent clutch I would immediatelly upgrade my pedals Still, agree with all the other stuff you said.

Quote from modenaf1 :

Same with getting rid of the "throttle help" and "brake help" driver controller aid for the realistic systems out there and applied to only the appropriate vehicles.

Unfortunatly this would not allow any keyboarders to access these vehicles, the help options are there to help the newcomers get some good gameplay, and become addicted enough to go out and buy a wheel ,then they can choose to switch off the helps to increase realism.

SD.

nKPro got transmissions right, but I will not take this discusion in to a war of sims. There are many issues with the transmissions in LFS not just the problem of shifting in to first being easy as hell.

First off the amount of adjustability is just silly. There are a very finite number of useable gearsets in a transmission. The size of the housing, the spacing of the internal input and output shafts and the gear tooth size all factor in to limit the choices avalable. Not to mention that in street transmissions you often only have a few choices and and they come as a complete set of gears not just a single gear. Racing transmissions allow for individual gears to be swaped out to suit the application.

Final drive ratios are the same there are only a finite number of ratios that are possible. I woudl love for this to be changed. It adds to the realism, simplifies setups and forces you to make choices as there will not likely be the perfect solution for ever track, do you take top speed or acceleration if the right choice falls between avalable ratios?

Quote from modenaf1 :

... the whole point. Not many would use it.

And my main point is Scawen would be unwise to waste a month (give or take a week) on getting it just right if it's such a clique thing--and a feature that would be nothing but senseless cooties in the eyes of some (as it is in my very own garage). I can't speak for Scawen, but I can use my imagination...

Nevertheless, I'm all for removing the auto-shift function.

Slushboxes were made for handicapped people. Discuss amongst yourselves.
"No! Soandso has found a great use for them!" you will opine. Yet I shall say, Q.E.D., they are handicapped. Handicapped people need no such further handicapping to play LFS.

Gimpster, +1

Can pressing shift up + shift down buttons together in sequential mode shift gears to neutral like in real cars? This can be usefull when you crash. This wil be fastre then 5-4-3-2-1. Thats all what i need.

Use clutch for that

I think simulating syncros is not needed and would just complicate things for no good reason. Yes, it's not terribly realistic that you can shift into 1st at 30mph instantly, but seriously...it's something 9 out of 10 racers never do anyway because it's only useful on very tight autocross layouts.

And then there's the problem of implementation. In a real car you know that you're in gear and can let go of the clutch because the shifter clicks into place, but how would you convey that in a sim without having a force feedback shifter? Would you have a "shifter is in gear" light on the dash or would you want people to stare at the gear indicator/shifter?
Simulating syncros without being able to simulate shifter behaviour would be worthless and turn downshifts into a crapshoot.

Of course realism is extremely important, but the game is supposed to reward skill, not guesswork, and in the end you would merely be guessing the results of the games syncro algorithm during a shift.

Go drive the FF1600 in nKPro with no aids and a buton clutch or auto clutch, it tells you, you hear it click, you quickly learn the timing just like in a real car. Its not impossible to do, it just has not been done right in LFS yet. Sometimes I wish LFS and nKPro would merge in to a single project, its like they are two halfs of a whole, the areas where each suffers the other excells and vise versa.