I have a suggestion relating to OBJ imports, and how to make external modelling workflows more efficient. The OBJ already come with material mappings per tris, just like LFSE. By making mappings, cutouts and pages persistent trough OBJ imports, and assigning the mappings to tris based on OBJ material names, you could minimize the work you would have to redo inside the editor upon re-importing changes you've made to an external 3D model.

So imagine that when you import an OBJ the first time, it creates mappings based on the list of materials tied to that OBJ file, assigned to the correct tris. And when you import the OBJ a second time it impose the previous mappings onto tris defined by the OBJ materials. That way you can assign the mappings in the external 3D modelling program and not having to redo the mapping assignments, cutouts and page setup each time you re-import the OBJ.

While you currently can merge an SRE into main to recycle some work, the tris have to be assigned a mapping all over again.

Quote from Egor K :

...when camera is selected please show eyes coordinates...

In addition to the previous suggestion, also for the sake of unification, I've combined camera control suggestions in one post, and since in general they are needed when creating a vehicle, decided to post them in Mod System Suggestions section. So:

Rotate view by arrows as "RMB + mouse movement" alternative

in LFS free-floating camera (Shuft+U) control: Ctrl + left/right arrow used to roll; Ctrl + up/down arrow used to adjust height, but rotation (yaw and tilt) is only possible with mouse; in LFS Editor in 3D view same as free-floating camera in LFS; in 2D view Ctrl + arrows used to rotate model. It would be handy to unify controls (LFS and LFS Editor: Vehicle Editor and Modeller):

This will allow you to calibrate yaw and pitch separately and precisely, besides, combined with panning (only arrows) all camera manipulations can be performed using buttons.
BTW now in order to isolate rotation axes and increase accuracy of rotation I'm using Mouse Keys from Windows Ease of Access Center.

Display of camera coordinates and angles (both in LFS&LFSE) and store custom views (already available in LFS)

In LFS Editor:

In LFS free-floating camera
This will allow to compare projections from the same point of view and perspective between LFS/LFSE and other 3D editors so that, having received images, you can instantly switch between them and clearly see the difference in shading, etc.;
or, for example, to demonstrate differences between mod versions like I did in this post, but could not accurately match shots from LFS and renders from Blender. Although this can be done using Custom View, but only approximately:
firstly, coordinates are set not from vehicle origin, but from driver's eyes, which makes precise comparison difficult;
secondly, range is a maximum of 2m width, 3m length and 0.6m height in each direction.
Maybe it would be useful set camera background image in LFS Editor 3D view, position and orientation of which can be obtained from camera matching programs such as fSpy.
Also add slider to set Focal Length (for 36 mm sensor size) or Field Of View and buttons with typical lens focal lengths for fast switching.

Although this is a bug, i didn't find editor bugs report thread. Sorry

The subobject Rotator have an issue with side swap.
I have an indicator stick that is mapped to the indicators signals (-1,0,1)
the vehicle is built as LHD, and the function works properly.
However when subobject set to Full Flip and test swap. the function is wrong in direction
so when u hit indicator Left the stick goes to the right and vise versa.
It works as expected in swap side but it's becomes wrongly placed in a RHD vehicle

I think normally you should use swap side?

For reference, in the UK we have RHD vehicles but indicator stick is to the left of the steering column, I think it's also on the left in LHD cars?

Quote from Scawen :

I think normally you should use swap side?

For reference, in the UK we have RHD vehicles but indicator stick is to the left of the steering column, I think it's also on the left in LHD cars?

Yes. Indicator left, wipers right in LHD

Quote from Scawen :

I think normally you should use swap side?

For reference, in the UK we have RHD vehicles but indicator stick is to the left of the steering column, I think it's also on the left in LHD cars?

Interesting, I didn't think its on the left aswell on RHD, so i guess thats ok now to use as it is for a indicator stick, but may still be wrong for other use

[I'm not talking to myself, just making a better suggestion than my earlier post]

Quote from Scawen :

I think normally you should use swap side?

In fact the intended flip function for this is "with driver - move with driver / no flip"
So the rotation point doesn't need to be in the centre of the steering column.

