I don't have a strong opinion for or against reverse engineering on LFS code. But I just want to make a point for the sake of having a reasoned discussion.
As far as I understand, having free reverse engineering helps developers of third-party software to help players. Tweak and LFS Lazy are just the most famous of them. As far as I understand these programs are not forbidden and they are not cheats (if tweek is used on specialized servers) There can be many such programs, by analogy with Asseta Corsa where there are third-party applications for things that the developers did not provide. But there are special conditions for such applications.
For example in IRacing in nascar series some players use additional program that in interface makes visualization of cars from sides, that helps in the race with a small fov. Usually it is more convenient than mirrors, or voice bot-spotter or look sideways on the button. In LFS Lazy we have something similar. I think its good that being able to do something similar in LFS by reverse engineering.
Nope, just have a differing opinion is all. Fair enough if you don't agree with me and fair enough if I don't agree with you, but it's not trolling. Reverse engineering a small application to get it working on current versions of an indie game harms no one, I just think it's beneficial to the community as a whole to be able to use Lazy.
An overall reflection on these questions seems essential and it is important not to confuse means and ends. It is interesting in this respect to consider what the law says.
Reverse engineering is just an analysis technique. But its uses are strictly regulated. Beyond what the author of a computer program authorizes, the law indirectly protects the users of this computer program.
For example, current EU law (which at the time concerned the UK) states that reverse engineering: "...may not be used in a way that harms the legitimate interests of the rights holder (for developers) or which conflicts with the normal operation of the program (for users)".
So, the question is what is "the normal operation of the program". And also if the fairness between ordinary users (who want to use the program for what it is and as they buy it) and the initiates (those who know about tricks, cheats and third-party programs and/or use reverse engineering to play) is well respected ?
I know, that some here consider that what the LFS program allows (including with its flaws) is authorized (for cheating). That's not my opinion and it's debatable. But what about unofficial third-party programs that work by reverse engineering? Especially with a multiplayer game?
It's one thing to output values (for damage, temperatures, position of other players in the race, have real-time graphic and video tools etc.) It's another thing to change how "the normal operation of the program".
This is where the reverse engineering process poses a problem. When , and for what purposes, is reverse engineering really essential?
Look what Ilja Jusupov aka x4fab did with Assetto Corsa, with his Content Manager and other things, not without reverse engineering ofcourse (But not without help of .pdb files which included with Assetto Corsa tho).
Reverse engineering would probably bring some awesome developments that we would all like to see with LFS. But the purpose does not justify the means used. Especially if the means used are contrary to the provisions of copyright and the will of the authors.
What Jusupov is doing looks great and it's making him money. I imagine that if Kunos lets him do it, it's because he's acting within the "legal" framework of modding on Assetto Corsa, or at least his work is "tolerated". About LFS, the position of the devs seems clear. So...
AC is also a completed program. It hasn't received any updates in nearly 5 years and there's no signs of anything coming other than a sequel in ~1 year. It also didn't ever have a real competitive online system nor any meaningful attempts to discourage cheating.
Heck, ACC at this point is more or less completed too. It's received its last update recently and all that should be expected is quarterly content dumps to fund AC2 development.
It's true. Doesn't this explain how it is legally possible to appropriate a code for personal gainful use, without an agreement with the authors?
Coming back to LFS, this game has a very special place in the gaming world. It's been part of our lives for so long, it's made us fantasize so much, that we feel like it's belongs to us. And that feeling is even stronger among those who have invested the most in this game. Each of us wants LFS to become the game he dreams of.
But LFS is not an open source game. And I think we would have nothing to gain from it. Beyond the problems this would pose to online gaming, the day authors can no longer live off their creations and protect their codes, there simply won't be any more creations as great as LFS.*
Using reverse engineering for purposes other than code optimization is not a collaborative development mode. It's a violation of the code. Publishing reverse-engineered data (even partial) is against copyright. The insim gateway is a safer way (but in my opinion much too complex) to allow certain evolutions without compromising the durability of the game.
