This post is part of one list from my notepad splitted into three separate topics:
LFS Suggestions
LFS Modeller Suggestions
LFS Editor Suggestions

LFSE:
Some I consider important:
0. Point #8 in LFS suggestions thread applies to LFSE as well.
3. Fix: Chat text overlaps and hides the mesh points. (Also would be nice to have it smaller and LESS annoying while you work on other things leaving highlited bugs for later fix).
5. Add: RMB values insertion for:
a) colours.
6. Fix: LMB/RMB small/big (0.010/0.001) values adjustments are inverted in some places right now:
a)Pivot point values in special draw mode.
b)Aerodynamic values
9. Add: Allow -> AT or MT only.
10. Add: [Draw points] to [Special view] separately. Sometimes it's good to see them with wireframe only without frame.
11. Add: Break from SUBs to SUBs.(I've heared it's done, thanks!)
12. Add: Merge from SUBS to SUBs. Somewhat as we assign tris to configs.
13. Add: Move/Rotate axis of subobject wthout moving/rotating object's points/mesh. Useful for adjusting future parts axis as pop-up headlights or wipers.
14. Allow to lock LHD or RHD. Right now you can "select side", but when you lock the side it switches back to "built as". I made perfectly switching side model and I want to make separate LHD and RHD versions by clicking just one button instead of moving driver/finding RHD subs/Flipping points/Flipping tris/Fixing Maps. Too much hassle.
15. Flip attachments (with mapping). Now to flip attachment, I have to manually flip points, flip faces (tris), then I have to fix wrong mapping that did not flip.
16. Ctrl+RMB - Copy, Shift+RMB - Paste for whole set blocks as [Suspension], [Transmission] etc. So you can swap whole tranny from one set to another in couple clicks.

Questionable, but i'll share:
17. Add: Optional ON/OFF light-up timing values for Lamp/LED lights/indicators. Reason: Lamp lights does not light-up immediately as LEDs. (Bad idea in case one mod may contain different types at different configurations at once, but anyway)
18. Add: [Show Main], [Show Wheels], [Show Subs] buttons in main menu and special draw as well, same as in LFSModeller.
19. Don't reset steering angle when 'car drop'.
20. Add: Disable aerodynamic parts in aerodynamics menu when in use (Sorry I didn't find HOW tu un-use it back).

Note: I understand it can't be made by the finger click. I just shared some enhancements I would do if I could.

Quote from Snoop.DriftEra :

Some ideas from my notepad:

Maybe toggle mirrored points on-off? Because it’s kinda distracting to see the pink point, while it cannot be selected on “point” menu

- Every new update of mod in pits shows up the list of changes. So every time when you downloading mod from mod list it shows up a window in pits with change log.

- Schedule of deleting old mod folders. Every x days game takes info about all last versions of mods, for example “GE20~22, KAROBUS 734~15 etc” goes to the LFS/mods and delete everything that doesn’t match with the latest info.

- About custom clocks. I’d like to see full custom clocks, in vehicle editor we can choose clocks, add there button for making new one, then assemble it by yourself. For example, you see a list of all things from clocks “Needle, Background, Gauge of speedometer, turbo etc” all these things have options like number of steps, adding numbers or not, how long would be needle etc. Every part can be textured, or used like default from stock clocks(variable). For example you choose needle, then pick the texture for it from LFS/Editor/ClocksPng folder. Ofc it’s need to be optimized, like for needle available texture is 16x16 for background 256x256.. Then you just use your own clocks and can Edit it in Vehicle Editor as default ones.

- More configurations, 4 isn’t enough.

- Handling on bike. After 8km/h on bikes it goes to the “straight steering”, can it be more slowly and starts from 15-20km/h. Because slow driving on bike so hard in this way, when you got this lock of steering slowly you can be more stable. This locking must linked to the speed, like it starts from 15km/h with max steering and till 60-80km/h it locks to the “straight” then you steering only with tilting.

- Add more default cutouts as (s_mirr, s_clock) in Vehicle Editor. Add more working cutouts, for example the map, value of engine damage, clutch heating, pitch angle, wheel temperatures, pit instructions etc. A lot of ideas about making navigator or gauge of tilt on bike.

- Animation of pop-up lights.🙃 New subobject for pop-up lights. Add changeable function of rotating angle from center point of this subob (or rotating it from subob icon) and speed of rotating, so when you turn on lights it rotates.

