Quote from versiu :

rFactor 1 and 2 had unlicenced copies of existing tracks for years so I don't think that maps inspired by real track will be an issue. By "inspired" I mean real course with fantasy enviroment around it etc.

Today creators have acces to great technology and some mod tracks in other games are real LIDAR scans.

Times are different now though. In the earlier days of simracing, you could probably get away with a lot just by virtue of the legal paperwork not crossing over into the virtual world and simply the name alone was all that was covered but not the virtual "likeness".

And to add to what others have said, nobody is saying that all mods are rips but the vast majority are. And rather than giving VOLUNTEERS headaches when they come home from a hard days work, people are brainstorming a way to make it easier on those giving their time for free.

Quote from gu3st :

Yeah people might have to do more work than just ripping from other sims.

I mean... I've been layoutting custom driver oriented tracks since 2016, and perhaps it is just my creativity and knowledge of track flow but I've rarely had to resort to stealing ideas from other irl existing tracks, unless I'm making... an irl track - but I still don't see the need to rip tracks directly off sims. that's just wrong.



This is yet to be published 😁 It will debut on this year's Layout Racing League...



And this as well...



Or this...

In short... not everyone has the institutional intuitive sense to poop out tracks. Only a few people I know can as well (shoutout to Michal... Rony... 9397... Niko and so forth). So if there WERE to be a track editor, it can't be made public domain for every user to use. It takes way more coordination and effort to craft (yes, craft, not simply make) a layout.

Still, I'll await the day LFS Track editor is a thing.... tons of tracks in the waiting...

Quote from MicroSpecV :

I mean... I've been layoutting custom driver oriented tracks since 2016, and perhaps it is just my creativity and knowledge of track flow but I've rarely had to resort to stealing ideas from other irl existing tracks, unless I'm making... an irl track - but I still don't see the need to rip tracks directly off sims. that's just wrong.

Yeah I mean doing recreations of tracks like this (even in a native track editor) is fine (monaco is incredible work tbh). The thing that you see in other sims that allow mods is that they just rip the assets from other games. It's part of the reason why Scawen has the rules for car mods the way he does, as to try to avoid copyright infringement.

It's even funnier now becuase many tracks have gone through generations of being ripped from old games. Ripped from something like F1 Challenge to rFactor to AC to rF2. Just old inaccurate tracks dragged through time.

Quote from juliao :

Are you for or against? the creation of tracks mods in lfs other than the...

I hope they will add this amazing track

tks guys

I think this would be one of the biggest things to be added to LFS. I think ppl from Assetto Corsa, and maybe even other games like CarX, and get LFS and see what it has to offer if they add custom tracks.

Quote from CAM22b :

I think this would be one of the biggest things to be added to LFS. I think ppl from Assetto Corsa, and maybe even other games like CarX, and get LFS and see what it has to offer if they add custom tracks.

So a lot of ripped content (in AC's case) from various older games or Forza/Gran Turismo.

Quote from juliao :

Are you for or against? the creation of tracks mods in lfs other than the...

I see people living in the early 1800s waiting for John Dalton to publish his atomic theory in 1803 saying things like "stealing tracks from other simulators, copying content", blah blah blah. What do I care about that? It's the middle of 2024 and not having track freedom in a simulator is the biggest shortcoming. Just with such a step, you can make LFS unrivaled.

Why not handle track copyright issues the same way as with the cars? Slightly change the route and call it "Le Mons" or "Blue Bull Ring". If fake names pass on slightly changed cars, I don't see why the tracks can't be created the same way.

I firmly believe that user generated content is the easiest (and also probably the best) way to extend the "life" of a game. I've spent many years drifting on random Minami layouts on AX, doing a jump wall tap on the actual track with LFS physics would bring tears of joy.

Also, another point that I didn't see mentioned in this topic: rally stages. LFS handles both tarmac and gravel unlike any other (non-rally) sim, there is a huge, currently untapped potential in creating such stages especially if you think of already existing car mods, and the support for slalom/staged starts.

Quote from Lekvar012 :

Why not handle track copyright issues the same way as with the cars? Slightly change the route and call it "Le Mons" or "Blue Bull Ring". If fake names pass on slightly changed cars, I don't see why the tracks can't be created the same way.

I firmly believe that user generated content is the easiest (and also probably the best) way to extend the "life" of a game. I've spent many years drifting on random Minami layouts on AX, doing a jump wall tap on the actual track with LFS physics would bring tears of joy.

Also, another point that I didn't see mentioned in this topic: rally stages. LFS handles both tarmac and gravel unlike any other (non-rally) sim, there is a huge, currently untapped potential in creating such stages especially if you think of already existing car mods, and the support for slalom/staged starts.

With tracks I think less is the risk of track copyright for branding and more for IP theft from other games.

Quote from gu3st :

With tracks I think less is the risk of track copyright for branding and more for IP theft from other games.

