Quote from Blowtus :

Suppose I had a real cockpit setup here - why would it be less realistic to have my monitor setup in place of the windscreen?

Not trying to be a smartass but do you see through dashboard when you sit in your real car, as gabkicks put it. You can disable the wheel so it won't show in-game but the dasboard part is what imho should be visible. And for me it is kinda vital for the immersion

Hmm, so you are using a bonnet view?

EDIT: I want the dashboard to be visible because the speedometer, tachometer and such are there. And the dashboard would be the place where I look at them in real life too. Of course there could be a some kind of button in LFS - when you press a button, the cockpit view turns little bit downwards so you could see the meters but otherwise it would show only the windscreen view - from inside the car

Quote :

As most of us are here for realism and racing immersion, I see no reason to use some "aided views" - take a look at he nascar 2003 sim. Sit in the car and tell me if your view is blocked. Then I tell you that so is the view of real nascar drivers blocked in the same way. Plus they are wearing helmets and are sitting in shaky places so their vision is more "blocked" than a sim racer's view ever will be.

Which is why in NR2003, and in real life NASCAR racing, the drivers rely on spotters to tell them where the other cars are (when the cars are close). I don't think LFS is planning to add spotters, at least not anytime soon.

Quote from JeffR :

Which is why in NR2003, and in real life NASCAR racing, the drivers rely on spotters to tell them where the other cars are (when the cars are close). I don't think LFS is planning to add spotters, at least not anytime soon.

True, but none of the cars in LFS have as "blocked" vision as you have when you sit in a nascar car. Plus the fact that in oval racing the cars are quite to close to each others most of the time. And there is a pitspotter for LFS, even though it is not perfect, it works well (haven't tried it for myself, but I don't drive ovals )

I am just saying that both - real race drivers and sim racers have their pros and cons when they drive by using the cockpit view. And imho they are quite balanced in terms of visibility atm.

I think that the reason the cockpit view is the most realistic one, is because your head in real life would be in that place, you know, my head is not glued to the windshield, or i am sitting on the bonnet, i have to see the dasboard, the wheel, and the hood before i see the road, because that is what you see in the real car. Someone said, what if i make a real cockpit setup, then why wouldn't i put camera at the windshield.. well because it would be unreal, as i said, your head is not at the windshield, there is cockpit, wheel, the sides of the car, the rear view mirrors ahead of you..

Quote from Gunn :

Oh here's another one looking for a fight. Maybe you should learn to read as well. Let's force-feed it too you so you don't make the mistake of misinterpreting people's intentions and then making snide remarks about it.

I've tried to show you some reasons why people prefer cockpit view, I couldn't give a toss what camera you use, it isn't about you. It isn't about me either, it's about debunking the idiotic notion that people who prefer cockpit view feel elitist or better than you in some way because you don't/won't/can't use it. I've tried to show that the reasons for using cockpit view are logical ones, it has nothing to do with who is better than who, no matter how much you want it to be that way.

Convert you? What the hell for? You can't make people change their minds by converting them unless they are weak-willed and naive in the first place. Are you weak-minded and naive? Do you feel a bit of a conversion coming on? Didn't think so. A pissing contest is the last thing I'm interested in, instead I tried to have a discussion (remember what those things are?) but because we really live in a gigantic reality TV show people feel the need to try and vote you off rather than participate in the discussion, it becomes a pissing contest. I refuse to piss with you.

When someone presents a view for you to digest and ponder do you truly think they are making a personal attack on your position? Maybe that's what you want? Insults are so much easier than thoughtful conjecture or passing on actual knowledge. All your post achieves is the perpetuation of the same silly notion that cockpit users feel superior to you. So I guess you missed the point of my original explanation, either that you or you just want a fight.

So go ahead, attach false meanings to people's comments, put words into their mouth that were never said and walk around in a circle kicking yourself in the arse until you're the only one left arguing, arguing about something that wasn't even being discussed in the first place.

I'm done with this topic and I'm just about done with trying to have an intelligent discussion on these forums, it seems that only about ten percent of you have anything at all to say these days.

