Felipe_Ribas
Demo Racer


Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 5 Cars skid too much?

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hi, im a brazilian player so i have a bad english, sorry all. but my suggestion is to regulate cars attrition because i thing they skid too much in the road, lika a soap in the bath understand?
........... This just cracked me up! funny sh*t

I know how un-flat my parents garden is, and I've tried to get that flat. LFS grass is almost mirror flat in comparison. I find in general the tracks aren't that bumpy. South City especially should be a bit bumpier.

the tracks bumpiness (TM) is fine, but imho the grass doesn't need to spin you, it shouldn't be so slippery BUT it should throw your car around

And the gravel traps are just that, they are supposed to trap the car, to aid deceleration of the car to try and stop it from smashing into a wall, they aren't designed to be driven away from

Quote from Bob Smith :

I know how un-flat my parents garden is, and I've tried to get that flat. LFS grass is almost mirror flat in comparison. I find in general the tracks aren't that bumpy. South City especially should be a bit bumpier.

The rallycross tracks are way too flat too

Actually, the rally tracks are all over the place when it comes to bumps. The nastiest bump sequence must be that of BL rallycross. There's no way to run a hotlap without suspension damage. The only ways to avoid all damage are to:

1.Use ridiculously stiff springs.
2.Ridiculously high ride height.

Both of which significantly reduces grip, traction and stability.

Point is, all the rallycross bumps feel more like concrete barriers than proper gravel, mud or dust/sand.

Quote from Jamexing :

Actually, the rally tracks are all over the place when it comes to bumps. The nastiest bump sequence must be that of BL rallycross. There's no way to run a hotlap without suspension damage. The only ways to avoid all damage are to:

1.Use ridiculously stiff springs.
2.Ridiculously high ride height.

Both of which significantly reduces grip, traction and stability.

Point is, all the rallycross bumps feel more like concrete barriers than proper gravel, mud or dust/sand.

It is part of rallying to go over the bumps, dips and jumper with right speed. When you go over the big bumps on BL2 (before coming to the trarmac track), you drive on full speed there while in irl you would lift or even brake.

Some pics from rallycross track:
Loom closely the pics and you see what I mean the "lack of bumps" on rallycross tracks in LFS

Yea but with Rally cross (Or any dirt arena) you would change the very surface your driving on every time you pass it. LFS would have to compute degredation of a pristine track into the ones you use as an example every time a trye passed over any particular spot. I don't think there are many programs or even computers out there that could model particle physics to that degree on the fly.

I don't know if LFS has the spare capacity to put in more surface undulations as would reflect RL in a more convincing manner but I'm fairly sure it wouldn't give you surface degredation. Although I could bve completly wrong. I usually am.

Quote from Funnybear :

Yea but with Rally cross (Or any dirt arena) you would change the very surface your driving on every time you pass it. LFS would have to compute degredation of a pristine track into the ones you use as an example every time a trye passed over any particular spot. I don't think there are many programs or even computers out there that could model particle physics to that degree on the fly.

I don't know if LFS has the spare capacity to put in more surface undulations as would reflect RL in a more convincing manner but I'm fairly sure it wouldn't give you surface degredation. Although I could bve completly wrong. I usually am.

doesn't RBR?

Doesn't RBR what?

Quote from Funnybear :

Doesn't RBR what?

i'm sure i remember reading that RBR dynamically changes the surface after a car has driven over it, although i might be mistaken

That the grass is slippery is not the problem. Its that it is so incredibly hard to control the car on grass is the problem. IRL (and on other sims for that matter) you can floor the throttle and NOT suddenly do a donut. The car may move a bit sideways, but not much and not suddenly, especially if the front wheels are straight. Its the lack of control that is unrealistic.

Do you watch many races?

Grass is not easy to drive on. Not when you have 300-400bhp trying to get out the rear wheels.

Grass, as with ice and water is only any good if your exit is directly in front of you and you don't have to steer. Unless you are at a slow enough speed that gravity can ensure grip then grass is gunna slip you just like everything else . . .

i dont find the grass very hard to drive on at all... if you watch f1, you'll notice that the grass seems to cause the car to bounce and even get airborne and also damage the car.

And, if your leaning heavily on the outside rear tyre (say exiting a corner), and put that wheel on the grass, you are going to exit stage backwards. It happens in real life too - grass + rear tyre + hard cornering = spin.

Quote from ajp71 :

Still leaves two issues:

1. You can usually get out of them.

2. IRL road cars do not get out of gravel traps.

I was watching some racing today, I want to revise my statement about the gravel traps. Gravel should be nearly impossible to get out in LFS to be realistic.

Anyway after racing with the FOX's today, I do think that the grass is a little too slippery compared to reality.

Quote from tristancliffe :

And, if your leaning heavily on the outside rear tyre (say exiting a corner), and put that wheel on the grass, you are going to exit stage backwards. It happens in real life too - grass + rear tyre + hard cornering = spin.

Agreed.

But take any powerful car out to a grassy field, stop, put in first gear, front wheels straight ahead, and them floor it. What happens? Nothing. The car doesn't move much at all. In LFS, that exact sequence results in donuts. And if there is any steering angle at all, its much much worse.

Watch during IRL races when cars leave the track and get into the grass. Assuming the car isn't damaged, they are spinning the rears like mad trying to get some speed back as they return to the track. Do they snap around? Are the drivers having to struggle to keep the car under control even at partial throttle? No.

