None of this is about any "unfair advantage". Whatever the system, it has always been the same for every one of us. I totally beg to differ on the realism subject though. It's like me asking for another shift-r key, like shift-*-R which allows me to begin a hotlap which I messed up from the point just before I messed it up, because it can assume that since I drove the lap up till that point, I can do it again. That'll save me time.
None of this is about any "unfair advantage". Whatever the system, it has always been the same for every one of us. I totally beg to differ on the realism subject though. It's like me asking for another shift-r key, like shift-*-R which allows me to begin a hotlap which I messed up from the point just before I messed it up, because it can assume that since I drove the lap up till that point, I can do it again. That'll save me time.
well right now it is not the only way to heat em up evenly but its the less time consuming alternative. I like the way how Alonso is catching some grip as well but thats not possible in lfs right now. I mean sure it is, but you have to do alot more actions to get a simular result. I may be wrong on that but i have the strong feeling its like that, because i had....some practice
So, you do not agree with me that it could be more fair for everybody while starting with (more) pre-heated tires right? As i said, to a limit set by the devs, maybe 20°+ so you still loosing temp and you still have to heat em up but not that exessive way as it requires right now.
i was just asking, a simple yes or no would be enough so far
actually it was meaned more generally and the "you" was not only to limit at/on you personally. Sorry for that 
@ Honey:
I would like to see the possibility to choose from all of these. As long as none of these points gives you a clear advandtage to everything else it should not be a problem but thats to complex to decide here and now, for me. Any other ideas on that? Btw. i like that summary. Nice job.
(1) start with prewarmed fixed tyre temperature (as it is now)
(5) start from last sector from zero kmh (as it is now)
(5) start from last sector from zero kmh (as it is now)
same for me.
I am a useless hotlapper (my laps are faster racing against other cars than on my own 
illepall ) but here are my ideas.
Pre-warmed tyres and start from previous split at a set speed. It's possible to set cars in motion at the start, one of the lessons I think does that or am I thinking of something else.
illepall ) but here are my ideas.Pre-warmed tyres and start from previous split at a set speed. It's possible to set cars in motion at the start, one of the lessons I think does that or am I thinking of something else.
flying start from last sector, not finish line...actually iwouldnt bother, but it adds the realism some people are looking for...
(1) + (4).
this is different, because doing the outlap is a simple thing to do that requires no skills, whilst of course the hotlap is a thing on the edge and repeating the first part of it after you did a mistake is a thing very hard to do and this is the competition that hotlaps bring...the outlap do not bring anything to the hotlap competition.
so we all agree (as you just said) it is not an unfair advantage, so, following your logic, an option for hardcore gamers to start from pits would solve this, am i correct?
1 cold (ish) tyres
4 start from pits.
I have to agree with Sinbad on the added worth and (simulated) realism of starting HL from the pits.
I just dont see any dissadvantage to anyone, we would all be using the same system right? except it will take longer to complete an outlap then run a HL (time enough to heat tyres in a realistic way),so a few added minuites to the hours needed to HL all the combos anyway shouldnt upset anyone should it.
SD.
4 start from pits.
I have to agree with Sinbad on the added worth and (simulated) realism of starting HL from the pits.
I just dont see any dissadvantage to anyone, we would all be using the same system right? except it will take longer to complete an outlap then run a HL (time enough to heat tyres in a realistic way),so a few added minuites to the hours needed to HL all the combos anyway shouldnt upset anyone should it.
SD.
I know, my example was an exaggeration.
As I have already said, I don't feel strongly about the starting point, but if it had been start-from-the-pits since day one, then I think the suggestion to start from the last split with optimally-heated tyres would be scoffed at, on grounds of realism. Of course, I think the tyre temperature thing is crazy, they should never ever be auto-heated completely to optimal temperature. It's a game, yes, but these are supposed to be real cars with real tyres.
Anyway, this is my last post in this thread. I've said all I have to say, and to conclude, I'm disappointed that people don't seem to enjoy the game as a whole. Do people really hate the simple act of driving the cars so much that they are not prepared to drive them for a lap from the pitlane to heat the tyres up in preparation for a hotlap? Just because shortcuts are possible in a game, doesn't mean we should be obliged to take them because they save time. In "The Perfect Sim" (indistinguishable from reality) would we really be asking to teleport 3/4 of the way round a track? Is this quest for WR times above all else the prime reason some of us play? I really thought this was a racing/motorsport-simulation with the option to drive hotlaps, not a hotlap-contest-game with virtual cars.
Well i think you dont get what i and some other are try to say and this hole thing sounds more dramatic then it is or you think it is. As i said (but it seams to me nobody reads what im typing so this is the last post here as well) its not the goal to create a hole new hotlap mode or simular. But you have to see the facts. There are people like you (nice hotlapping btw. just checked that out) that enjoys hotlapping more then others. The way you drive and the laps you have done shows that. I am the direct opposite to you. I enjoy hotlapping as well (these days) and the way i like to hotlap is different, faster and not that time consuming. But that does not exclude the fact that im having fun. Theres no problem at all when you like to spend alot of time for hotlapping, youre making plans and work on your setup and then you enjoy the differences compared to the previous status, maybe more then others. Same to me, but the difference is that i enjoy to do it as fast as possible. And also, mainly i payed for this game to have some nice fights online and not to hotlap
(you could say im not a hotlapper by nature) But skills came with practice and i feld i could beat some times or give some times to deal with for others and thats why i have started it.So finally, i wish theres a option for those that like to hotlap and enjoys every single second (like you) and for those that like to do some quick hotlaps to see whats going on, how to improve at given stages or simple got borred by starting over and over again simple because they messed up the hotlap or tire heating procedure.
