I drive to college Tuesdays to Thursdays, and some of the time when it rains, I tend to get sensitive understeer on my 1.3 Astra 1986. Good examples are roundabouts, and long curve corners, at slower pace, compared to dry weather pace.

Just now, I took a quick corner at 60mph in the damp road *consider me crazy, just wanted to see how sensitive the understeer was in that speed* And I had huge understeer, but was able to keep the car in control with ease.

Is it a simple case of "Slow down ya crazy scotsman!" or "Check the grip on your tyres*

Should I ease off on the corners a bit more? Or does anyone else get that same effect.

what about the suspension? how old are these parts? The tires could also be a reason and the question is, how much did the chassic deformed overall or at special *most used* areas/parts.

On a front engined, front wheel drive car (i.e. the front tyres have to do everything, and the rear tyres exist only to stop the fuel tank rubbing on the ground) the balance in the wet is going to move towards understeer. What speed is that corner normally drivable at? And what type of understeer was it - power understeer or steering understeer - i.e. were you using too much power in the wet and exceeding the traction capabilities of the tyre, or were you at neutral throttle and still getting understeer.

Obviously, if you think it's 'odd', then have a look at your tyres - tread depth is important in the wet (it matters not in the dry, and lower tread is 'better' in nice conditions). Or are they just old tyres that have lost their 'bite'?

To be honest, it could be lots of things. How are you turning in - smoothly or throwing the car in? Are you braking or accelerating? Are you simply going too fast for the conditions, or is there something amiss?

"Anyone else get easy understeer when the roads are wet?"

Errr.........yes, of course, the road has less grip therefore it will be easier to understeer.

If you rode a bike you would know this more, understeer is not something you want to happen on a bike LOL.

Dan,

Anyone who feels the need to ask this is definately driving too fast for the conditions.

What a lot of Ford Mondeo and other maniac drivers dont realise is that it isn't the water which is loosing you grip, understanding what happens to tarmac in the wet is fundamental to safety, and it should be part of the driving license test in my opinion.

In the dry all your grip comes from the bite of the tyre into the tarmac and the rubber embedded into it. In the wet that rubber is lifted out so you just have tarmac, without the 'extra' bite. This is more noticeable on course tarmacs and on roads with faster corners where more rubber is embedded.

More important however, is all the bits of grit, oil and grime that normally seep deep into the tarmac are lighter than water, so as the water sinks down the oil and grit lifts up.

So instead of driving on grippy rubber embedded tarmac you are driving on a layer of oil and grit resting ontop of water.

For this reason it only takes a little bit of water for a lot of grip to go, infact the grip in marginally wet weather is about the same as grip on a typical rainy Scottish day.

The next noticeable change in grip is when the tyres tread is not able to expel all of the water, this occurs in heavy rain or when the tyres are worn. This second stage of grip is relatively safe because people slow down for it, although visibility can be an issue.

The first stage, when there's a bit of water but not much, that is the most dangerous because anyone in a company car such as those 'wonderful' Ford Mondeo's and Jaguar X types dont bother slowing down at all because 'its only a bit of water, its practically dry'. This is when people get killed.

Wet roads are the most fun!!! I actually look forward to when I get some rainfall here for the Fall and Winter season.

When I used to drive an old 89 Jeep, that thing would understeer, oversteer, it was lots of fun in the wet Now I just have a little FWD compact and the understeer is kind of rare, but I actually get oversteer if I am using the brakes at the latest possible point (or just causing rapid weight transfer when beginning to turn) and that's about all I notice in the wet

Quote from tristancliffe :

On a front engined, front wheel drive car (i.e. the front tyres have to do everything, and the rear tyres exist only to stop the fuel tank rubbing on the ground) the balance in the wet is going to move towards understeer. What speed is that corner normally drivable at? And what type of understeer was it - power understeer or steering understeer - i.e. were you using too much power in the wet and exceeding the traction capabilities of the tyre, or were you at neutral throttle and still getting understeer.

Obviously, if you think it's 'odd', then have a look at your tyres - tread depth is important in the wet (it matters not in the dry, and lower tread is 'better' in nice conditions). Or are they just old tyres that have lost their 'bite'?

To be honest, it could be lots of things. How are you turning in - smoothly or throwing the car in? Are you braking or accelerating? Are you simply going too fast for the conditions, or is there something amiss?

Now that I'm getting replies for those with more experience in cars than I, and seeing myself a bit more in driving in both wet and dry conditions. It is infact me driving a bit fast on the wets, even though I have been confident of controlling the car. On the dry, the grip is there, but I have done heavy braking *car doesnt have ABS* and I locked my fronts quite hard on a few occasions, because of faults of other drivers.

What is the legal tread of the tyres? I might consider a tyre change altogether.

Quote from Tweaker :

Wet roads are the most fun!!! I actually look forward to when I get some rainfall here for the Fall and Winter season.

I honestly enjoy it, because I like to learn to control the car more. I turn in too fast deliberately *when no cars are around and it is safe to do so* and control the car. It's actually improved my driving ever since.

Quote from BigDave2967 :

I drive to college Tuesdays to Thursdays, and some of the time when it rains, I tend to get sensitive understeer on my 1.3 Astra 1986. Good examples are roundabouts, and long curve corners, at slower pace, compared to dry weather pace.

