Just a quick comment on something Fonnybone mentioned. Consistency. It's important, especially in long races. In endu, ATC GPs etc instead of thinking "oh f*** there are faster ppl than me so I gotta drive every lap flatout" I try to settle into a rhythm as soon as possible. It allows me to relax a bit instead of being on the absolute edge the entire race. In the long run it means I make less mistakes, finish the race with minimal damage and delays and enjoy it. Of course there are crunch times when you do need to push as hard as you can, but not necessarily the entire race.

Also, in relation to that, not pushing the max every single lap is easier on the tyres. Being smooth and not sliding about excessively can make or break a race. With RWDs once you start oversteering in corners and overheating your tyres, it's not going to get any easier so it's best to avoid that situation. It's easier to drive with slightly cool tyres than ones that have overheated quite a lot (possibly with few combo specific exceptions where overheated R2s are faster in short races than cooler R3s).

My main tip, apart from Vain's very wise tip regarding how to follow drivers you are unfamiliar with, would be to know when the car behind is close enough to pass you. NEVER compromise your line to defend into a corner if the car behind isn't really close enough to pass you anyway. Once you start defending vigorously into every corner, you'll never get away from a decent driver, and it's only a matter of time until he passes you. Only defend when the need truly arises.

But, when the need to defend does arise, really defend! Passing is easy if the driver in front makes no real effort to stop you. Make it hard for them! Too many drivers in LFS will simply take their usual line whilst you sail up the inside unopposed. If they are close enough to pass, try to make them take the outside line. If they insist on taking the inside line, even after you have moved over to cover it, make them stay as close to the white line as possible, for as long as possible. Move back to the correct racing line at the last moment - they'll have to brake earlier because their approach angle to the corner means the turn is much sharper for them, you'll be able to brake later and even if they hug the inside, you'll probably still be ahead anyway and the outside line will mean you can exit with much more speed.

The harder you can make it for someone passing you, the slower they will be out of the corner. So even if you do get passed, you have a good chance of being able to pass them back into the next corner.

T1 - works best in a car with brake lights, at the "full speed" braking point, put your foot on the brake LIGHTLY, people will see you start to slow down and will break harder, and shouldn't run into the back of you, plus you can control the car better and slide into the order without being tagged

Some obvious ones...

Fake a move to the inside and outbrake round the outside (if your brave)

Turn 1, most cars will try and go for the inside line, if your lucky you can outbrake 5-10 cars on the outside and cut in. I had an old replay where i started 23rd and ended up in 2nd place after t1 because i went round the outside and someone had spun on the inside line.

On tracks where overtaking is hard run low downforce and pick people off on the straights. Then hug the inside lines, good on fern bay or south city.

Look several cars ahead, never focus on the back of the car right infront of you. I gain lots of places early on by spotting gaps and spun cars early and being able to react and find the best way past.


all i can think of for now

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

Some obvious ones...

Fake a move to the inside and outbrake round the outside (if your brave)

My favorite move... Get them where they least expect it... Also a nice one is when you just KNOW they expect a switchback and hug the inside line, and you just go around the outside and get alongside them.

Quote :

Turn 1, most cars will try and go for the inside line, if your lucky you can outbrake 5-10 cars on the outside and cut in. I had an old replay where i started 23rd and ended up in 2nd place after t1 because i went round the outside and someone had spun on the inside line.

I like to do that as well, depending on my position after the first 200 yards... If I find myself incredibly well positioned for an inside divebomb without risk I'll go for that, otherwise I'll just go around them all.

Quote :

On tracks where overtaking is hard run low downforce and pick people off on the straights. Then hug the inside lines, good on fern bay or south city.

This won't work too often... But is good on short races... If you wanna hug the inside with low downforce people will notice you being slow and perform the first 2 tips on you.

Quote :

Look several cars ahead, never focus on the back of the car right infront of you. I gain lots of places early on by spotting gaps and spun cars early and being able to react and find the best way past.

In addition to that, when you're the rear car in a multicar draft, don't follow the car in front of you when he makes the pass... Just floor it when he gets out and draft the front car, you'll pick up more speed in shorter time and slingshot passed both of them (especially on BL1 is a perfect way to take 2 positions in less than 5 seconds).

Quote :

all i can think of for now

Well, I can think of one other tip that's been mentioned a lot before, but is vitally important... Patience is the key. ALWAYS wait for your chance and give up an attempt when you're not 100% absolutely sure you are going to pull it off. Except of course in the final turn of the final lap, you're going to have to make that one absolutely stunning move to take the car in front of you and receive all the cheers and fame that come with being victorious. Either that, or end up in the hospital, but nobody can ever say you didn't try.

That reminds me of one rule:
Never (blindly) follow the car in front of you. Always use your usual line. Never focus on the car in front of you, focus on your line and your racing. Once you start looking at the car in front of you you can't focus on the track anymore and will be likely to make errors (like braking a bit too late and bumping the one in front of you, or hitting an evil curb).

