I'm not an oval type of racer as my stats can show but I'd sure like to see a new oval track like the one in the picture. Having to reduce or even take away the accelerator completely sounds like an oval where racing skills are required.
I would definitely race on the new oval regularly.
Why is it that threads about oval tracks always end up in flames going back and forth because the infamous 'oval-haters' have to make absolutely clear we remember their opinion of ovals???
We know, guys... Give it a rest already. You don't like ovals, fine... No need to keep posting the same thing over and over and over again... If you want to start a mature discussion about oval racing, fine, but you should give us something to discuss and not just the standard 'ovals suck'...
And to kill this thread I'll give you a quote from a pretty famous (much loved and hated) former Formula 1 and Champcar driver after his first stockcar race this weekend:
You see here, THIS is why you get such a bad rep.... because you guys cannot take it seriously yourselves. It is "us" that have "no brains", it is "us" that "has no idea what we are talking about", and yet.... you guys say we cannot keep this neutral when you are calling us stupid. You fail to see anything as a suggestion, and laugh at it, play a game of sarcasm, and then just go and say we are idiots/brainless????
Really good guys. Especially the part about attitude and the failure to see your own faults. :up: Not to mention, even considering an opinion as a useful evaluation of how you guys act. But no...... we are "wrong" huh. :rolleyes: So what kind of response do you expect from these kinds of comments?
I can only wonder what kind of reply I will get from you after this post. Probably still a blind & narrow-minded view on how we think. Crazy Harry here still thinks I don't "get it".... but he's never said what I don't understand. I guess he is FM's encylopedia of history. I suppose you guys think I hate the oval so much that I have to write all this, but that isn't the case. I've raced on the oval many times, and on your server. It kind of died off for me because I wish we had a more interesting oval (hence this thread, and my suggestion for a smaller bristol-type oval). But if you want to take 3+ years of experience from online in LFS and say I don't have AT LEAST any fair judgement on how we should have oval racing... then this is just discussion that will never get anywhere.... Afterall, stats is how you judge someone apparently....
You are missing the objectivity.
Let me ask you something:
1. Is this the first oval versus curcuit track discussion?
2. Does this single Thread shows the hole story?
3. Can you speak for everybody else? (oval bashers)
4. When i call SOME of the comments that comes along from your party stupid, does that also means that i think youre a stupid person as well?
5. Check this Thread, it has been marked as "not a serious thread", but what kind of reaction do you expect when some of the bashers give a shit and make this one serious as well?
Everybody is doing misstakes, beeing polite is something that everybody here has to learn. I dont like how i and some of my buddys has responded here but that was not without any reason. The reason is that we try to do it seriously but its useless to defend yourself against someone that dont even want to have a discussion rather then that somekind of shit chat, something to feel better at the end of the day, something or someone to degrade. This is what i see here, and in nearly any other oval related thread. And i fail out of conviction when somebody makes a suggestion like this: "Oval is useless, nobody wants it so it should be removed" or simular stuff.
The way these guys tell us that they dont like the stuff we are doing is responsible for the reaction they get. If they tell us in a polite way there is not a problem at all but thats a rare piece a kind. Telling us in a ignorantly way with the goal to remove everything related to this sooner or later is rubbish so they get the reaction they want, sadly but true. I wish we could work that out in a civilized way but if you dont even get a change theres no reason to start first.
Yes, there always were quite a few comments you name "Oval-Bashing", but they still didn't contained personal insults... Between their posts and the level shown by some of your community is a huge difference...
Tweaker, Shotglass, BBman. You guys are very good in switching things around. You guys should join a court of law. Serously. Or going to some boulevard paper. You all master it to pull out single sentences out of a post and bring your own opinion into it. 10.000 posts are not enough to bring you to a neutral way of thinking. So... it´s useless imo to have conversations with you.
Sarcasm only works if both sides want that. Maybe you forgot.
Maybe you should drop the insulting, personal attacking, ignoring conversation with smileys and the "sarcasm". Seems that everyone who disagrees with you guys is totally wrong and stupid. And you are telling that they don't think neutrally...think how you think, is that neutral? Neutral way of thinking and key elements of having a conversation is not to insult or state your opinnions about other people, does't the old saying "facts argue, not the people" say anything to you. While you are saying they are missing the nautrality, you should think do you have it yourself. And this is not an attack against you or switching word arounds. Im just trying to get a "neutral point of view".
i hate the way that drifters and ovalers react when someone disagrees - if i say T3 ISN'T that hard im an "oval hater", even if i'm not, yet when you say you don't like circuits your not an "circuit hater" you just prefer other tracks
First of all, we didn't turn around anything, we were showing the obvious. Second, you may have marked the most neutral posters in here as "Oval-Haters", which is quite hilarious I think... And third, if you write my nick, at least do it right, thank you...
