Any chance of getting Live Delta in LFS? Something like LFSLazy cuz its not really working anymore.
Hi Viper. Can you describe exactly how it works / where it should be displayed, whatever I'd need to know. If it's not too hard then I can consider it.
Hello our lord,Scawen.
I was thinking of what Mandula was describing in his post (https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/2013145#post2013145), but will try to describe it:
I was thinking of what Mandula was describing in his post (https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/2013145#post2013145), but will try to describe it:
- how it works: see the livestream of Mandula (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riOnLRULzR4&t=5429s), in which at the top you can see two red/green deltas (SPEED DIFF/ TIME DIFF), one for speed (could be useful too), one for time difference. Basically, a realtime +/- delta time shown, which compares current rolling time to a past personal best lap at the same spatial point on the same car/track combo. That way, a slightly earlier braking point or a much wider-than-optimal turn taken (compared to the PB lap) would instantly show up on the delta (it would go from for example -0.080 to +0.110, preferably from green to red font). If a lap finishes with a better laptime than that previous PB lap (so delta is in -negative when crossing finish line), now that lap is saved and becomes the comparison reference in the next lap. I am not sure about the programming side of things but I guess somehow saving the driven path with a time value for each spatial point on the track, then while driving comparing these points would work. And if a better lap is driven, this PB path/time "object" is overwritten. This could be saved locally somehow (at least that is how Lazy does it), so if there are two races on FBM/SO4R on two different days, on the second race it is already comparing to the previous known PB lap. Could be integrated into LFSW too, since it already tracks online PB times. Not sure if it could be easily integrated.
- where it should be displayed: I think once there is a reference PB lap to compare to, should appear in the top right corner under the split time.
@Viperakecske
Should this delta be displayed in real-time, or is it enough if it is only shown per sector, like 3 times per lap, depending on how many sectors a particular track have?
If you want it in real-time this is in my opinion much bigger programming challenge then to just implement delta calculations for each sector, because LFS already has that and it needs only a small feature upgrade.
Our Airio can also show you the time for each sector and the delta is just the difference between that value and some reference value. If you want the simple version, then I propose that Scawen make some way of selecting what will be the reference value and display the delta somewhere. One can choose the ref between his PBs or else's or WR or current fastest player's sectors.
Should this delta be displayed in real-time, or is it enough if it is only shown per sector, like 3 times per lap, depending on how many sectors a particular track have?
If you want it in real-time this is in my opinion much bigger programming challenge then to just implement delta calculations for each sector, because LFS already has that and it needs only a small feature upgrade.
Our Airio can also show you the time for each sector and the delta is just the difference between that value and some reference value. If you want the simple version, then I propose that Scawen make some way of selecting what will be the reference value and display the delta somewhere. One can choose the ref between his PBs or else's or WR or current fastest player's sectors.
Hello Rane.
Yes should be displayed in real time,not just 2-4 times / lap
Lfslazy had that feature that it shows in real time.
Yes should be displayed in real time,not just 2-4 times / lap
Lfslazy had that feature that it shows in real time.
Yes, I see. Well, I think it is a nice feature, most racing sims have some form of it.
Let's see what Scawen has to say. I'm sure he will find some way to implement it quickly. However, it is far from a trivial programing task which may introduce further delays with other updates
Let's see what Scawen has to say. I'm sure he will find some way to implement it quickly. However, it is far from a trivial programing task which may introduce further delays with other updates
I see, that is a very clever and useful feature. It looks like Daniel did a great job with it. I wish a version of Lazy was available, without the "hack" stuff (that needed to be updated with each version version of LFS) and only the InSim features (that usually remain compatible when LFS updates).
To track the lap and store it in a new data format, do the comparisons and save and load that data at the right times, it's a pretty complicated task. It's good that I have looked at it, I should have another read of Mandula's very good post. It needs time to sink in though.
I can see how such a feature would be good (and most useful) to support natively, but also could make the point that this is the reason for InSim, so other programmers can do this stuff so I can focus on the core.
To track the lap and store it in a new data format, do the comparisons and save and load that data at the right times, it's a pretty complicated task. It's good that I have looked at it, I should have another read of Mandula's very good post. It needs time to sink in though.
I can see how such a feature would be good (and most useful) to support natively, but also could make the point that this is the reason for InSim, so other programmers can do this stuff so I can focus on the core.
even more spin off
If I could propose yet another addition, this time "static" one.
LFS Lazy has a choice to set up checkpoint text to custom one. It not only shows split time, but also sector time (apart from first checkpoint). It also takes less space on screen, because there is no default text "split time/lap time".
LFS Lazy has a choice to set up checkpoint text to custom one. It not only shows split time, but also sector time (apart from first checkpoint). It also takes less space on screen, because there is no default text "split time/lap time".
Since the discussion is already started, i am also for this feature to be eventually included in the game, as external programs not always work, they can crash, can be complicated to connect with LFS... i had different sorts of issues with them i can't or don't want to keep solving - it would be more user friendly for sure.
The delta is something that helped me improve and keep track of where i make mistakes and also how (in)consistent i am. The position of the feature could be adjustable, similar to track map position. Any side or centre could be individual, i prefer it centered, because that's what i got used to in iRacing and also with LFSLazy.
Here is the iRacing version for illustration too:
https://youtu.be/yZ-wG1U1p8k?t=86
Hope this can see the light of the day someday in the future update.
The delta is something that helped me improve and keep track of where i make mistakes and also how (in)consistent i am. The position of the feature could be adjustable, similar to track map position. Any side or centre could be individual, i prefer it centered, because that's what i got used to in iRacing and also with LFSLazy.
