Quote from keiran :

Had asked someone who takes quite a lot of photos at my local kart club if he had any kicking about from when I used to race karts and he sent me some of these from the Non MSA event we did not so long ago while he has a look. Me and my Dad entered in the prokarts renting their karts, luckily only one guy came in his own prokart and wasn't quick enough to make use of the advantage it had of being only made to withstand hitting one solid brick wall rather than the two ours were built for

Anyway have a close look at the right front in our view of the picture, you can actually see the bead (spelling?) breaking away slightly.

Keiran

love the visor reflection - used to have a cracking shot of a kart on 3 wheels from behind that i took but i cant find it

Just this morning I took a freeway interchange at a fast enough speed to make the tires growl through all 270 degreed of the uphill positive camber interchange. The back end steped out at about 5 degrees and the rear tires in their optimal slip angle. When i got to work i took a good look at the tires. The new wear was half way between the edge of the tread where is rolls down toward the sidewall and the point where the tread blends in to the side wall, so still squarly on the tread of the tire.

I am running 205/50R15 Yokohama tires rated to 150mph, inflated to 35psi and about -2 degrees of camber. If i set the GTT or GT up this way I would roll the tires right over on the sidewalls and loose grip, have slugish handeling and be slow around the track. Somthing is just not right there.

Fantastic thread. Thanks for the pictures and videos.



Edit:

In my old car, I had the suspension setup.... well... to not move. I had less body roll than an F1 car. (joking). But... I had about -1.5 camber in the rear and could fold the tires almost to the rim. They were "street performance" tires.. Toyo's.. on 30ish lbs of pressure. But then again, I tried to flip the car more often than not.

one of the pics i took today at the rallye defi ste-agathe

notice the front right tire digging in and absorbing all the weight

Quote from Gimpster :

Just this morning I took a freeway interchange at a fast enough speed to make the tires growl through all 270 degreed of the uphill positive camber interchange. The back end steped out at about 5 degrees and the rear tires in their optimal slip angle. When i got to work i took a good look at the tires. The new wear was half way between the edge of the tread where is rolls down toward the sidewall and the point where the tread blends in to the side wall, so still squarly on the tread of the tire.

I am running 205/50R15 Yokohama tires rated to 150mph, inflated to 35psi and about -2 degrees of camber. If i set the GTT or GT up this way I would roll the tires right over on the sidewalls and loose grip, have slugish handeling and be slow around the track. Somthing is just not right there.

indeed, lfs road tyres deform too much and also, as i discussed in the past, they deform in an unrealistic way, on the other hand slick tyres seem to behave realistically (according to videos, photos, etc.) and the handling too is not weird like it is now on road tyres i don't know if the problem is that devs used the same tyre physics for both slick and road tyres, or if the set road tyres deformation just to achieve the wanted lateral grip value...neverthless both situations are very wrong and this is why with the new patch almost nobody drives road-tyres-car anymore (except cops and robbers and drifters)...me included...

Quote from Honey :

this is why with the new patch almost nobody drives road-tyres-car anymore (except cops and robbers and drifters)...me included...

a) the road cars were hardly ever driven anyway
b) the road cars, especially the more powerful ones, are more fun to drive than ever... but so are the race cars

I really don't think tyre deformation has anything to do with it.

People always drive the fastest car, if its not too difficult to control, even though the faster the car is, the less racing and more hotlapping is going on.
The slow cars, specially the good old TBO class are really underrated.
Imo, ppl dont use the normal road cars anymore because the locked diffs make them handle like crap. A setup that actually feels like a car is mostly slower than for example the FWD setups which oversteer more at turn exit than a RWD...

i'm sorry guys but i don't agree! i remember that prepatch there were always some regular servers for tbo (mostly fern green) and xfg (mostly blackwood).
whenever i talk about this argument online many people agree with me, after patch only lrf servers were sometimes populated, but this was a particual case for people seeking for big challenges (and actually i remeber very good battles with rac at bl), maybe it was not the only cause, but i am convinced that it played a big role in the road car less popularity

Hi!

http://www.vas.be/disciplines/ ... ostende/SLOOSTENDE825.jpg

Quote from Honey :

i'm sorry guys but i don't agree! i remember that prepatch there were always some regular servers for tbo (mostly fern green) and xfg (mostly blackwood).
whenever i talk about this argument online many people agree with me, after patch only lrf servers were sometimes populated, but this was a particual case for people seeking for big challenges (and actually i remeber very good battles with rac at bl), maybe it was not the only cause, but i am convinced that it played a big role in the road car less popularity

Pre Patch the ESL UK was in full tide using the TBO class...