Ok,
I,m not looking for a fight, in fact the point i was trying to press is that what ever veiw/camera you like is just a personal opinion and makes very little difference to anyone else.

I may not have written my intentions clearly and for that i apologise....

As for the "converting part" all i meant was theres no need to make ppl feel small for there choice of whatever or push ppl to adopt whatever as the given standard,all i,m trying to say how about racing more and whingeing less..

Quote from Boris Lozac :

I think that the reason the cockpit view is the most realistic one, is because your head in real life would be in that place, you know, my head is not glued to the windshield, or i am sitting on the bonnet, i have to see the dasboard, the wheel, and the hood before i see the road, because that is what you see in the real car. Someone said, what if i make a real cockpit setup, then why wouldn't i put camera at the windshield.. well because it would be unreal, as i said, your head is not at the windshield, there is cockpit, wheel, the sides of the car, the rear view mirrors ahead of you..

Well, if I had a real cockpit, and would use screens and the windshield and windows, I would use custom views, not bonnet or roof views...and those views would be placed at the point where they'd be located in the car. Basicly, if there was a way to divide the display into several different areas and to assign them to different screens, we'd have the perfect simulator. But we don't.

new autosimsport magazine is out. they compare they BF1 in lfs to the one in rfactor. i havent read it myself yet. the link they emailed me was wrong... so i had to go directly to the website.

If I just could make my own car into LFS then I would not use rFactor, but at current situation rFactor is only game with decent physics, so that my head won't explode, which I can built my own or any car into.

Most rFactor mods have big faults in physics, but it is not as bad as those mods make it feel, pity that those turn many ppl away from upcoming few really good mods (please don't ask, I'm not allowed to reveal those yet).

But as things are how they are, my time goes with modding rFactor, at least I have learned a lot from car physics and many other things so it can't be that bad.

Oh and I did preorder LFS immediately when it came possible and I'm S3 licensed, so I'm not turned my back to LFS, it just does not offer what I like to have now, only one car that I really like a lot XR GT so it is just getting bit boring after few years...

Quote from richo :

Jesus you guys can get into a hissy fit over anything,how you enjoy your sim of choice is entirely up to you and no matter how many ways you argue the point you will never change or should you change someones opinion on how they enjoy there simming experience...

For me i use bumper cam (1st person for want of a better word) because it suits me and i cant for the life of me see why i should go on a crusade to CONVERT others to my cause

Here you made good sense...

Quote from richo :

Please fellas can we just enjoy the game and leave measuring our e-penis's to another forum...

...and here you just ruined it all with trying to ridicule everybody who ever had an argument.

Perhaps you should take your own advice and not try to convince (whilst taking cheap shots) everybody to use this thread the way you like it. Please can you just enjoy the game and leave measuring your e-penis to another forum...

Quote from Gabkicks :

new autosimsport magazine is out. they compare they BF1 in lfs to the one in rfactor. i havent read it myself yet.

They give the nod to the rFactor BMW-Sauber.

But ASS do love rFactor, so it could never be an unbiased opinion...

Its an interesting read, but the truth is that in both sims the car is not a real simulation, but more something the average sim driver can have fun with.

Understandably!

they pointed out alot of things that rfactor had that lfs didnt. but they didnt point out the things lfs had that rfactor didnt and what lfs did more accuratly.

so... the article didnt bother me, but i thought they could have gone into greater detail...

I don't know, but somehow this "professional" sim-racing community à la autosimsport or rsc gets more and more suspect to me.

Free trips sponsored by SimBin (or blimey or whoever), free prizes and an unbiased GTR 2 test in the autosimsport mag? Yeah, sure... illepall

Edit: Wow, a physics mod for GTR2. So finally no faked grip values?

Edit 2: Now that I've read the ISI vc LFS article: I think they are right about the fact that LFS' damper settings needing some improvements. At the moment it just simulates simple dampers, but not such sophisticated ones like used in GTR and Formula racing. Maybe Scawen can find some time to work on it for a compatible patch.