I'd suggest adding a slider to the top right of the screen (0 (off) to max distance) that fades (alpha) the point representation squares based on relative distance from camera. When working on any mod, not being able to differentiate between what's directly in front and all they way on the other side is what wastes a lot of time at least for me (in P view)

This already exists. Please, do not read.

I was away for some time, but I just saw and tested the new type of movable attachments which are very useful, they make the mods very more detailed and make it more interesting for all the modelers. It makes it interesting for both vehicle and object modeling. This type of improvement makes the game more interesting for all the cruise/race players and I'm thankful.

Back to my suggestion/question: I can't seem to find an object linked to the rim speed and that's what I'm suggesting in this post. Linked to setup configurations: Rim attachments which we can see in older rally vehicles or formula vehicles. (I have attached an example image)

The major question that stays behind this suggestion is the future abuse question: Can the game crash, render a lot slower, or make everyone lag, if there is abuse from this, like a really large 10,000 triangle object that is moving 200 miles an hour and if yes, is there a way to limit this upfront, but still add such an option? Maybe this could be a suboject in the rim editor, so we could use the already existing limits there. Overall my idea is that we could add/remove rim attachments/covers, but after writing all the above, I could see people making 2nd pair of rims on top of their 1st rims. (which I don't see as an issue)

Thanks for reading, appreciate the time. Cheers.

Quote from r3zp3k7 :

I can't seem to find an object linked to the rim speed and that's what I'm suggesting in this post. Linked to setup configurations: Rim attachments which we can see in older rally vehicles or formula vehicles. (I have attached an example image)

Object that attaches to rims and rotates with them is called "Hub object". They count towards 65k limit so you can't make them super detailed if you need them 4

Quote from Drifteris :

Object that attaches to rims and rotates with them is called "Hub object". They count towards 65k limit so you can't make them super detailed if you need them 4

Thanks for that, I'm scratching that suggestion. I didn't know it rotates since its description is "attached to the wheel centre" and nothing about movement is mentioned there. I tested it in 5 minutes and it works, though I can't seem to find the proper way to align it properly to the rim. Any ideas where I can find any documentation about that? Can't seem to find much info on the Wiki website, but since I haven't been around lately, maybe I missed a new manual page or website. (https://en.lfsmanual.net/wiki/LFS_Editor/Modeller/Subobject_Mode)


--- Second suggestion:
Ever since the mod system started, I've been thinking about rotating spoilers. Since this is possible now, my suggestion is for new triggers - acceleration and braking. (since spoiler rotation is most simply based on that and a certain speed). These new triggers could also add potential pedal animations inside the interior. Here is an example gif for the spoiler:

Quote from r3zp3k7 :

Ever since the mod system started, I've been thinking about rotating spoilers. Since this is possible now, my suggestion is for new triggers - acceleration and braking

Scawen himself suggested it.

Quote from Scawen :

Rotating parts that Spinners could be attached to:

Engine
Drive shaft
Final drive (diff)
Rear (left or right) wheel
Front (left or right) wheel
Steering wheel angle
Steer angle (left or right)

Input axes that Rotator and Sliders could be attached to:

Steering wheel (-1 to 1)
Throttle (0 to 1)
Brake
Clutch
Handbrake

But I wouldn't separate what is needed for what, I would like to be able to use any triggers for any animations.
In addition to this. It would be nice to have triggers from g-forces, and from direction of travel and speed, so that you can make air brakes for nascar cars.

For animations it is necessary to make repeaters that would repeat the animation, which would create vibrations and swaying. It would also be good if the frequency and amplitude of vibrations and swaying could depend on specific values of the axes. That the vibrations and swaying would become more intense when it is necessary.

It would also be nice to have animated collisions. Even if it will have to be done by separate objects (because in the original objects too many polygons to handle) otherwise even if now we can do opening doors and other things it does not affect the environment. And people can just drive through these objects.

But imho now the most important thing is to finish the main update with graphics and physics that everyone is waiting for (and Track Editor that many people are also waiting for😃). And not to focus on the various innovations for a handful of people.