The point is, that there are allways the same persons that comes along with (mostly) stupid replies. If its just once or maybe twice, its possible thats only stupid comments, but if you see some persons doing this on and on it could makes you think that he may be stupid as well (somehow) but still, thankfully i will never meet em personally, i will never be able to find that out. The insult starts in the way they tell us that they dont like the stuff we are doing (over & over...) and no matter what thread or subject there is, if oval is part of it you will see at least one guy saying oval sucks or simular no matter if it was serious or just sarcasm. And btw, i think on a subject like this, there is no neutrality at all, it was never there and maybe it can be created once, but both parties have to do something and i cant see anything from the bashers trying to go this path. We all (everybody related to this stupid oval discussion) are not innocent. Filtering out some comments here and there to make a statement about whos wrong or not is not very helpful to bring this stuff forward. My goal was allways to find a way to a coincidence but its not possible so i think ill stick to the curcuit tracks & oval, you guys stick to the curcuit tracks and thats it.
I will not reply here again because im done with this boring stuff.
Edit: and thanks Blackout for trying to get a "neutral point of view"
I don't HATE oval - in fact I think I could quite enjoy it in LFS if it was simulated properly (better aero, including close to walls and draft trains), had a decent oval with at least one even slightly difficult corner, and a car meant for ovalling.
I just have a hatred of LFS oval as it stands, partly because (as alluded to above) it's not fully simulated yet to a working standard, but mostly because of the people that oval race. I'm quite good friends with a few members of the drifting community because it was made clear to me that only a minority of drifters are fools, and the majority are nice. The fact they took their community to Torque has only helped them. But the ovallers have not yet proved to have more than 3 nice people (and none of them are German before you start thinking I like you), and it IS the majority that are arrogant stat hunting, ban-happy, racing-is-only-passing-on-the-last-corner-of-lap-8-whilst-setting-drafted-pb's-every-lap.
Once the oval simulation actually makes the oval a challenge (and when, by default, every single new LFS player DOESN'T go there because it's the easiest environment) I will give the oval the respect it deserves. It'll never be as challenging or skillful as circuit racing (F1 drivers kick ass in IRL/Champ most of the time, even crap F1 drivers, but brilliant Champ/IRL drivers can't stay out of the barriers on F1 tracks), but it's style does require a modicum of respect. In time it might make it's own place in LFS, but now it's purely for misfits.
But, as you have recently started to occasionally drive on race tracks you have gone up in my estimations.
And if you don't like my opinions (because that's all they are) then don't read them/reply to them. Easy!
As i have decided to not reply on this thread anymore i think its still necessary to point out some things.
This Forum is not the base to publish or (re)present the so called oval community, theres is none because theres no need for this with only one track right now. Its just a small cut-out and shows nothing about whats going on - on track. You said for yourself that youre not racing the oval so where do you get all these informations?
Why on earth should we prove ourselfes? Because we are people without any skills and racing (also) the oval ? Uhm...thats the only reason i can think of how this stupid idea has come into your head and you know youre wrong in this case dont you? Anyway...
I think youre a arrogant person as well from time to time and you may think the same about me but written words are allways different to what someone is really thinking or would tell besides that there are no emotions, voice pitching or face muscle movements so there are important things missing in this kind of communication which makes it more then once hard to figure out or to interpret how it could be meant or what the actually goal is/ was. Language Barries also can make things even harder to understand or to give a understanding. Even if i would study english there would be a rest of risk that the stuff im telling is somehow wrong, spelled, written and/or meant as it actually should. I hope you understand this just a little bit because i dont translate very much now to save some time for the rest. And im not speaking myself free here from the insults or stuff like this i have made in the past.
I do agree that the oval as we have it right now is not the best piece of a cake but still its part of the game and if your would only try to get into it you will see why we are fighting for it. Personally i dont like to race a F1 car on the oval rather then that i would like to have a stockcar. But still theres a challenge, it provided lots of fun in the past and you have not proved yourself there and i think your comment is a prove for this. You said you will try it once, i hope we can have a neutral review on these discussions one day and have a big lol on this. If not, who cares, theres so much more to discover in lfs so everybody should have the right to do something without having the fear of beeing put into a drawer and condemned in such a superficially way.
I also agree, there are many fools on the oval, even myself act foolish sometimes but tell me a fool-free zone (at all time) in lfs, public servers, not private stuff then ill join there and stay for the rest of my (lfs)- life.
And just a last one to finish this off, please go back when i have started with lfs (lfsworld >online race results>february 04) and you will see, i was racing only at curcuit tracks for more then a year close to two years, and then still after i have discoverd the oval i was not only racing there. Well researched mate
You see? You are even not able to think about oval racing. That´s what I say all the time. You know nothing (NOTHING, ZERO, NADA, NICHTS, NÜSCHDS, RIEN) about oval. Why do you go into a discussion that you simple do not understand?
Maybe one day I'll try ovalling again. I do, now and again, but in private servers with friends, where we are free from idiots and silly insim software. But it also means we're free of a good reference, so perhaps you and I (and maybe some others) could get together on a passworded server and try to convert me, and make me understand what you like about it, because I'm missing it completely.
Maybe one evening of ovals together and I might understand - I might not, and don't put money on it, but I might, and it's worth a try if you want. Not too soon though, as I'm quite busy. How old are you btw? Because you're always on the Junkies server! (not meant rudely or belittlingly, just a passing comment).
