Quote from frokki :

Reputation and user amounts of the game would grow, yeah, but the level of online races would drop dramatically.
I'd bet youre faster's alter ego...

why? whats the point ?

i guess there'd be less online activity, but not for long imo.. cause people play LFS to race, and racing offline isn't too exciting in the long run..

but like me, i think, there are a lot of people who DO care about what the car looks like.. i can't be alone on being a car fanatic?

and does RL physics have to come at the cost of beautiful cars?

definetly no, physics are already improving,there is no releation.

i don't think you got my point.. is it retorical it's called?

sorry i couldnt find the meaning of "retorical " in my dictionary, bad english sorry.

Probably because it's "rhetorical" isn't it?

and if the cars are lookalikes only, people can't complain about what acts correct or not compared to RL!

like a old e30 m3 racer, how fancy wouldn't that be? or as it could be named in LFS: XR M (s38b36 anyone?) [/quote]

The fact is that ignoring how the real car lookalike is based on behaves will NOT aid realism. I thought LFS is supposed to be a simulation, not an arcade game, so why should we expect to get anything less than behavior close to the real thing? Isn't the whole point of a simulation to closely approximate RL behavior? Unless of course LFS's moniker as the ultimate racing sim is just that, a moniker, with no sustance to back it up.

I don't mind small tweaks to parameters like power and absolute weight to balance the cars in a class somewhat. In fact, the TBO and GTR classess need quite a few changes to get a reasonably level field. But to have engines and handling that doesn't come close to the real thing with a similiar setup is simply wrong. But with the current aero and turbo models, we are still unable to generate fully realistic engine(for turbo cars) and handling(for downforce cars) yet. I'm just surprised why those 2 major issues haven't really had a mention for so many months after the release of patch U. I understand that the aero issue takes time as it's complicated, but the turbo issue is really OLD and has so far received no attention at all.

As for licensing cars, it's already been done on 2 cars (RA and BF1). If there's no intention to mimic the behavior of the real car very closely, than don't bother.

Quote from Jamexing :

The fact is that ignoring how the real car lookalike is based on behaves will NOT aid realism. I thought LFS is supposed to be a simulation, not an arcade game, so why should we expect to get anything less than behavior close to the real thing? Isn't the whole point of a simulation to closely approximate RL behavior? Unless of course LFS's moniker as the ultimate racing sim is just that, a moniker, with no sustance to back it up.

You don't need real cars, or real car performances to make LFS a simulation. What you need is for the variables and values in LFS to give the right performance that you'd get in real life.

I could not care less if the UF1 is too fast (compared to a mini), or the RB4 too heavy (compared to a 4WD thing), as long as the car behaves as it should (i.e. like a faster mini or a heavier 4WD thing).

Real cars will detract from the game. Look at all the nincompoops here since the Sauber was released. I'd much rather have had a generic F1 car and kept those 'I love car games with real cars in it' away.

Quote from tristancliffe :

You don't need real cars, or real car performances to make LFS a simulation. What you need is for the variables and values in LFS to give the right performance that you'd get in real life.

exactly what i was thinking!

it doesn't have to be a factory model.. it could be a similar chassis with a bigger engine/more power..

i wouldn't mind real cars in LFS, but since licensing is going to keep that from happening, i'll settle for the next best thing..

Quote from Jamexing :

Unless of course LFS's moniker as the ultimate racing sim is just that, a moniker, with no sustance to back it up.

LFS doesn't use this moniker. It also doesn't claim to be a simulation of anything. "Online Racing Simulator" is LFS' moniker.

Quote from tristancliffe :

You don't need real cars, or real car performances to make LFS a simulation. What you need is for the variables and values in LFS to give the right performance that you'd get in real life.

I could not care less if the UF1 is too fast (compared to a mini), or the RB4 too heavy (compared to a 4WD thing), as long as the car behaves as it should (i.e. like a faster mini or a heavier 4WD thing).

Real cars will detract from the game. Look at all the nincompoops here since the Sauber was released. I'd much rather have had a generic F1 car and kept those 'I love car games with real cars in it' away.

I fully agree that we don't really need real car names, but isn't it obvious that a few cars already in LFS are ALREADY very close copies of the real things? Might as well let their engines perform like the real thing. We don't need to match the real thing exactly, but shouldn't we try to make it behave very closely to the real car? Or do we need to redefine the word "SIMULATOR"?