Oh, and practice fighting. I sometimes slow down just to have a battle with someone. Where's the fun in leading a 1st place home from T1 on when you can also practice door-to-door fighting with the guy in 2nd?

Vain

Quote from Vain :

That reminds me of one rule:
Never (blindly) follow the car in front of you. Always use your usual line. Never focus on the car in front of you, focus on your line and your racing. Once you start looking at the car in front of you you can't focus on the track anymore and will be likely to make errors (like braking a bit too late and bumping the one in front of you, or hitting an evil curb).

Oh, and practice fighting. I sometimes slow down just to have a battle with someone. Where's the fun in leading a 1st place home from T1 on when you can also practice door-to-door fighting with the guy in 2nd?

Vain

Indeed, practice is what its all about.

If I'm on a server where I am winning a lot of the races, I will sometimes purposely finish dead last so that in the next race and even subsequent ones I have to fight my way through the pack. Great fun to be had.

Quote from TagForce :

In addition to that, when you're the rear car in a multicar draft, don't follow the car in front of you when he makes the pass... Just floor it when he gets out and draft the front car, you'll pick up more speed in shorter time and slingshot passed both of them (especially on BL1 is a perfect way to take 2 positions in less than 5 seconds)

did this the other day, although my advice is that once you get right behind the other person, overtake the same way the other person did, time it right, and you draft someone going a bit faster, and that slingshots you past VERY fast, although i got in the middle and got crushed last time i tried it!

Some very good tips in this thread.

One of my personal favorites: If you're in a slow car on a track with long straights and someone is about to draft and pass you on one of those straights, lift a little at the beginning of the straight. The driver behind you will close up faster than he expected and will be forced to make a quick choice: a) lift himself or b) go for the pass.

At this point most people will go for the pass, because it's difficult to match the speed of the car in front without losing too much ground. This means he's passing you before he could draft you, so the slingshot effect is missing and by the time he's in front of you, you will have made up most of the difference in speed, which puts you in a perfect position to draft and repass him towards the end of the straight.

In short: If you're going to get passed anyway, force your opponent to do it early on so you're the one who gets to take advantage of the draft when the speeds are higher.

Quote from Jakg :

did this the other day, although my advice is that once you get right behind the other person, overtake the same way the other person did, time it right, and you draft someone going a bit faster, and that slingshots you past VERY fast, although i got in the middle and got crushed last time i tried it!

Ahhh, yes, when you have the opportunity to get behind the other drafter in time, do that. If not (because you will be going faster and are going to clip his rear quarterpanel) just go around the other side, or in between if there's room. Best example of this will always be the Hakkinen overtaking manouvre on Schumacher in Spa...

The "you're in the middle 3-wide" passes are the most gratifying, though, especially when you're 3 wide for what seems like forever.

Something that people need to bear in mind is don't pussy foot about when trying to overtake. Make your move aggressive and hard, that's the best way to avoid contact. If you come steaming up the inside then the other driver will see you. If you just take it easy contact will happen when you both meet at the apex. It's something Martin Brundle even mentioned in the commentary last F1 race.

If someone defends the inside line what you can try do is hold your own and take the outside line. Squeeze them so they have the narrowest line into the next corner. Make sure you slow down enough that you will be able to get under them through the corner. This will only usually work if the person you are squeezing actually out brakes himself a bit running wide.

A fairly good textbook defensive move if you're trying to hold someone behind you who is quicker is to make sure you slow the car right down on the apex enough to give you a good run out of the corner. This way the chances are the driver behind is not going to get a chance into the next corner as you will be on the power first.

some techniques only work on really really good drivers... with everyone else they cause accidents :P.

the last turn on astion national is sometimes very tricky. sometimes its hard to decide how much to attack or defend without causing an accident. i never really try to pass there. maybe at corner exit but not during that corner unless the guy makes a huge mistake.

Great Thread this 1

My only tip would be keep your awareness up when close racing,

sometimes I will keep repeatedly pressing the look left or right buttons on the wheel and avoid a side or rear impact just by seeing it in good time to avoid.
Like in Keiran's post above if you come in hot and agreesive inside me I will give you room and hope for the switchback when you overshoot the apex ,
but seriously I try to be aware of any cars within 4 or 5 car lenghts behind and infront and constantly gauge where they are going , in order to pounce on their mistakes and get the oportunist pass or make that defencive move .

SD.
EDIT: Gabicks : yeah I wont usually try a pass into a chicain

DON'T try running 2 wide through the bl1 chicane! if your faster, well done, but if you try and pass then it won't work (maybe in the xfg or uf1 because they're slow and can take kerbs), you'll just hit the kerbs, hang back and slingshot past them, it is SO annoying to have a bad exit at T1 (ie wrong gear), go level at the middle of the chicane and either force you off the road trying to keep on track or hit the kerb and fly into you!