Also, it would be great, if we could test/trigger the moving object directly from the modeler. In other words, trigger the movable object without leaving the modeler. You can't always get angles or moving length from the first time, so you have to constantly repeat the process of exiting the modeler to trigger the object from the editor and then go back in the modeler, select the proper suboject, edit the movement, again exit back to the editor. This process has to be repeated again and again and again until you get it right. Would be much easier, to put a trigger button below the movement settings.

Extrude function : when you click E the extrude options pop up. It would be helpful if the accept button is both Enter and E
Allows for quick extrusion with last used setting.. Just double click E to extrude.

Auto assign layer : tris generated from Extrude or Lathe should be automatically assigned to the active layer (if layer 0, the main one is turned off).. or layer could be determined by shift+rmb prior to function.

Static Line : Draw a line either from selecting multiple points (as trace function) or hold and drag mouse. Similar to select box. But only its job is to give a guide line thats helpful to see tris edge, heading or pitch when in 2D view.


Suggested activation keys:
- LMB+RMB and drag
- Enable Guide Line option On then Trace points.

Snap to : edit the existing button Center, but have an option to snap selected points to one of the axis, 0 the value of X, Y or Z
currently only available for X

Have the "make box from points" available in point mode as well.

Now when I want to measure the width/height/diagonal between two points, I have to do it via map mode:
- go to map mode
- click "show object points"
- select two points
- click "make box from points"

Since we have a few new types of objects (the moving ones), it would be great, if we could move triangles more easily to the new objects and return the triangles to the main one (which currently is available only for entire objects with the merge into main button). The break-off button is a bit of a ripoff because if you miss something, you have to redo everything, which takes time depending on the detail and triangles count. Overall this will be helpful for all types of objects.

I'm trying to improve one of my mods by adding real-life stuff only by using the Editor. I'm using BKG images as a reference, but I don't understand. Why BKG is limited to 1024/2048 resolution and PNG only? I guess that there is one written rule for this in the code and it's used in a few places in the Editor, so the code is more optimized and easy to deal with.

Should resolution size or image file extension matter in this case? I suggest adding more file formats (JPEG & BMP) and no restriction on the resolution size because BKG shouldn't affect the uploaded gameplay mod.

BTW. We all know how to make a 1024/2048 image, paste our original image, and save it as PNG. The question is why waste that energy and time on an image that is used only for reference?

I want to have a day on the editor tomorrow.

Quote from bayanofmansorofisky :

Static Line : Draw a line either from selecting multiple points (as trace function) or hold and drag mouse. Similar to select box. But only its job is to give a guide line thats helpful to see tris edge, heading or pitch when in 2D view.

I am a bit tired now, but I'll ask you to make this clearer for me to understand.

Is it really something that behaves like the 2D drag box, only it is separate from that and doesn't select points? Can you write a bit more description and a couple of use cases so I can visualise it better?

Quote from bayanofmansorofisky :

Snap to : edit the existing button Center, but have an option to snap selected points to one of the axis, 0 the value of X, Y or Z
currently only available for X

I think I thought of something like this before, but more related to typing in a number for X, Y or Z. But instead of preserving all the points value relative to the green selected point, it would set all of those points to that exact value that you typed in.

If that makes sense, would it achieve what you are suggesting? I think your description is what I've said but you type in '0'.

Quote from Scawen :

Is it really something that behaves like the 2D drag box, only it is separate from that and doesn't select points? Can you write a bit more description and a couple of use cases so I can visualise it better?

- it doesn't select points or triangles.
- can be drawn freely from minimum of 2 points.
- can not be drawn or deleted by Right Mouse Button.
- own ON and OFF option as well as Clear

Example:
https://www.lfs.net/attachment/573094

helps in cases such as:
https://www.lfs.net/attachment/573093

Reasons why:
https://www.lfs.net/attachment/573095

Quote from Scawen :

If that makes sense, would it achieve what you are suggesting? I think your description is what I've said but you type in '0'.

it sets value 0 for all selected points:
https://www.lfs.net/attachment/573096

Currently only effects for R so heres a way of making this a thing:

• have 3 buttons named as (R / F / U) below a button called (Snap to) which replaces (Center)
  

selected points snaps accordingly.