Let me finish this with these last infos: as i went from nascar to lfs i was disappointed as i have seen what actions are needed in order to get a fast time on the oval. (Quietscheentes WR on FO8/Oval) So i did not even tried to do a single hotlap for ages because it was clear, the only and main reason, beside skills and practice was, you need cooking rims to be fast. Btw. im still convinced that the tires would not take those spins that easy and then doing a hotlap after that is simple rediculas somehow for me but i know, its still alpha
And dont be disappointed anymore because we all love lfs on our own ways otherwise we would not be here and try to help with the improvements and/or simular things.
Personal Word of the Day: Hotlap
illepall greetings
Plaztik
My post was more precise, and as such, better
Yes, but in real life, there is no such thing a hotlapping. And as such it has very little to do with real life. Only hotlapping that is done in real life, is with karts on some pay-per-drive circuits. Or in rally, but that is a whole different universe...
I would really not like to see that drivers need to start the hotlapping from the pits, even if do have to do it in real life. It is basically those things that don't add anything to the game, as biggie said. Driving alone a whole lap to start other one with full speed. Make an error, press buttons and go to pits and restart. If you want the whole realism package, you drive back to the pits, change fresh new (maybe even preheated) tyres and fix the damage, fill fuel and go off again. And wait that the pit crew does it for you. Or same thing applied to racing. Why don't we need to drive the cars to their starting places, or drive the cars back to paddock after race? While a nice feature it might be, you should ask: does it add anything new or interesting to the whole theme of LFS?. As unrealistic it may be, starting the hotlaps with tires at optimum temp at the beginning of last sector sounds ok to me. Or is it more realistic that you suft the track back on forth to get your tires to optimum temperatures? In real life you never ever never drive the track on wrong direction. Never.
Realism has always its price. In real life you have to pay the price, always. In sim, we (Scavier) can choose if we need to. Like fixing the damage in real time, as it is done in nkpro. Why? I just don't get what ultimate 100% realism adds to a racing sim. I'm quite happy with 90%, without all the boring and unnecessary things, like changing the fluids between races, fixing the car in real time or to not be able to race because you don't have money to install new suspension part?
Or Sprints
Or Hillclimbs (but also slightly different, a bit like Rallying, in so much as it's A - B not A - A
But they are more of an event type of thing. Hotlapping is not (imho) an event (the damn plonkers do it all the time!
), like a race is for example. Maybe stuff like drag racing comes closest to the idea of hotlapping?But maybe slightly OT...
This concept of a 'perfect sim' baffles me. The whole idea of a sim is that you simulate various elements of real life as closely as possible, while removing many of the time, money, and danger barriers / hassles / elements associated with that activity. Where would you stop in your perfect sim? Would you have to drive your car across the country in a truck?
Actually... In a rally sim I think it'd be fun to (as an option) to drive from your shop area to the start of the stage, it'd be fun, albiet a bit cumbersome. Imagine driving from Westhill to Kyoto... 4 day road trip :P
I agree with Blowtus, you want to make it as realistic as possible, but still take the hassles out that prevents people with the skills from doing it.
I agree with Blowtus, you want to make it as realistic as possible, but still take the hassles out that prevents people with the skills from doing it.
2+6
I'd start holapping, if I did not have to do some crazy acrobatics to preheat my tires.
I'd start holapping, if I did not have to do some crazy acrobatics to preheat my tires.
Erm... imho the other way, but anyway.
+1 for biggie
Pre-selected temperature would be very nice. But please up to 150+ degree. On the oval you need one or two laps to warm your tires before you can start your hotlap. Boring to make a mistake in T1 I tell you. For me it´s not a difference to start from track or pit. But I agree with the circuit hotlappers that it´s wasted time.
@Hyperactive: Drag is one on one. Rallye is imho near to hotlapping.
I support the idea of starting with warm tyres on track for hotlapping. It shouldn't be a timewaste. On the contrary, practice session is better to start from pits. Nobody starts it from the starting grid on the straight.
I DO agree with the idea of starting hotlap with already heated tyres. That'd save A LOT of time. Look at some KY1 replays. 5 minutes of tyre heating and 1 minute of driving. What is the competition? "Who has more patience to warm tyres perfectly"? Or "who can drive faster"? And there is absolutely no chance to show good time without hot tyres, so you have to spend this time. Not spend, waste. And there is no output of this. None of skills improving. Just boring porcedure. Mmmm.. Would you include washing dishes in "eating breakfast" simulator?
+1
But IMHO on KY1 (not so spell the bad word) the setup is still the most important part of the package:
-Setup
-Line
-Tires
@Atta: Do you play Sims? =)
exactly
agreed! and after all it's called hotlapping
What about the compromise to start all hotlaps from the pits, but with pre-heated tyres? This would be my favorite.
then your tyres will be overheated just after the warmup-lap
Spinoff : Future hotlapping start position
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