* I'm always fascinated to find that skin authors often (not all) have more demands of respect for their creations (usually copied from existing liveries) than they give to the authors of the game they're modding on
For AC I just don't think Kunos cares. There's no financial losses for the modders nor is there any risk of issues with competitive integrity for races. If anything, lots of people who woul dhave never bought AC are picking it up well after its "use before" date becuase they see TikToks showing AC drifts or other interesting things and want to do it themselves.
There is any version for LFS 0.7D21? Cause i'm having some issues like when i put handbrake on it don't appear and abs light is always on even tho i got it on or off on setup
50 Euro from me if devs make it possible to have similar radar available + pit window features showing estimated laps on current fuel and estimated speed on current gear.
Aaand 100 euros more if you bring back old Westhill. New one is too hard for me to drive...
Aaand I give head for making sausage kerbs dissappear 😂
[quote="DANIEL-CRO;1946520"]Here is new version compatible with patch U.
Note that dashboard wont work with previous patches. My intention was to keep all current gauges compatible. I did most of work, still didn't test gauge divisions (eg speedod.png) and update info text about new resolutions.
All textures can be now two times larger, eg background.png can be 512x512 (old 256x256 still work).
While dashboard editor is open gauges will also be drawn in top left corner of screen. Idea that still sits on my mind for couple of years is to make drag n drop for indicators, gauges, ... but I got many other interesting hobbies now like taking extremely long road trips.
edit: please test this version and report any problems.
I don't know much about it but I have crazy idea. I'm not entirely sure if this will work, but if it is, it's a solution to the problem.
It requires two conditions.
1. If the author of the LFSLazy wants its functionality to be part of the game
2. If the developers want the LFSLazy functionality to be part of the game. (I bet the players clearly want to)
Then the author of LFSLazy puts his code on github or something under free access CC0, or GNU or whichever is better (not sure) And then Scawen can integrate it into the game.
As a result, no one's rights are violated and players have the desired functionality. Everybody's happier, right?
But I'm not sure how it would work on part when code putting it out publicly wouldn't it violate the LFS license? And is there any possibility to pass only those parts that the author of LFSLazy added in the code. And if its not, maybe, only members of the repository can see the code, although it will not be a free license anymore.
In general, it is necessary to transfer the code without violating anyone's rights. Is there a solution to this?
Hello,
Is there a possibility for the creator of LAZY to adapt it to be used as a SimHub dashboard? SimHub works with LFS. Thank you for your response.
Not an easy one, no. Daniel used many forbiden techniques to implement features of lazy, so this is unuseable code for Scawen or anyone else who wants to do it the right way.
That's why I'm writing about this. This is all in my opinion, without any offensive suggestion to the LFS creators. It's solely and exclusively my subjective opinion, as I've been in this game since its inception.
The creator of Lazy did something truly good for this game, and the creator of Airio did something exceptional. These two things should be default in this game. I don't know why the creators focus on useless mods, in my opinion, of course.
Didn't most of us fall in love with this game precisely because of its physics? Graphically, it has always lagged behind top games, that's just another one of my subjective opinions. I believe LFS is closed off to working.
most steering wheels do not support LFS
The steering wheels do not support LFS but support most games
Example
fanatec does not support leds their displays do not work with lfs
does LFs only focus on handlebars from the past decade?
Please don't take this as an attack from me - it's just my opinion, tracking the development of other simulators. For instance, when LFS was created, the creators of ACC were just being born.
Let's compare LFS and ACC today - two different worlds. You really don't have to be a genius, just allow people to create such add-ons and don't block them. After all, not every player needs to use Lazy, not every server host needs to use Airio.
Let's just ask ourselves: who among us today wants to play on a server without Airio? Who is bothered by Lazy? Those who want to use it do, those who don't, aren't obliged. But maybe it's just me wandering
An overall reflection on these questions seems essential and it is important not to confuse means and ends. It is interesting in this respect to consider what the law says.