Quote from Jakg :

i'm sure i remember reading that RBR dynamically changes the surface after a car has driven over it, although i might be mistaken

What's the use to change the surface when you are going to drive over it only once in RBR And for LFS I'd like to see much more of those smaller bumps, dips, holes and softer/harder areas of a rallycross track. After all, the rallycross tracks in LFS have similar gravel all over the track, while in real life you have softer areas, harder areas and areas with different kind of surfaces mixed (small rocks on tarmac, sand on tarmac, etc...). But that's a bit OT.

The biggest thing that bothers me a little is that all cars seem to have equal grip levels on grass, while a BF1 should be a whole lot slipperier than a, say, XF GTi.

Quote from tristancliffe :

And, if your leaning heavily on the outside rear tyre (say exiting a corner), and put that wheel on the grass, you are going to exit stage backwards. It happens in real life too - grass + rear tyre + hard cornering = spin.

this happens in lfs as well. but very rarely. maybe its because we are just good at not crashing? i havent done any actual testing.


I seem to remember the car understeering and sliding towards the outside of the corner more than doing a 180 spin... as i said before it could just be me avoiding a bad accident since i havent tried spinning out on purpose yet. Although, I do drop the outside rear tire onto the grass with the xrt sometimes when drifting. this is a technique used IRL

I've noticed it millions of times (followed by excessive swearing) on the first turn at Aston Nat/GP etc in the FZR. Left rear wheel on the grass exiting T1 on the limit and bam, in the wall backwards.

Very annoying. And probably quite realistic. Ish.

The issue of doing donuts in LFS is a weird one. Any amount of wheelspin in a RWD car results in the car trying to turn very tightly, whereas in real life the car will tend to go more straight (or barely move, depending on the amount of wheelspin etc) until a higher speed is reached when it becomes 'all over the place'.

Exit of turn 4 at WE could do with a curb.

Quote from tristancliffe :

The issue of doing donuts in LFS is a weird one. Any amount of wheelspin in a RWD car results in the car trying to turn very tightly, whereas in real life the car will tend to go more straight (or barely move, depending on the amount of wheelspin etc) until a higher speed is reached when it becomes 'all over the place'.

This is to do with the differential. Try the wheelspin test with an open diff, and then a locked diff. Open diff won't spin, locked will.

Not sure about it IRL though.

First thing I do If I'm driving and find myself on a grass verge . . .

FWD, keep the power on (Moderatly and gauged) power through with the front wheels depending on whether I got and exit or not. If I don't and it's just grass then a brick wall or something then I am ****ed. You cannot stop or steer on grass. Period.

RWD. Been there, done that. Your in it for the ride. Sure, if you are on a good track with open treads and a good car then sure, powersteer your way out of it. If your going from a road to grass then you have no hope in hell. Honest. I have driven enough vehicles in my time that I know what will happen if get on slippery stuff at any kinda speed. Things are going to go wrong, very fast.

Sure. Do all the right things, countersteer, get of the throttle, don't touch the brakes, engine brake. Do all of those things. It ain't gunna help you unless you have the experiance and the skill. And even then you could do a Kimi and park it arsewards into the tyres. Or in my case park your new BMW on it's roof up an embankment. Go find your self an airfield. Get up to racing speed on the runway, then take to the grass. Tell me how you get on.

Actually case in point. Top gear. We all watch that. Cheap car, no power. Who recovers from taking to the grass? Who? Tell me please.

Quote from Funnybear :

Actually case in point. Top gear. We all watch that. Cheap car, no power. Who recovers from taking to the grass? Who? Tell me please.

Correction: Reasonably priced car, no power.

Anyway, I still think the wheel on grass effect is worse in LFS than IRL. Earlier today I outbraked myself at a 25 mph corner in the FOX, just slid on to the grass, and it took me around 15 seconds to recover.

Quote from Gabkicks :

this happens in lfs as well. but very rarely. maybe its because we are just good at not crashing? i havent done any actual testing.

it happens a lot at westhill with those nonexistant curbs there
although as i mentioned the effect in lfs is currently stronger than it should be (assuming dirt really is applied across the whole width of the tyre)

Quote from tristancliffe :

And, if your leaning heavily on the outside rear tyre (say exiting a corner), and put that wheel on the grass, you are going to exit stage backwards. It happens in real life too - grass + rear tyre + hard cornering = spin.

that may be true for slick tires; but when you have new tires with brand new tread, that tread is going to cut up the grass and dig into the dirt and get you going where you have the steering wheel pointed (obviously this depends on the density and viscosity of the dirt underneath; mud you may have some slipping problems, and too hard dirt wont dig up, but normal [whatever normal is lol] ground will just get ripped up by tires giving you tractoin)

the best way to show off what makes LFS so horrid at grass, is taking any car (preferably one with treaded tires), go as fast as you can down some strip with grass off to the side, pull of to the side, and get it going sideways and hold all brakes down. In dry circumstances (since.. thats all we have in LFS) being based in a non-arid location of England, a car should stop somewhat quickly and dig into the dirt.. in LFS, its like it has been raining for quite some time and you continue to slide with very little friction

and finally, sliding should be minimal in fern bay compared to all other tracks, because it is based in jamaica where dirt on tropical islands as such isn't exactly dirt as compared to say England or here in the US, but rather its a small portion of dirt, some rock, and plenty of sand