- Cutout for square-form numberplates. New “s_plate_sqr” cutout on two lines, where you can choose how many digits will be above and under. Crop it and make two mappings isn’t working because number length can be different and you never know where to cut it out”.

Quote from FIZ :

While it is important to have a cleanup function that removes all the old versions of a mod, I disagree about an enhancement check based on replays also.

A cleanup function has been added to Test Patch D17. It would be interesting to know how many mods it wants to clean up for you (it offers a button "Delete X of Y mods") and how much the folder size is reduced if you use the function.

Quote from Snoop.DriftEra :

LFS Editor suggestions only thread, LFS Modeller suggestions only thread, LFS Mod system suggestions tread. Confusing...... Is it the right place?

It may be confusing for you, but try to imagine how confusing it is for me, dealing with suggestions all over the place. It's simply helpful and more likely to end up with me doing something, if the request or report is in the right place.

I guess it can't really be so hard to understand? There are only two separate suggestions threads in this forum section. The modeller is where you create a 3D object (points, triangles, mappings). Everything else (vehicle editor, website, mods in game, etc) is not the modeller. It's easier for me to track if you separated your requests into two separate posts, one for the mods system in general, and separately for the modeller.

You see, I can usually update the modeller without any compatibility problems. For example I add a new way to select triangles or a hotkey. There is no compatibility problem. But adding a new kind of suspension physics in the vehicle editor, this is impossible without new versions released. So there is a reason, I'm not just trying to be difficult.

Most of your points are really about the modeller, so would be better placed in the other thread.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback, I can answer a couple of things.

Quote from Snoop.DriftEra :

1. Add: REDO UNDO!!!! For selected items and other actions in other work spaces (Too annoying to not have this).

Redo is quite a lot more difficult from a programming point of view, as the editor wasn't designed in such a way to support that from the outset.

Quote from Snoop.DriftEra :

4. Fix: Texture page 1 pixel bug. Please fix. (it's the whole LFS bug, e.g. XRT's rear seat texture center white stripe).

I don't think this is a bug, if you are talking about the blending from nearby pixels. It's more the atrist's responsibility to ensure that the cutout doesn't butt right up against pixels that are a different colour. It's fundamental to how bilinear filtering works, rather than bad programming.

Quote from Snoop.DriftEra :

5. Add: Ctrl/Shift+RMB values insertion everywhere where values exist including colours.

You can't really just say "do it everywhere". I can't take a few days out from development to examine thousands of buttons to find out which ones don't work as expected. More helpful is specific examples of buttons you find which don't work as expected.

Quote from Snoop.DriftEra :

11. Add: Break from SUBs to SUBs.

Since Editor Test Patch D8, you can now break off triangles from a subobject into a new subobject
> LFS Modeller Suggestions / VladM: https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1990727#post1990727

I hope to be implemented :
-Choose Spare tyre position on the R value (left/right)
-Allow or prevent a second or a third passenger in rear seat
-Choose Back seat Position (left/right) (helps if it has 1 passenger)

Quote from Scawen :

It may be confusing for you, but try to imagine how confusing it is for me, dealing with suggestions all over the place.

I'm surprised you keep control over other threads all over the forum.
Also I understand the amount of info comes through your head. I'm just doing one mod for many years and my brain blows up when I try to sort things out in my paper notepad while working on it. I can only imagine what it's like to be You.

Quote :

Most of your points are really about the modeller, so would be better placed in the other thread.

I'm sorry I perceive Modeller and Editor as a one solid thing (LFSE). I posted in wrong thread twice, I think now I will transfer my post again to the correct thread, sorry for that.

Quote :

Redo is quite a lot more difficult from a programming point of view, as the editor wasn't designed in such a way to support that from the outset.

Ok, we can live with it. Just wanted to point it out.

Quote :

I don't think this is a bug, if you are talking about the blending from nearby pixels. It's more the atrist's responsibility to ensure that the cutout doesn't butt right up against pixels that are a different colour. It's fundamental to how bilinear filtering works, rather than bad programming.

No. This is a different issue. I'll update my post with evidence in another thread. In a few words: the leftmost mapping pixel is taken from the rightmost pixel of the page.