Going through any chicane side-by-side in LFS can be done if you both play it nice and fair. Maybe the expression "you can leave room but not give room" defines my racing strategy best. Usually on the straight i try to force others to take the hardest way to pass me, while I try to get myself the best exit for the bext corner. But swerving back and forth in front of someone is just painful and totally disrespectful

Quote from 96 GTS :

The classic repassing maneuver. If a car is outbraking you down the inside, don't panic, hold your line, and continue to brake smoothly. Wait until their rear bumper is past your front bumper, then turn in. Chances are they'll run wide of the corner from outbraking you, and you'll have the inside line from the apex of the corner to the exit, and get a faster line through the corner. 9 times out of 10 you'll end up repassing them. This works especially well at the end of the blackwood main straight, although it works for just about any bend that you actually have to brake for.

if you already know hell try to outbrake you you can push him even more towards the inside once hes got nowhere else to go
granted its a bit dangerous to do as its hard to tell when hes at the point where he cant do a switchback and take the outside anymore but is still able to see you well on his monitor

and for the passing driver if the next corner goes the same direction dont go all out on the first one and dont let the driver on the outside claim the apex on the first one ie keep him on the outside so you have control of when and how he enters the second corner
if your fully alongside the to be passed driver or slightly ahead at the exit chances are youll have him overtaken past the second
works best at bl sector 2

Anyone else for the thread starter to put these all these wonderful suggestions in the first post of this thread in a clear and concise format?

The exception to the rule about T1 divebombing has to be Blackwood, if you can get up the inside and brake early enough hugging the inside you can often make several places up safely. It also removes you from risk from late braking fools who often take out several cars on the conventional line. Having said that only do it if you know what your doing, if you get it wrong and outbrake yourself you can take out half the field.

actually... the gran turismo 4 manual applies well to lfs it has a section with Skip Barber Racing School driving tips.

its a very simple read on how to go fast. the goal being to slowdown as quickly as possible before the corner and then to get on the gas as soon as possible with as little steering as possible at corner exit. it also goes through some passing techniques.


here's a good link
http://www.miata.net/sport/Physics/

Offtopic @ Gabkicks.

Vain

how am i offtopic?

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

Anyone else for the thread starter to put these all these wonderful suggestions in the first post of this thread in a clear and concise format?

Maybe I'll do that but not right now. Ofcourse I'm a bit worried about misinterpreting what people have wrote. If you promise no flaming?

Quote from SparkyDave :

My only tip would be keep your awareness up when close racing,

sometimes I will keep repeatedly pressing the look left or right buttons on the wheel and avoid a side or rear impact just by seeing it in good time to avoid.

I use pitspotter religiously AND I use the left/right look buttons. Learn to use these and use them often. Learn to be quick to grasp all information you need from looking. Set the look for "instant". No longer do I "click... look... unclick". It is now "clickunclick" as fast as I can. You eventually get to where all info you gain from looking to see where your opponent is, if he is gaining or loosing to you, etc in the split second you see you're "look" by hitting the button onoff, that quick.

As said earlier, never watch the car in front of you. Always look up ahead on the track. You should never be looking in the area of the turn you are currently in. You should be looking through the following turn and as far ahead as you can. Your car/driving will go where you look, so look where you want to be and not where you are at. In motorcycling (and I always use this example here in threads like this), if you are heading towards a pothole, stick, dead raccoon, whatever, you do NOT want to be looking at that object to avoid it. If you look at the dead slimey raccoon wanting not to hit it, chances are you WILL hit it. You want to look at your escape point as you will unconciencely (is that a word? or spelled right?) drive to where you are looking rather than where you want to go. Always look ahead to where you want to be. Look up to the following straight where you want to be at exit rather than the apex as you enter into it.

When you start to look ahead on the track, you drive more relaxed. You don't concentrate on hitting that apex perfect because you will hit the apex perfect because where you want to be at is what you are focused on, not the apex right in front of you.

a technique that stirling moss used for real:

if a car was behind him and trying hard for a pass, he would sometimes let them by.
the reason being: he would then pressure that driver into making a mistake or overdriving and killing his tyres.

Know your opponents
Before you join a race, spectate a while to find out how good the other drivers are. If someone is a reckless driver or a complete noob, you know you should pass him carefully. If someone is clearly faster than you, and by a twist of fate you end up in front of him, then it may be wise not to block him and ruin his race.

Know your own goals
You don't always enter a race to win. Choose the strategy that will give you the most fun.
If you want to improve your lap times, get behind a faster driver and try to follow him for a while.
If you want to improve your overtaking skills, let the pack pass and then step on the gas.
If you want close racing, lift the throttle until someone of similar skill comes near.