Edit @ Crazy Harry (one person I would not be willing to learn ovals with! 510N3D is much more mature!): To set a draft pb do the following (I can't believe I need to explain this to you): Follow someone, and draft past them. Then let them pass you without costing you any time, then redraft them and repass. Net result: pb lap, but no net position gain. In short you aren't actually racing them, but driving with them. Only on the last turn do you want to not be first.
You see? You are not even able to think about words.
^^ See that - my 'sum up' is as good as yours. You made it up. From one sentence you didn't read you somehow decide I know nothing about nothing? That's very mature. At least I can have a conversation with other people (including 510N3D) without starting a total flame war. You just have no common sense or maturity. Are you actually 11? Why speak/type in a language you cannot actually understand? If you READ my posts (use a dictionary if it helps) then you'll see a certain amount of home truths.
You know, some people imho are even not worth to make a serioius discussion with. People like you. You understand? BTW, I´m 31 and I really don´t care what you think about me. Clear mate?
I read so much (sorry) shit from you (hotlapping position, oval opinions, aso) that I can clearly see what kind of person you are.
You do care, otherwise you won't reply or get upset by it And I'm not worth getting into a conversation with because I hold my ground, argue my opinions and don't roll over so easily? You must have some wicked conversations with people!
People like you are the very reason the oval and your server has the reputation that it has. Why not just accept that and stop pointing the finger at everyone other than yourself!
Well i tried to explain what i like on the oval a while ago and after doing this i realized that it still cant describe half of the passion i have got for it. All i cant say now is this, you can just drive a car and you can drive and feel the car, feel the race groove & flow, every single tire, the suspension, feel how you gain grip with more and more heat inside the tires and with less fuel on board.
And having this with other people that can feel the game in the same way is just impressive. A quick example is drafting failure or harry and many more people from or fragmaster or not, its just a outstanding feeling when you can push more and more and you can be sure this will not end till someone is doing a misstake or a backmarker is blocking the line.
This is somthing that youll never have on a curcuit track, maybe if theres a really long straight where you can push for more then 10 seconds or so at topspeed. This is what i call a serious hunt for a draft pb.
I think its important to be on a server and make it visible in the list. Im not allways there, failure beats me on this but you know the point im going for. Nobody, maybe some, joins a empty server and wait for some people to join. We do, sometimes we just hotlap, improve the setups or we are just afk while having the game running.
Last one: If there were a face-to-face conversation between you and me, tc, I would say "I don´t care what you think" or maybe - if I gets angry "F**k you and get lost". But this is a public forum and I simple feel like havig to explain to other readers that oval racing is NOT that easy like some guys who don´t know about say it is. For myself it´s impossible to sort the ages of posters just by reading there posts. IMHO it´s simply impossible to get into people just by knowing them through a forum.
IRL I´m a salesman, known by clients and work-mates as a very fair and helpful guy. The same goes to my ventrilo buddies. Sure, I´m a guy with a very wide open mouth. But true and straight opinions come out of it. Be sure about that. I don´t like people that never lead and only follow. I don´t like that kind of "Yes-men" you see in forums all around the www. I´m not here to make friends or raise my ego. I have opinions about things that are interesting for me. Like i sayed many times before I never go to threads that are not interesting for me and post my opinions AGAINST it. Waste of time. But some of you do, so I have to make my statements clear for all the other readers. But it makes me happy that people think I´m younger. Thank you for that.
This bit for 510N3D
But I enjoy circuit racing because I can feel the car, feel the groove, feel each tyre, the suspension, feel how the grip changes with heat and fuel loads, and the feeling of racing close with people who I know aren't going to make a mistake (often ).
On the ovals I just feel like I press the throttle and turn a bit, waiting for something to happen.
Having said that, early in S2 I enjoyed a long oval race in FZR's (200 laps or something), as you had to lift, and modulate the throttle a bit, and knowing that two abreast at times wasn't possible. That was much more fun than ANY BF1 race for me. As I say, with the right car, the right oval(s) and the right aero stuff it would be brilliant, but Kyoto is crap, the BF1 is boring as hell, a lot of the oval community (which unfortunatley either means or reflects on FM) are horrid, and I get no joy out of simply going fast.
As I always say - Anyone, including Stephen Hawking (just) can press the right hand pedal all the way. The skill lies in knowing when to lift, brake, modulate, accelerate, which is why I will ALWAYS favour slower/more technical corners than flat out oval ones.
But I'm liking the fact that we are having a sensible discussion 510N3D, and not just a flame war. I WILL try to visit your server one day, but only when it's quiet. I think a lot of noobs/newbies would put me off no matter what you say!
This bit for Harry
I only post in threads that I find interesting. But maybe I find them interesting BECAUSE they offer a different opinion, and I'm always happy to have a sensible discussion with people with different opinions. I'm not only going to type in threads I agree with - that would be dull! Unfortunately, a lot of people think I am just being arkward, but you'll find I always (initially) put forward WHY I think something, and am prepared for that to be discussed. Then it turns to flame wars, and smack me with a kipper if I'm going to let a flame-war-starter change my opinion on something. You lose by acting 11 (maybe 12). 510N3D wins by being adult.
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