Hello,
what do you think when you see the heat of the tyres?
what do you think when you see the heat of the tyres?
Tyre Workshop
Ridiculous understeer.
I mean, R4's on the front?
If R3's get too hot, you should maybe try putting the torque split more to the rear. Also, temperature wise, those R4's might work for short races, but the cold tyre air temperature suggests that you will have severe problems on longer stints (read: the tyres will get too cold when they start wearing down). I'd rather try to smooth out the driving technique and adjust the setup, than using harder tyres for fixing temperature problems. Sure, they won't overheat, but the already overly handicapped FXR just loses even more time with them.
I mean, R4's on the front?
If R3's get too hot, you should maybe try putting the torque split more to the rear. Also, temperature wise, those R4's might work for short races, but the cold tyre air temperature suggests that you will have severe problems on longer stints (read: the tyres will get too cold when they start wearing down). I'd rather try to smooth out the driving technique and adjust the setup, than using harder tyres for fixing temperature problems. Sure, they won't overheat, but the already overly handicapped FXR just loses even more time with them.
Thanks for your comment.
Will try it and post the result
PS: how do you see that I have R4's?
Will try it and post the result
PS: how do you see that I have R4's?
R4's have 120° optimum temperature, and the optimum temp is always shown as green. Combining the fact that your display both says 122°C and shows a green contact patch made that clear. Also you have R2's on the rear 
Also you can reduce negative camber a bit, and reduce pressure at the front, increase it a bit at the rear. Maybe add some anti-roll bar at front, and remove some at the rear.
My god, thats hard.
The stupid car is a much more drifting now (back) but I have the torque split allready a bit more at the front.
I guess this will take some time to get back to a good setup and good times
The stupid car is a much more drifting now (back) but I have the torque split allready a bit more at the front.
I guess this will take some time to get back to a good setup and good times
What would be the perfect look from the tyres, where which color?
Rule of thumb: All tyres should heat up rather equally.
For longer races: After ~8-10 minutes of driving the inside of the tyres should be well into the orange. (With "inside" I mean the leftmost part or the contact patch on the right tyre, f.e.) The idea is that the tyre thread will go thinner during the race and it will then produce less heat. Thus in the beginning the tyres should be slightly overheated so they reach their optimum temperature somewhere in the middle of the race and don't drop too far below optimum temperature near the end. In contrast to reality you rather want slightly overheated tyres that slightly underheated tyres. In LFS 5°C below optimum temperature are worse than 5°C above optimum temperature.
If you want the tyres to last as long as possible the inside and middle thread should have equal temperatures. The outside should be slightly below that (~5°C). But LFS tyres last very long since the last patch so on R3s you will propably go for a heat distribution that looks something like inside 5°C hotter than middle and middle 5°C hotter than outside. But this is also a question of setup and preferance. Some people need less camber/more equal heat distribution and other need more camber/less equal heat distribution. Camber is often used to dial in/out oversteer, so there really isn't a "this is the correct way"-rule.
If you go for short races you will rather go for green insides but slightly blue outside. For day-to-day 5 lap races you can adjust the tyre pressures to hold exactly for this amount of laps. You'll want the tyres to be at optimum temperature near 3/4 of the distance.
Remember that the heat of the tyre changes all the time. So f.e. on Ky Nat near the exit of the infield the tyres can go quite orange, but cool down nicely on the oval section. Due to this you will have to make trade-offs. You enter the infield with a few degrees too few, but exit the infield with a few degrees too much ("few" can mean up to 10°C on f.e. the XFR).
And a general note:
The inside of the tyre is more important than the outside thread. You can live with too cold outside thread if the inside thread is at optimum. Optimum temperature at the outside isn't worth overcooked insides.
Vain
For longer races: After ~8-10 minutes of driving the inside of the tyres should be well into the orange. (With "inside" I mean the leftmost part or the contact patch on the right tyre, f.e.) The idea is that the tyre thread will go thinner during the race and it will then produce less heat. Thus in the beginning the tyres should be slightly overheated so they reach their optimum temperature somewhere in the middle of the race and don't drop too far below optimum temperature near the end. In contrast to reality you rather want slightly overheated tyres that slightly underheated tyres. In LFS 5°C below optimum temperature are worse than 5°C above optimum temperature.