The conclusion of the article is a bit weird: Choose the rFactor BMW because it has more grip and some lines later they want to tell us that both sims have too much grip??

Quote from Gabkicks :

new autosimsport magazine is out. they compare they BF1 in lfs to the one in rfactor. i havent read it myself yet. the link they emailed me was wrong... so i had to go directly to the website.

Just read that. Pretty pointless article because it basicly only compared the amount of car settings. So the conclusion was rFactor is better because it has more setups choices (except TC). Didn't have any mention about differencies in physics engine, FFB etc.

yes, its like they are afraid of pissing people off. ASS often conflict themselves sometimes on the same page .

Quote from deggis :

Didn't have any mention about differencies in physics engine, FFB etc.

Yeah that is true, LFS has fas superior FF, on the other hand rF has far superior net code (IMO) and graphics.. (in almost everyone's opinion- day night transitions, DX9 affects, etc). Also the sound is another thing where people disagree.

I think its a wash, like most comparisons between the two sims (and others).. it seems where one lacks, the other shines and vice-versa as always.

Quote from BWX232 :

Yeah that is true, LFS has fas superior FF, on the other hand rF has far superior net code (IMO) and graphics.. (in almost everyone's opinion- day night transitions, DX9 affects, etc). Also the sound is another thing where people disagree.

Yeah, the FF in rFactor was beyond my understanding - I tried all the .ini tweaks you had posted on rscnet but still it was weird to the extent of feeling exactly the opposite of what I'd expect it to at times. Also the reliance on FF effects for wheel centering, etc made it feel very alien to say the least.
Even nk namie feels much more natural with almost no tweaks in comparison.

For the sound stuff, check out yamakawa's car sound remixer if you haven't - just adding a drivetrain layer to cars really adds alot to the immersion.

Quote from xaotik :

Yeah, the FF in rFactor was beyond my understanding - I tried all the .ini tweaks you had posted on rscnet but still it was weird to the extent of feeling exactly the opposite of what I'd expect it to at times. Also the reliance on FF effects for wheel centering, etc made it feel very alien to say the least.
Even nk namie feels much more natural with almost no tweaks in comparison.

For the sound stuff, check out yamakawa's car sound remixer if you haven't - just adding a drivetrain layer to cars really adds alot to the immersion.

If you feel exact opposite, then your FFB slider is in wrong end, if it is +100 and feels opposite you need to set to -100 and vice versa.

Imo, LFS FFB is best I have felt if I use Microsoft wheel, but with DFP I'm missing so much, curbs can't be felt always, also there is other forces missing at times, so practically I need two wheels, one for LFS and one for rFactor as Microsoft wheel goes crazy with ISI sims, lol.

example of rF gfx... all things are relative.

http://forum.rscnet.org/showpo ... 3223648&postcount=973
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/373/michaelsuzukazu4.jpg

Edited screenshots don't count as graphics of the game

(you can see the blur mask, among other things)

I only think rFactor's graphics for rendering the car and lighting is a bit better. Their engine is more in par with newer systems, so that is a given.

And you want to tell me that image is 100% ingame and not modified at all? :rolleyes:


My point is, posting photoshopped "screenshots" proves nothing, especially if you want to compare the graphics capabilities of two games.

E: beaten by Tweak :)

not very much PS in that pic.. the game looks basically like that w/o the blurring of the background.

"Basically"
http://img81.imageshack.us/img ... or2006100401372428fy2.jpg
:rolleyes:

Okay, to be fair, we should take a similar scene on a non-sucky track:
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6416/grab001bw5.jpg
Not bad, but miles different than with "a bit PS" applied to it.

Why compare "as good as it gets" to "as good as it gets" from both games? Surely it doesn't look that good all the time like some of the screenies posted for LFS here and there look absolutely spectacular but LFS doesn't look that good all the time.

To me, rFactor has potential to look great, and some mods certainly do look better than LFS. However, I find that most of the time, LFS is more appealing to my eyes... especially on my system.

Just my 2c.