I'm curious to know how other simulators deal with this. Surely they're in the same situation as LFS if custom tracks are allowed?

Quote from Silverracer :

I'm curious to know how other simulators deal with this.

Other simulator are widely open to any mods. Only big simaracing databases bans any copyrighted stuff.

As far as we know, Kunos (devs of AC) wanna change that and block copyrighted content in their next game.

Why don't just ban to use whole track models from any source and require to make it all yourself?
The best car mods were made from scrath (mostly in blender)...

how would you enforce that?

Quote from versiu :

Other simulator are widely open to any mods.

Because none of them distribute any mods through their servers - that's what LFS does with cars and if/when track mods ever are available,then I expect that happen also with tracks. And the one who's distributing content is also viable in any legal disputes.

Quote from Silverracer :

I'm curious to know how other simulators deal with this. Surely they're in the same situation as LFS if custom tracks are allowed?

They never host the content. Third parties assume the risk of hosting and are generally protected by the DMCA (in the Us) if they honour takedown requests from rights holders.

Of course, that doesn't prevent folks from setting up sites where the DMCA (or similar) laws hold no teeth, and then rights holders don't have much to stand on other than suing the host itself in its country.

Obviously Scawen went a different route for mods with self-hosting to try to prevent piracy of LFS as well.

Quote from versiu :

Other simulator are widely open to any mods. Only big simaracing databases bans any copyrighted stuff.

As far as we know, Kunos (devs of AC) wanna change that and block copyrighted content in their next game.

Why don't just ban to use whole track models from any source and require to make it all yourself?
The best car mods were made from scrath (mostly in blender)...

Kunos definitely wants to prevent as amny mods as feasible so they can sell all that content as DLC. Only the most obsucre tracks they'll never build will be allowed.

It's gonna be more funny when people realize they bought the exact same nordschleife in both ACC and AC2.

Quote from Eclipsed :

Because none of them distribute any mods through their servers - that's what LFS...

ooooooh, yeah, now that I come to think of it, this makes a lot of sense. Then can't it be handled like with other sites? E.G. takedown on request of copyright holder?

I mean, I don't really see how this topic is different from vehicle mods, they are the same thing essentially, user created content for a game, the same rules should apply - but I might be mistaken, feel free to correct me if so.

Of course, handling the track server side is an entirely different question, but I don't see this as a big issue. One thing that I'd add is a "download state" while loading the track (and also the vehicle mods), sometimes when I try to load a mod, it takes surprisingly long, and I'm not sure if there is a problem, and how much longer do I have to wait.
If there would be a status bar like "Downloading 50%, approx 30 sec remaining" (like back in the CoD2 days, for example) that would solve the uncertainty with the tracks downloading on joining a server as well.

*. Track editor releases

*no option to import any OBJ, track editor comes with every objects Eric had ever created with option to build on or manipulate object points and load in custom alps and textures,



*tracks are then submitted and instead of reviewers having to check for copyright or struggle to check all corners of the map, the community can instantly get access to it (like test this mod feature) and vote on if it has any gaps or errors and if no one says ewwwwwww or yo theres a issue at turn 4 then its all good but tracks must be fully polished no errors before its downloadable publicly in game so basically anyone can test it as much as possible for any errors or issues, because once its published theres no "update map" button


Simple, everyone wins

Every time I return to Lfs I always notice how everything seems to be all of a piece.

Although I would really like to see mod routes,
I somehow think that it could change the character of the simulation too much.
I think the whole thing is a bigger risk than the cars.

If LFS had relied on modding from the start, I'm sure we would have a different product in our hands today. But that doesn't always mean better. The support would definitely have eaten up at least 20% of your working time. Lfs is so finely tuned, even to this day it feels very special among all simulations.

I see all of this as being at serious risk. Don't get me wrong, I love mods.
But this feeling that everything is one piece would disappear and with it perhaps some immersion and credibility. Even if you could drive on the Nordschleife, it would look different in style than the rest.

And that's exactly what I hate about AC, there are a lot of fantastic racing routes, but the balancing act is so broad in the form of presentation that an overall identity is missing in the end.

Quote from Xenix74 :

Every time I return to Lfs I always notice how everything seems to be all of a...

From where I see it, having custom track support wouldn't take away from the game, only add to it. So if you don't want to try out and drive on jank courses, you don't have to, but if you'd like experience something new, feel free to discover!

I really don't like to play manager with someone other's time, but in terms of active player count, this would be the most beneficial thing to add to the game (if that is a goal in any way), just as car mods were. I'm not saying that we shouldn't be satisfied until LFS is more popular than AC, I think it is so fun because the community is quite tight.

I don't see a risk like in this function, as long as the mod tracks are not listed in the same location as the official tracks. That would probably discourage any new players, if the quality of the mod tracks would be as low as you fear. But this is again the same case as with vehicle mods, all we need is a separate button on the track selection screen saying "mods".