Here is the iRacing version for illustration too:
https://youtu.be/yZ-wG1U1p8k?t=86
Hope this can see the light of the day someday in the future update.
Detect & Monitor from @kingofice does also have this feature. But it also shows how Lazy was great at that. Lazy was able to detect layout or even multiple layouts.
I do understand that it would time consuming to natively add.
Currently the issue is some people me included (depending on the race) might stick to an older version to have lazy or detect working.And that's bad for test patch testing and feedback.
I do understand that it would time consuming to natively add.
Currently the issue is some people me included (depending on the race) might stick to an older version to have lazy or detect working.And that's bad for test patch testing and feedback.
More important to racing than just the delta bar is also just the "relatives" box in iRacing, which shows you the time gap between the cars near you.
I agree, very useful feature. Once delta is implemented, a relative timing is a small upgrade which should be somewhat easier to add later on.
Personally I find relative timing to be more valuable for racing. I always have my relative open in iRacing where my delta bar I only ever open if I'm comparing myself against someone else's lap to try to find places I can improve.
Right, Lazy has a feature similar to the iRacing's relative called Position list. It shows real time differences to 4 cars ahead and behind (options to configure: shows opponents based on their position on track or based on their position in race). I tend to look at it very frequently to know if I am gaining or losing time. It's live unlike LFS native feature (so not only on sectors) and text is bigger because of smaller data. I use it on the track positions mode so I also see if there is blue flagged car in front of me. It only works on standard tracks because of some limits I guess. You can move it freely.
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/63817
Let's not forgot about this addon, got some nice features. One of those features is a panel that show how much behind or ahead of someone even if you get lapped, great for multiclass races
Let's not forgot about this addon, got some nice features. One of those features is a panel that show how much behind or ahead of someone even if you get lapped, great for multiclass races
For some reason AONIO messed up my controls and stuff...
I would also be happy for this to be included in the main game, been using lazy and d&m now a lot.
if it's implemented, i feel like being able to turn individual gadgets on/off and freely positioning them is a must.
Also one Lazy feature that nobody mentioned yet is having split and sector delta to the WR, i find this very useful for hotlapping.
if it's implemented, i feel like being able to turn individual gadgets on/off and freely positioning them is a must.
Also one Lazy feature that nobody mentioned yet is having split and sector delta to the WR, i find this very useful for hotlapping.
I believe you need to disable something in the cfg file
First thing I'd like to say is that, I agree, it would be great if LFS would store locally obvious things like PB and splits for any vehicle and track combination, and these recordings of your best lap so it can show live delta, and these other live statistics for racing (relative to other drivers, in better detail than the existing native system).
Second thing I have to say is that I can see quite a lot of complication with it and the various options these systems would need. At the moment I'm trying to finish an incompatible version, to then get the new tyre physics into a releasable state so we can finally release the new version. So I really can't take it on in the near future.
I'm wondering if any other programmers could do these, and if anything needs to be added to InSim to enable it. I know we have programmers with the skills to do it and probably the interest too, but programming is time consuming and programmers may be busy on other projects and work, so aren't ready to take up such a task. But in case anyone does want to at some time, before I can support it natively, I wonder what needs to be added to InSim. I know that LFS Lazy uses a combination of InSim and direct memory access but it would be very good if the direct access could be avoided. So if any programmers know what's currently missing from InSim and could enable such excellent features as seen in LFS Lazy, please let me know.
Second thing I have to say is that I can see quite a lot of complication with it and the various options these systems would need. At the moment I'm trying to finish an incompatible version, to then get the new tyre physics into a releasable state so we can finally release the new version. So I really can't take it on in the near future.
I'm wondering if any other programmers could do these, and if anything needs to be added to InSim to enable it. I know we have programmers with the skills to do it and probably the interest too, but programming is time consuming and programmers may be busy on other projects and work, so aren't ready to take up such a task. But in case anyone does want to at some time, before I can support it natively, I wonder what needs to be added to InSim. I know that LFS Lazy uses a combination of InSim and direct memory access but it would be very good if the direct access could be avoided. So if any programmers know what's currently missing from InSim and could enable such excellent features as seen in LFS Lazy, please let me know.
One thing that comes to my mind is to enable access to race line coordinates via inSim, if there is one available, it may be useful for calculations of time delta. Or access to other players' x,y,z car coordinates and vx, vy, vz velocities.
I realise that some kind of path related measurement could be helpful, but there aren't any paths for custom layouts. I wondered if the simple "distance traveled since passing finish line" would be a good enough measurement for live delta. Of course, every lap driven isn't exactly the same length but I suppose it doesn't vary much as you home in on the best line.
Yeah, this feature will be good enough if it has at least 0.1s precision, which I think will suffice if we have at least some approximate path coordinates available or other players' data - you may add a new packet for it.
Having done it in Detect&Monitor, the only tricks needed are the nodes lines.
So no problems for officials tracks !
For layouts, the best thing would be to be able to insert node lines (to have live deltas in Detect&Monitor and/or in my broadcast/stream application, I have insim circles added to the layout track or perform 3d distance calculations – this being rather consuming and not very precise, even random...).
So no problems for officials tracks !
For layouts, the best thing would be to be able to insert node lines (to have live deltas in Detect&Monitor and/or in my broadcast/stream application, I have insim circles added to the layout track or perform 3d distance calculations – this being rather consuming and not very precise, even random...).
Any updates on this ? Would be very useful in a racing game
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Spinoff : Live delta request
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