If you want the tyres to last as long as possible the inside and middle thread should have equal temperatures. The outside should be slightly below that (~5°C). But LFS tyres last very long since the last patch so on R3s you will propably go for a heat distribution that looks something like inside 5°C hotter than middle and middle 5°C hotter than outside. But this is also a question of setup and preferance. Some people need less camber/more equal heat distribution and other need more camber/less equal heat distribution. Camber is often used to dial in/out oversteer, so there really isn't a "this is the correct way"-rule.
If you go for short races you will rather go for green insides but slightly blue outside. For day-to-day 5 lap races you can adjust the tyre pressures to hold exactly for this amount of laps. You'll want the tyres to be at optimum temperature near 3/4 of the distance.
Remember that the heat of the tyre changes all the time. So f.e. on Ky Nat near the exit of the infield the tyres can go quite orange, but cool down nicely on the oval section. Due to this you will have to make trade-offs. You enter the infield with a few degrees too few, but exit the infield with a few degrees too much ("few" can mean up to 10°C on f.e. the XFR).
And a general note:
The inside of the tyre is more important than the outside thread. You can live with too cold outside thread if the inside thread is at optimum. Optimum temperature at the outside isn't worth overcooked insides.
Vain
Vain thx for your great exploanation
This means that my outside is way to cold and I should put the camber for to the outside.
What you say means that just my front left tyre is "almost" right at temperature. If I take off some pressure it should be OK?!
This means that my outside is way to cold and I should put the camber for to the outside.
What you say means that just my front left tyre is "almost" right at temperature. If I take off some pressure it should be OK?!
All tyres look good except the left front tyre.
The tyre pressure might be off, I can't see that. If tyre pressure on the left front looks sensible (i.e. up to 0.15 bar higher than right front pressure, if I recall correctly) the error might be somewhere else in the setup.
Next time you're racing look out for understeer in the first few laps while the front left is at a good temperature. If you're understeering you should alter the setup. I'm asking that because understeer means excessive scrubbing on the front tyres which leads to excessive heat production.
Solutions:
1. Increase pressure on the left front. This decreases maximum grip, but decreases temperature and gets you closer to optimum temp, which equals more grip. Excessively assymetrical setups feel weird, though.
2. Increase front wing angle. This offers more grip on the front, fights understeer and reduces tyre heat. Of course top speed will suffer from that. On a very neutrally handling car this can lead to oversteer at high speeds.
3. Increase front ARB/decrease rear ARB. This decreases understeer, but also increases oversteer.
4. Increase castor (if possible). This should promote high speed cornering ability. On about all As Nat setups castor is at the maximum.
Be sure to read Bob's setup guide for further actions and explanations.
Vain
The tyre pressure might be off, I can't see that. If tyre pressure on the left front looks sensible (i.e. up to 0.15 bar higher than right front pressure, if I recall correctly) the error might be somewhere else in the setup.
Next time you're racing look out for understeer in the first few laps while the front left is at a good temperature. If you're understeering you should alter the setup. I'm asking that because understeer means excessive scrubbing on the front tyres which leads to excessive heat production.
Solutions:
1. Increase pressure on the left front. This decreases maximum grip, but decreases temperature and gets you closer to optimum temp, which equals more grip. Excessively assymetrical setups feel weird, though.
2. Increase front wing angle. This offers more grip on the front, fights understeer and reduces tyre heat. Of course top speed will suffer from that. On a very neutrally handling car this can lead to oversteer at high speeds.
3. Increase front ARB/decrease rear ARB. This decreases understeer, but also increases oversteer.
4. Increase castor (if possible). This should promote high speed cornering ability. On about all As Nat setups castor is at the maximum.
Be sure to read Bob's setup guide for further actions and explanations.