Just now, I took a quick corner at 60mph in the damp road *consider me crazy, just wanted to see how sensitive the understeer was in that speed* And I had huge understeer, but was able to keep the car in control with ease.

Is it a simple case of "Slow down ya crazy scotsman!" or "Check the grip on your tyres*

Should I ease off on the corners a bit more? Or does anyone else get that same effect.

To Bad you don't live on campous and bike everywhere..I'll just say "stay " the course....it's all up from here for you..but that's me..an Optimus.

Atom, are you on friggin drugs man?

I think he might be an autobot.

His brother's borrowed the family brain cell for the day...

I'll get this back on topic shall I? :P

What is the legal tread of the tyres? I might consider a tyre change altogether.

Just an advice for having fun in the rain: Only do so when you know the road you are on and have enough visibility to *see with your own eyes* that there are no cars. I myself got picked off the road on my bike by someone who didn't follow that rule. Wasn't all that nice.
Thus: Having fun in your car is great. In the rain it's even better because you don't have to go fast to have fun. But please do it in a way that you are ure it's safe (no, just thinking it's safe isn't okay). You might kill someone.

On the understeer issue: Those speeds seem reasonable. I know a road where you have to go around 60km/h (that's 37mph) in damp conditions even though it looks like 80-90km/h (55mph).
On the tyre issue: Tyres loose a lot of wet capability with age. That's because the comound gets harder with the years. The softener in the compound vanishes. The tyre will then be very hard in the cold rain and have a much reduced grip.

Can't help on the tread issue though. German legal tread depth won't help you.

Vain

Quote from somewhere on the internet :

The legal minimum tread depth for cars and light trailers (including caravans) up to 3500 kgs gross vehicle weight and/or 8 seated passenger vehicles including driver is:

A minimum of 1.6mm in a continuous band throughout the central three-quarters of the tread width, throughout the whole of the circumference

Might be worth a look.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Might be worth a look.

Agreed, I'll take it to a Kwik-Fit garage after college, and see their views.

Quote from BigDave2967 :

I'll get this back on topic shall I? :P

What is the legal tread of the tyres? I might consider a tyre change altogether.

1.6mm is the minimum legal tread depth.

However even with that amount of tread left you'll notice some shocking wet weather performance. I'd never drive with my own tyres down to 1.6mm, I'd always replace them long before then.

(D'oh, should've refreshed before posting)

Also, tyre choice (manufacturers) and width make a big difference in the wet, if you have stupid ass wide wheels on then your wet weather performance is going to suffer some what, as for manufacturers, I swear by Continental SC2's, just my preference, but I have yet to find a tyre that performs better in all conditions WHILE returning decent tyre life.

Dan,

Quote from danowat :

Also, tyre choice (manufacturers) and width make a big difference in the wet, if you have stupid ass wide wheels on then your wet weather performance is going to suffer some what, as for manufacturers, I swear by Continental SC2's, just my preference, but I have yet to find a tyre that performs better in all conditions WHILE returning decent tyre life.

Dan,

Slightly O/T Dan, but what tyres are you using on the CBR?

Quote from mrfell :

Slightly O/T Dan, but what tyres are you using on the CBR?

When I got it, it had Dunlop D207's on it, and they were shite, was very unstable on fast m'way sections, and was a nightmare in the wet.

I got a set of Michelen (sp) Pilot Road's fitted, and they are brilliant, quick to heat up, great grip in both the dry and the wet.

Dan,

Quote from danowat :

When I got it, it had Dunlop D207's on it, and they were shite, was very unstable on fast m'way sections, and was a nightmare in the wet.

I got a set of Michelen (sp) Pilot Road's fitted, and they are brilliant, quick to heat up, great grip in both the dry and the wet.

Dan,

I tend to get new Michilen tyres for the Astra if the tread is close to the 1.6mm. Just for the fronts anyway.

Quote from danowat :

When I got it, it had Dunlop D207's on it, and they were shite, was very unstable on fast m'way sections, and was a nightmare in the wet.

I got a set of Michelen (sp) Pilot Road's fitted, and they are brilliant, quick to heat up, great grip in both the dry and the wet.

Dan,

Nothing worse than a bike that squirms all over the place whilst crossing white lines!!! My ZX7 was terrible because it was running a 190 rear tyre.

I must admit, I know nothing about different brands of tyres. Especially when Top Gear or other show did a combined dry/wet tyre test. The big name brands weren'y necessarily the best performing tyres in both situations, you almost need to try before you buy as each tyre reacts differently for different cars.

Tyre choice is quite difficult, it's the trial and error method, also different makes seem to work better on different cars.

Sometimes the tyre fitters can recommend, or just get recommendations from those who use the same car.

Dan,

Road cars are setup to understeer by manufacturers because the general public can cope with it better than oversteer. When the surface grip is reduced obviously there will be more understeer. Similarly, in a car set up to oversteer slightly in the dry (like my track Golf) as soon as it rains you end up with savage oversteer because the handling characteristics are magnified by the reduction in grip.

Is it recommended to get new tyres, or reconditioned tyres? Whats the difference between the two?

reconstituted rubber is deadly in the wet. That's the difference.