Hello!

I have driven some Racekarts and a Formula car in real life (200hp / 500kg) and know that it does really throw your head around in the cockpit. Not the body as you usually wear the seatbelts very tight. But you get pressed into them under braking.

Now in a stronger Formula car these Forces and Vibrations that occur are extraordinary bigger than in a smaller Formula car, F1 drivers practise and do have to have strong neck muscles to absorb these constant forces.

Please take a look at this lap from Alonso in Silverstone some years ago, the camera is mounted next to the drivers helmet and imagine the viewpoint he must have under the g-forces.

Alonso in Silverstone


Also take a closer look at Schumachers helmet in this Video:

Schumacher Onboard in Estoril early 90s


Interlagos is known for its bumpy tarmac, take a look at Sennas head shaking around in the Infield

Senna in Interlagos Qualy


What do you think could be a authentic Head Movements Setting in LFS to cover those Movements in that BMW ?

Here's one of Kimi.

Great video of Alonso, makes LFS seem slow!

You can change the head tilt under the View section of Settings, something I did a while ago.

At the bottom of the Aston dipper, all I can see is my dashboard

Great that the g force simulation is really simulated and not scripted or something but I think the head movement in LFS needs to be somehow "smoothened". When using a higher settings the all the time jumping screen gives just a headache.

Dont forget that an F1 car generates 9g in Becketts corner, so the Alonso video is perhaps a poor example of 'typical' head movements.

I doubt it's 9G, more like 4.5, 5G from the stuff I've read. I'm pretty sure 9G was what Justin Wilson took when he hit the barrier backwards at a very high speed.

Keiran

Quote from keiran :

I doubt it's 9G, more like 4.5, 5G from the stuff I've read. I'm pretty sure 9G was what Justin Wilson took when he hit the barrier backwards at a very high speed.

Keiran

actually, when a formula 1 crashes it produces 40-130g


when a passenger plane crashes into water it produces 300g

9g is the sort of forces a fighter pilot goes through with G suits and its still around the blackout point.

i was watching the telemetary on sundays race and most cars were hitting 5g under braking/turning, since most tracks are clock-wise, when its an anti-clockwise track, some drivers find it hard to attune their neck to be in the opposite turning side...

Quote from keiran :

I doubt it's 9G, more like 4.5, 5G from the stuff I've read. I'm pretty sure 9G was what Justin Wilson took when he hit the barrier backwards at a very high speed.

I think 4G is about as much as you'd experience normally. I remember the R8s were pulling 2G round the Porsche Curves for 24 hours.

It's 9g mommentarily at Beckets on the direction changes, through the corner the sustained force is less.

Quote from Becky Rose :

It's 9g mommentarily at Beckets on the direction changes, through the corner the sustained force is less.

The 9g you talk about is the combination of the 4.5 g each way not 9g in one direction which is totally different.

With 9G, even a well-trained jet fighter pilot in his suit is unconcious... Normally, someone can stand about 3G (max. 3.5G) without a special training or a pressure suit for a short time...

Here is a good example of comparing head movement in a F1 car, from an average person, to a F1 driver.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Dp3-cpzASlQ

Not exactly a good comparison... He's a comedian... I don't think he was even trying...

Quote from bbman :

With 9G, even a well-trained jet fighter pilot in his suit is unconcious... Normally, someone can stand about 3G (max. 3.5G) without a special training or a pressure suit for a short time...

Turn 8 at hungry drivers are at 3-4.5g for a few seconds. I doubt you will get anyone blacking out before 4g.

Its above 6 when people will start to blackout. In the late 90s CART had to abandon a meeting because drivers were having inner ear problems and getting dizzy as the cars were pulling over 5g in the corners.

*edit*

Read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G ... #Human_g-force_experience

Quote from bbman :

With 9G, even a well-trained jet fighter pilot in his suit is unconcious... Normally, someone can stand about 3G (max. 3.5G) without a special training or a pressure suit for a short time...

It should be remembered that the 9G a fighter pilot pulls is totally different to the 4G a racing driver pulls because one is a vertical force (much easier to stand on the neck) but a F1 car is pulling lateral Gs which mean the force is sideways on the head.

If you lie on your side, but with your head unsupported, that is 1 g on your head. 4g must seriously hurt your neck.

I wonder how many g's a kart produces around an average corner...

Found a link: http://www.bondurantsuperkarts.com/kartspecs.php

Quote from DaveWS :

I wonder how many g's a kart produces around an average corner...

Time for a completely OT question, has anyone got laptimes for shifter karts (or any other karts for that matter) round UK (car) racing circuits?

Quote from ajp71 :

Time for a completely OT question, has anyone got laptimes for shifter karts (or any other karts for that matter) round UK (car) racing circuits?

I'll ask my Dad tomorrow and see if he can remember any for Knockhill. Although this is going back a good bit, 15-20 years at least

Even though back then gearbox karts were quick. They could seemingly out accelerate a F1 car obviously until they hit a certain speed when the F1 car got into its stride. I think that might have been a 210 or were they 250s can't remmeber now

As far as I know, F1 cars can pull 5 Gs in turns, and 6G at high speed braking (due to the downforce)

Ouch.illepall

It's the vertical G's that cause one to blackout. Positive G's slow the flow of blood to the brain, which causes a blackout. Negative G's (when pitching down suddenly) will cause a rush of blood to the brain, which is known as a red-out because the pilot will literally see red if the G's are strong enough...

In an F1 car the G's are lateral, so the blood can still travel up to the brain, hence no blackouts. I've never heard of 9 lateral G's in F1 anyway.

Returning to Georges original topic about the head shaking. In rFactor this is modelled but I found it annoying so I disabled it in the PLR file. I think what we have in LFS is spot-on. Only the large head movements are modelled, you wouldn't notice the smaller rapid shakes because your eyes and brain automatically stabilise the image (Try shaking you head while looking at the screen), thats why they shouldn't be modelled.
Now if something mechanical were to happen, like a flat tyre or damage to the suspension etc.. it would be cool if vibrations were modelled, the ones that rattle your eyes out of their sockets.

Quote from ajp71 :

Time for a completely OT question, has anyone got laptimes for shifter karts (or any other karts for that matter) round UK (car) racing circuits?

Superkart grand prix results at cadwell: http://www.superkart.org.uk/co ... rt_Grand_Prix_Results.pdf

Quote from Burnzoire :

In an F1 car the G's are lateral, so the blood can still travel up to the brain, hence no blackouts. I've never heard of 9 lateral G's in F1 anyway.

I heard of people blacking out in drag races. From wikipedia.org:

"The fastest top fuelers can attain terminal speeds of over 530 km/h (330 mph) while covering the quarter mile (402 m) distance in roughly 4.45 seconds."

I can imagine that accelerating from 0 to 530 km/h in just over 4 seconds can get you to black out.