Quote :

I can't take a few days out from development to examine thousands of buttons to find out which ones don't work as expected. More helpful is specific examples of buttons you find which don't work as expected.

Will update post with examples.

Quote :

Since Editor Test Patch D8, you can now break off triangles from a subobject into a new subobject
> LFS Modeller Suggestions / VladM: https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1990727#post1990727

Wow great! thanx!!!!!

P.S.
Thank you for taking time and provided us with links for correct threads.

Quote from Scawen :

It would be interesting to know how many mods it wants to clean up for you (it offers a button "Delete X of Y mods") and how much the folder size is reduced if you use the function.

Unfortunately I did not check the size of the folder before using the clean function.
Anyway leaving default settings, I mean the two flagged checkboxes, it cleaned 729 of 1454 saved mods.
The vast majority of them comes from that Test free drive server at Westhill where many people try many mods.. so the folder is very crowded
Removing also the mods that are never seen on replays would be nice to have.. yeah, but.. I think it is better instead to just "advertise" the clean function exposing the mods number and mods disk space used, maybe even inside the button "Clean":
< Clean 1454 mods | 10.5 GB >
While trying different servers, as I did, I am too amazed by how many mods "I" downloaded without even trying them once, so that mods folder may grow a lot without the user noticing it.
In my case, having good internet connection, the downloads were always very fast (FFTH, Italy - Rome) so I did not feel they were somewhat heavy.

Thanks for the feedback. I'd like the replay thing (eventually) but of course that would only save more mods from being deleted. I know there are a lot more that could be deleted. Maybe we need a small info file in each mod's folder like the last time that mod was used (and maybe some other data, such as "used by local player" if that might decide anything). Then mods could be deleted by date last used (e.g. 1 year ago). Currently we only have the mod folder's creation date but it could be an often used but rarely updated mod.

Is it possible to have a sound editor in the engine editor?

It's possible to load waves and eng files, but there's no way to test that sound without an export.
Would it be possible to add the shift+A settings, some sliders/buttons for throttle/rpm, engine load/clutch and maybe gear?

It will be awesome, if we can have different rims front and back.

https://www.thedashcamstore.com/content/2017-Ford-F450-BlackVue-DR750S-2CH-Truck/thedashcamstore.com-blackvue-dr750s-2ch-truck-installed-ford-f450-1.jpg

Perfect for trucks and buses, even with some low tris limits
Can be as added as a future in next updates, pleaseee?

Quote from ivo_drifta :

It will be awesome, if we can have different rims front and back.

https://www.thedashcamstore.com/content/2017-Ford-F450-BlackVue-DR750S-2CH-Truck/thedashcamstore.com-blackvue-dr750s-2ch-truck-installed-ford-f450-1.jpg

Perfect for trucks and buses, even with some low tris limits
Can be as added as a future in next updates, pleaseee?

I know one McLaren F1 around that needs it sooooooooo much)))))))

We have discussed this on discord many times; why is there no separate upper limit to the number of triangles in LOD2 when it comes to the editor? It's a real fps drainer when people join the track with an LOD2 that has 10s of thousands of triangles. Sometimes the game will even freeze for a split second because of cars like that joining the track (i have a high end pc). There are way too many mods like that out there.

I realize it can become a problem of backwards compatibility in implementing a limit now, but i think it's necessary and better done sooner rather than later.

That sounds as if it should be easy enough to implement, but I wonder what that limit should be?

Quote from Scawen :

That sounds as if it should be easy enough to implement, but I wonder what that limit should be?

I can only speak about my experience from the cars i've created. I am 99% sure you will never need anything more than 10000 triangles for a high quality LOD2.

Here are some LOD2 examples of my mods:






As you can see you can create shapes that are complex enough with less than 10000 triangles. Honestly these can all be optimized further to below 5000 without losing shadow quality and any kind of quality when looking at the car from a distance.

I expect it will present an issue for people that buy their models or don't know how to use a modeller to decimate, but it's a price worth paying for a stable sim in my opinion.

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/102659-Mod-approval-checklist
''LOD2 should have a reasonably low number of triangles while keeping the overall car shape (around 1000 is usually more than enough)''

I think 8 000 - 10 000 tris for LOD2 should be good.
Less than that may can cause problems,
because for example my mod - FEND BR have 4 different configurations
1: stock/roof
2: offroad/roof+winch+roof rack+snorkel and other stuff.
3: open cab - without roof
4: open cab - without roof and the doors are off

All these details needs shadow and have to be visible from long distance.
In my case main body+all details are ~7 400 tris in LOD2 only.

