I was wondering if anyone has real life experience with single seaters, crossply slicks and camber settings?

On our Reynard we've worked through most of the setup. The cornerweights are within 5 - 10lbs on each corner, the toes are set (about 1mm toe in on each corner) etc...

But we've reached our limits with the camber adjustment. The book values we have on the car state 2.5 at the front, and 3.0 at the rear. It doesn't mention the units, so I don't know if it's degrees or millimeters. It also doesn't state whether that is for radials or crossplys (bias ply to some of you backward people).

If the values given are in degrees, then (for the 3.0) we need ~17mm difference vertical - that strikes me as a lot.
If the values given are in millimeters, then (for the 3.0) we need get 0.5 degrees, which doesn't seem much.

At the rear the car has about 0.5mm, which is less than either of the above possible values. At the front one side is 0.5mm (5 minutes), and the other is currently 5.5mm (1 degree). However, on the side with lots of camber the adjuster is fully screwed in, so we can't get any less easily. I suspect that we have discovered a poorly made set of wishbones on the right front, and the minimum negative camber we can have is 1 degree.

So, back to the point. Should I am to have almost zero static camber, half a degree, or 3 degrees? I know crossplies are less tolerant of camber, but I don't know what the suspension design intended.

If someone (Mr Laidlaw?) has experience with something along these lines then I would be interested to hear what sort of cambers they ran at so that I can compare and make an educated guess on what we should run as a starting setup.

I have very limited experience with single seaters (a few quick goes at form.1st), I think most of us here do, but I would usually expect any values given to be in degrees - all geometry is generally dealt with in degrees.

Personally I always try to dial out toe in/out if at all possible and run 0 degrees, it's a quick fix to handling problems but all it really achieves is to scrub the tyres (they are not running in a straight line), if it is your only way to effect parallel steer then fair enough but otherwise i'd try and run neutral toe if possible. Use it to repair a dodgy setup, rather than inbuild it into the setup.

For fast/long corners effect castor first to fix over/understeer, unless it's a downforce car? (thinking back to those pictures it is isn't it?).

tbh though, all your settings are weather and track dependant, so until you get out there and slam the throttle peddle down tinkering with settings is going to achieve about as much as shouting in the middle of outer space.

Thanks Becky. It is indeed downforced. And if you'd seen where the settings were (cornerweights about 50% out on each axle, toes different side to side, steering column one spline out, camber wildly different, castor actually okay ish) then you'd have come to the conclusion that none of it can actually be 'a good thing'. We're now much closer to the 'standard' settings, which has to be better for learning the car, a track and ourselves, even if it's away from 'optimum' for a particular track/weather/driver.

Just for information, I've just set the front cambers to -1.4 degrees and the rear to -0.6 degrees. This is following information I've found on the net, ten-tenths (though I'm waiting for a reply to a couple of PM's) and a bit of data from Mr Stanniforth Esq.

Tomorrow we've got to recheck the toe settings (we've moved the string to do the camber, and I can't be bothered to set it up again at 11pm ), recheck the cornerweights and that should be that.

Over the winter I'm going to refabricate a new wishbone (if this one proves to be different). Hopefully this car will be a little more predicatable and benign at Brands. A good thing!

I would expect it to be in degrees too. What surprises me however is that you say recommended basic values are more negative camber at the rear than the front, whereas this is mostly opposed to what I've seen generally.

Even in F1, you can often see on pictures the cars are running more camber on front than rear. I do see the point that it could make the car more stable (??) and so maybe a little easier to drive.

String? Maybe I can talk my brother into letting me borrow his lasers from his karting.

"String" tsk tsk... He can afford a Formula car, but doesn't buy the tool kit! ... I wonder what he uses for petrol

Quote from Becky Rose :

I wonder what he uses for petrol

... love...

Not the man of experience in real life, but I've read about this, I think track setup Radicals use between 2 and 3 degrees of negative camber. That's with radial tyres of course though.

Most other values I see are quite similar to this, Caterhams need plenty too, and some FWD rockets use up to 5 or 6 degrees on the front.

However, all these cars are non-downforce. That's bound to change things a little.

Yes, String.

Just as accurate as lasers. Remember, the medium is only as accurate as the person who sets it. I can assure you that string is just as accurate as a laser system if you spend 10 minutes setting it up, it's very very cheap, you can take it with in a pocket, and it works anywhere. Couple it with a few bits of plywood and a spirit level (not a builders one, one with graduations on it) and you can have a perfectly level tracking area anywhere in the world.

People think lasers must be more accurate because they are lasers. But they are only as good if you set them up correctly. I'll stick with string.

Hell, I've even set up cars using string before, and then had it checked with a laser system (the customer wanted to prove lasers were better), and we found that I was absolutely stop on already.

Don't be fooled by lasers and expense equalling a better system. Only a fool would think that. In fact the only advantage with lasers is that you don't have trip wires running across the workshop.

I would suspect the camber to be set in degrees, although 3 degrees does seem a lot for cross ply tires. My Dad's car runs on cross plys and I'm fairly certain it runs a lot less camber than the radial cars.

Quote :

you can take it with in a pocket, and it works anywhere.

Not quite anywhere, you need level ground. The advantage of a laser system is to give you an accurate reading on any surface, and of course they're quick to use when making adjustments.

Having used string many a time myself I wont knock it as a 'system', but a laser system is well worth it

Yes anywhere if you have the plywood I mentioned. You still need level ground (or a plywood levelling system, or an expensive fabricated levelling system) to use the lasers. The only plus of lasers REALLY, as I already mentioned, is the lack of pseudo-tripwires around the car. But people seem to have some misguided theory that a laser must be more accurate :S