Vain
are you sure on this? did something change in the setup effects since S1?
yesterday I was solving excessive corner exit oversteer (on the fox) by reducing the rear anti rollbar, according to your suggestion, with this I would have had even more oversteer.
was this only a typo by you, or you really did experience it this way?
as far as I know in all sims more front ARB results in more understeer, more rear ARB results in more oversteer. Also more ARB is used to even out tyre load over the two sides of the car, but I haven't experienced this to be working for me yet.
I think it was a typo. The softer end is that that has more grip, so if you decrease the rear ARB (make it softer) you have more grip at the rear, thus understeer.
i'm curious. what program are you using to see that tire display on screen?
that would help tremendously in determining the life of the tire.
edit:
that was quick as hell trist!
thanks
that would help tremendously in determining the life of the tire.
edit:
that was quick as hell trist!
thanks
Live For Speed.
Press F9
Edit: Yup, 2 minutes. But that's still 5 minutes quicker than you, which is something like 250% faster. Thus YOU are slow and old and stupid.
I suspect I won't be invited back to Vienna again...
Press F9
Edit: Yup, 2 minutes. But that's still 5 minutes quicker than you, which is something like 250% faster. Thus YOU are slow and old and stupid.
I suspect I won't be invited back to Vienna again...Pah, two minutes. He's getting old :P
PS: My goodness. 5000+ posts.
PS: My goodness. 5000+ posts.
what you think guys? too cold I guess 
Yeah, looks like you have too much tyre pressure and/or a too hard compound. On longer races it's completely okay if the tyres overheat for a few laps (green air temperature, orange-ish surface temp), because as soon as the tyres wear down there is less rubber on the tyre, and less rubber means less material that can hold heat/energy. Read: the tyres will cool down as they wear.
With R4 or even R3 tyres you will have severe problems actually keeping the tyres at green temperature on longer races (they will cool down too much). Afaik, most good racers can run even very long races on the softest tyre compound, but if you have problems I'd take R3's at most. Currently in LFS there are no situations where R4 tyres would actually be beneficial.
With R4 or even R3 tyres you will have severe problems actually keeping the tyres at green temperature on longer races (they will cool down too much). Afaik, most good racers can run even very long races on the softest tyre compound, but if you have problems I'd take R3's at most. Currently in LFS there are no situations where R4 tyres would actually be beneficial.
Wow, mega camber you must be running too.
You can easily even out front/rear heating in the FXR by sticking a more appropriate amount of power to the rear, I think I use a torque split of around 23%.
You can easily even out front/rear heating in the FXR by sticking a more appropriate amount of power to the rear, I think I use a torque split of around 23%.
Thx guys.
Is it possible to post a pic how the tyre heat would be look good?
Is it possible to post a pic how the tyre heat would be look good?
In the current version of LFS, by having a stiff front arb and a soft arb, you can have a nice f*cking oversteer under acceleration, and doing the opposite, you obtain understeer in most cases. That is what you can see lots of setups (all?) for FWD similar at what you can expect for a RWD and vice-versa.
illepall . You can still do quite realistic setups, but they always work worse than you can do by usig this "bug".When I use less pressure at the FXR I will slide much more as with more pressure and colder tyres
When I do the same with the FZR I will have better grip with less pressure and hoter tyres.
When I do the same with the FZR I will have better grip with less pressure and hoter tyres.
At lower pressures you do have more grip however it may not feel like that because the amount of slip angle increases meaning you need more steering input to get the same amount of turn. So it 'feels' like there is less grip but actually there is more.
Having said that, if you go ridiculously low on pressure you can have problems over bumps and kerbs and handling can feel very sloppy.
I agree with you on the FZR but not the FXR. I get a lot of understeering and sliding.
Don't forget the FZR is very light at the front compared with the FXR so you can get away with far lower pressures in the front tyres.
guys i have a serious problem
i am hot lapping the ufr on city long and my tyres dont even last 1 lap
its my front right that is giving me trouble it punchers if i try to race the whole LAP
any suggestions
i am hot lapping the ufr on city long and my tyres dont even last 1 lap
its my front right that is giving me trouble it punchers if i try to race the whole LAP
any suggestions
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Tyre Workshop
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