Thanks for that detailed description of the guide lines based on trace. I wonder if it could actually be initialised from a trace. I'm trying to keep the interface simple to implement. So you would make a trace then click a button to keep it as reference line data, until cleared.
[EDIT: I have done this now, works well - see attached image]

About the centering, I've thought more a bit today. I think a good way would be if I enabled ALT+click on the number (to the right of r/f/u buttons). Then the dialog that is initialised would be similar to the existing dialog but with some different text. And the outcome of that would be that all the selected points acquired that value.

So...

1) You could use that to achieve what you are saying, like this:
ALT+click the number. Enter 0.

2) You could make all points match the green point, like this:
ALT+click the number. Press enter.

3) Set all to some other value:
ALT+click the number. Enter a new number.


[I'm also looking back at the other suggestions]

Some of these suggestions are now done in Editor E7, including the new line guide as described.

Also a step towards being able to transfer selected triangles between subobjects. You can now merge a subobject into another subobject. So you could break off triangles from one subobject, into a temporary subobject, then merge that one into another subobject. I realise that sounds laborious but in some situations it could be more convenient than merging everything back to main object and breaking off again. Also, the eventual function to transfer triangles might well use an intermediate subobject invisibly, using this new function as part of the operation.

So I think it's an important new function and seems to work well as far as I have tested, but would like to hear if it works as expected for you.


Editor Patch E7:

Drag selection box:

Function to make drag box from points now available in points mode
Scale / rotate / shear axes are now hidden while making a drag box
Grey button shows drag info to avoid left buttons moving around

Typing individual values to align points:

ALT + click r/f/u numbers to set all selected points to same value
- relative values compared with last selected point not preserved

New modeller line guide:

Set up a trace then click "guide" to create a line guide
- the guide is visible in most editor modes and all views
- options to hide/show the guide or draw it open/closed

Merging subobjects:

You can now merge a subobject fully into another subobject
- this is a step towards moving a selection between subobjects
- triangles can now be transferred via an intermediate subobject

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/106792

Quote from Scawen :

Thank you for this. I already tried it a few times and it makes everything way easier.

Merging subobject into subobject is fine and it's way more efficient than the available methods before. Another efficient improvement will be, if we could do a new empty subobject directly from the popup warning as in the attachment image. Rather than just "OK", there could be a "Create an empty subobject". This way we will get the needed information from the popup warning, but we can continue with just 1 click.


What does this button do?
1. Directly does a new empty subobject.
2. Does break off again.

Yes, I have been thinking of this too, actually have already asked Eric about it.

The only issue I have, and it's not a big problem, just which point to use as the origin of the automatically created "break off" object. I think it should be one of the points belong to the selected triangles, or somehow related to them.

Maybe a yellow button if there is one, or a point that is low down in the selection. You might think of something like a point that is in the centre of the selection, but this could risk losing precision. Maybe the nearest point to the centre, or the lowest point?

Just thought I'd ask this in case anyone has a good idea for that. It's not that big a deal because you can adjust it after breaking off, but a good choice of object centre might be helpful, I guess.

Quote from bayanofmansorofisky :

Auto assign layer : tris generated from Extrude or Lathe should be automatically assigned to the active layer (if layer 0, the main one is turned off).. or layer could be determined by shift+rmb prior to function.

Can you explain this? I tried extrude or trace and it did use the currently selected layer, as I would expect so I'm not sure what you would like to work differently.


Related to this, I thought of a possibility specific to extrude (not lathe). The trace line is often along existing triangle edges. I think it could detect this and use all the properties of the triangle that shares the edge (separately for each line in the trace). Smoothing group, mapping, layer.

Quote from Scawen :

The only issue I have, and it's not a big problem, just which point to use as the origin of the automatically created "break off" object. I think it should be one of the points belong to the selected triangles, or somehow related to them.

The best idea that I currently have is that all options are be available and the user can pick up the best suitable for him for the exact situation, but if that's not the case - then I have no clue.

"Choose the New Subobject location"
- Default position 0 X/Z/Y
- Closest point to the center of X
- Middle of all selected points
- Last selected point

For me, the best is always the middle between the selected points, but maybe that depends on the situation. My 3D experience started when you published the Mod Editor, so I have very little experience. Others more experienced as Eric could give their opinion. Overall it's not that hard to move the points in the proper location afterwards.