Quote from ivo_drifta :

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/102659-Mod-approval-checklist
''LOD2 should have a reasonably low number of triangles while keeping the overall car shape (around 1000 is usually more than enough)''

I think 8 000 - 10 000 tris for LOD2 should be good.
Less than that may can cause problems,
because for example my mod - FEND BR have 4 different configurations
1: stock/roof
2: offroad/roof+winch+roof rack+snorkel and other stuff.
3: open cab - without roof
4: open cab - without roof and the doors are off

All these details needs shadow and have to be visible from long distance.
In my case main body+all details are ~7 400 tris in LOD2 only.

I haven't tested configurations in LOD2, but at least in LOD1 they do not add up when it comes to the triangle counter. Each config has its own number of tris. So for example if your base car has 40k, then you can have 2 configs that both add 20k, even though the limit is 63k.

I've had a look in the code and confirm it's easy to set a limit for LOD2 when exporting.

Do you know of any examples of mods that caused a bad glitch on loading? I'd like to see if there are any issues other than high number of triangles in LOD1.

For example maybe the exporter should run "compress groups" on the model before saving. I'm not sure if it is well known but a high number of smoothing groups makes the model take longer to set up when the car is loaded.

I haven't heard of any negative side effects of compress groups, so do let me know if there are any issues with it.

Not off the top of my head sadly - the ones i remember caused issues seem to have been deleted. I'll do some research and see if i can find some examples.

No worries, please don't spend much time looking.

I've currently set a limit of 8192 for the points and triangles of LOD2. Even this seems seems very high to me, really. LOD2 should be in the hundreds rather than thousands.

I'll test if compress groups can be done at the time of export without any delays. I don't think it's a long function though.

Quote from Scawen :

Do you know of any examples of mods that caused a bad glitch on loading?

I recall this one having quite an impact when someone joins: https://www.lfs.net/files/vehmods/8A8457

Quote from Eclipsed :

I recall this one having quite an impact when someone joins: https://www.lfs.net/files/vehmods/8A8457

I have to say that as it was our first mod, it have too much things to optimice and lod 2 on this one have 27k of tris maybe yes, it could be the problem...
Btw, im working on this one and it Will be updated soon

I've put the new limits in Editor D26. For LOD2 it is maximum 8192 triangles / 12288 vertices.

To help with this, for people who want to work down from a high poly model, I've added a crude "reduce detail" function that acts on the selected triangles.

I suggest using CTRL+SHIFT+LMB to flood-select groups of triangles, then click "reduce detail" (or SHIFT+R) on the small groups. Inspect them each time and undo if the effect isn't good enough.

Automatic LOD reduction is a challenging problem so this crude version is about all I can do for now. I'd like to know if anyone finds it useful.

Groups are also compressed when exporting for test or upload.

Editor D26: https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/102626

Quote from Scawen :

No worries, please don't spend much time looking.

I've currently set a limit of 8192 for the points and triangles of LOD2. Even this seems seems very high to me, really. LOD2 should be in the hundreds rather than thousands.

I'll test if compress groups can be done at the time of export without any delays. I don't think it's a long function though.

Yes, my estimation was conservative. I try to keep it between 500 and 3000 depending on the complexity of the vehicle.

I tried sitting on a populated server and looking for mods that cause big drops, but i couldn't find ones that i could definitively say cause problems. Tried out the reduce detail function and it's very handy. Thank you!

In any case i have a hunch this update will improve things a lot. Thank you for the quick update!

In special draw mode, the masses objects could be selectable so we could adjust their X/Y/Z position by clicking a point on them and dragging the axes, just like with points in modeller or tube points.

a few more suggestions from me, if possible:

spring preload independent of ride height.
(helper springs would be nice but I don't imagine that's possible right now.)

bump rubber length and or stiffness

offset upright lengths or independent upright heights for top/bottom.

trailing arm front suspension.

option for even laggier turbochargers

bump steer could potentially be added as a degrees per meter of suspension travel.

ackermann curve (ackerman curve could be calculated then run as a non linear curve based on a 0-1 slider)

cars with adjustable trail


thanks!