Quote from hinirags :

Hi!

http://www.vas.be/disciplines/ ... ostende/SLOOSTENDE825.jpg

Doesn't matter what you show around here, the robots insist "LFS tires deform too much", never mind your pictures of real life, they mean nothing. illepall

Besides those are motorcycle tyres on that car on the front There is too much sidewall flex in the street tires with not enough low PSI overheating compaired to street tires. If I ran LFS pressures with any street tire the tire would more than likely fail in short order. That is why when you goto the track with street tires everyone is pumping thier tires up to 50 PSI plus. There is something wrong when the fastest setups are using 20PSI and less in street tires with no consequences.

Fair enough Chris except those are two different opposing issues. Is the issue too much flex or not the right effects to match it? If there was too much flex in LFS then you wouldn't be pumping your tires up to 50lbs for RL events would you?

What I finally think you guys are getting at is that the effects of the flex are not quite up to par with what should happen. The tires in LFS do not physically flex too much, perhaps there could be some tweaking to the model regarding how grip is affected with severe flex, or maybe there are some things not implemented yet. A tire logically should flex the most it ever could when it's generating the most grip it possibily can for any given pressure, since that is where the greatest lateral load possible is imposed on the poor thing.

Jeff, I think you might be right that I am missing the point... I hate written language =P Physically I think the tires flex properly to the eye at the given low pressure, but they effects and maths behind the tires grip are off making them not feel proper. I get what people are saying now correctly or did I miss it yet again?

Pics of real life mean nothing because they could be taken the instant the tire is flexing the most.. and then the tires bounce back to a more normal degree of "flexing"..

In LFS the tires seem to flex, and "stay flexed" way too long.. without bouncing back to a happy medium just like that Porsche movie shows.

The point is that for the force being exerted on the tire in relation to how much grip it's generating, the physical deformation is correct. The issue is the driveability and how much grip they retain under those conditions, not the deformation itself.

Edit: IE If they weren't generating so much grip under severe deformation, then they also wouldn't deform quite as much

Quote from BWX232 :

Pics of real life mean nothing because they could be taken the instant the tire is flexing the most.. and then the tires bounce back to a more normal degree of "flexing"..

In LFS the tires seem to flex, and "stay flexed" way too long.. without bouncing back to a happy medium just like that Porsche movie shows.

Personally I think another factor could be the way the tyre can move on the wheel. In gearbox karts they use little screws to stop the tyre pulling away from the wheel. I know the way they bond has some special name like bead, can't remember . That picture I posted has gearbox tyres on with no screws and you can see it coming away from the wheel ever so slightly. I think if this happened in LFS it probably wouldn't look so extreme.

Keiran

Quote from BWX232 :

Pics of real life mean nothing because they could be taken the instant the tire is flexing the most.. and then the tires bounce back to a more normal degree of "flexing"..

Um... what about the video clips?

Quote from george_tsiros :

Um... what about the video clips?

Quote from BWX232 :

without bouncing back to a happy medium just like that Porsche movie shows.

...

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

The point is that for the force being exerted on the tire in relation to how much grip it's generating, the physical deformation is correct. The issue is the driveability and how much grip they retain under those conditions, not the deformation itself.

Edit: IE If they weren't generating so much grip under severe deformation, then they also wouldn't deform quite as much

I get it now =) Yes thats what I was kinda trying to say that under severe deformation there is way too much grip. I wonder if they could simulate sidewall failure under severe sidewall stress?

That would be cool. I suspect when things are tweaked we'll be forced to run more typical tire pressures

I sure hope so =) Maybe with sidewall failure pressures would have to be upped to realistic levels where the cars behave a bit more natural.

I wonder why ppl keep bashing about the simulated flex.
I mean, nobody complains about the handling of the cars.
And thats a function of the tyre flex!

The extreme flex has been shown on flat tyres in lfs.
Now is this so awkward? No - since its flat! G** D***!

:chairs:

When the tyre is under pressure it obviously behaves realistic.
Otherwise LFS wouldnt enjoy such a great popularity.

Anyone opposing?

No, I do not oppose what you said directly whatsoever.

I think what anyone who has anything valid to say is TRYING to say is that possibly there should be at least some grip reduction when the tires flex beyond a certain point. Although I can see it now - if that gets fixed, people will bitch that there is not enough lateral grip and or the way lateral / longitudinal grip is combined is wrong. Perhaps not the latter as thats not really related probably. The real point is that some folks feel that the tires should have less grip than they do under extreme flex conditions. Maybe they're right, I honestly don't know for sure either way. This is different from someone saying "the tires flex too much", because they do NOT flex TOO MUCH from what I can tell. It probably just looks odd since no other sim on the planet does it, at least not visually for sure. Don't know about DR, missed that boat.