The RB4 isn't really too heavy. I'm fine with its weight as long as it's current weight remains unchanged. It just needs proper turbo behavior and a better powerband along with a minor increase in power. I won't agree to anything more than 250hp, since anything more won't help balance the TBO cars or make the racing better.

No, the UF1 doesn't feel too off. lack of weight does make p for the tiny engine. It'll be so much more fun if it had a proper LSD though it's wasn't available OEM, so it's just a fun option. Well, they're already running adjustable dampers anyway. It's fine as it is for now.

My real concern isn't to get all the brand names, it's to get all the car physics as perfected as a PC racing simulation technically could. The BF1 is great, but I'll rather trade it for significantly better turbo and aero models.

However, one point stands. If real cars are really implemented, they should definitely handle as close to the real thing as possible. IRL, cars such as the BF1 are very aerodynamically sensitive, and the current aero simply isn't adequate to make it run as close to the real thing as possible.

ATM, only lacks dynamic toe to simulate multilink suspensions and a live axle simulation. Otherwise, LFS already has a very comprehensive simulation of almost all major suspension types.

Again, as I've already said, I'll trade a real brand name car for more perfected physics anytime. Those real cars or very close clones of real cars must behave as close to the real thing as possible.

First get the physics sorted, then get real cars.
You can't tell me real sequential gearboxes work like that. Or that real limited slip differentials all work like the LFS one (hint: there are several types of LSD diffs in reality, each with different characteristics).
We don't even have correct clipping and you're already talking about licensed cars?

Vain

Quote from Vain :

First get the physics sorted, then get real cars.
You can't tell me real sequential gearboxes work like that. Or that real limited slip differentials all work like the LFS one (hint: there are several types of LSD diffs in reality, each with different characteristics).
We don't even have correct clipping and you're already talking about licensed cars?

Vain

Agreed. First priority is sorting the physics, but the real cars already in such as the RA should be made to perform as closley to the real thing as possible. We don't really need more real cars until the physics are done.

the cars can be modeled and setup by outsiders, so i don't really see lack of physics as an excuse for not having more cars..

but i guess you 1000+ posters have else to say...

More cars? Yes.
Licensed cars that handle nothing like their real life counterparts because LFS's physics engine isn't up to the task? No.

Vain

Quote from Vain :

More cars? Yes.
Licensed cars that handle nothing like their real life counterparts because LFS's physics engine isn't up to the task? No.

Vain

Absoultely Agree.

Quote from keltern :

and does RL physics have to come at the cost of beautiful cars?

Thanks to big corporations that have enough money to buy all the licenses they want, stick in all the cool eyecandy, and the ability to release new versions of the same software in a new package about twice a year, yes...

Those corporations care not about racing but about making money. Truth is, the learning curve for RL physics and driving at the limit is too high to make it profitable. People simply will not learn to drive it to the game's potential before a new version is forced on you. Which means they can't release newer version as fast as they are doing now, which means they make less money. Not to mention the fact that the market for RL physics isn't that big... There are not too many people interested in hardcore simulators, yet millions of people enjoy jumping into a car and throw it through neon-lit streets.

The only ones making simulators we enjoy are the small 'indie' companies like Scavier (or whatever we'll call them now), and the occasional 'former big shot studio turned indie' (like iRacing). Generally, those companies don't have the money (and definitely don't make the profit) to acquire expensive licenses.

One way to get around the licensing issue is by allowing modding, but LFS at its current stage is not ready for that by a long shot.

i agree.. but i'd like to hear a devs opinion on the initial post anyway!

because real cars ingame doesn't have to be expensive, as i mentioned with Tokyo Extreme Racing.. HUGE amount of real cars, but no factory names or licenses.. don't know if the same goes for LFS though, if someone (read: the devs) was going to implement more cars!

the reason i play around with LFS, is that it's closer to RL "everything" than any other game i know of.. that's why i'm so keen on having more cars.. actually, what i crave for, is a Gatebil version of LFS!

dunno if you've heard of Gatebil (translates into streetcars), buts it's one of, if not the biggest gathering of car enthusiasts in northern europe, atleast in scandinavia (don't know if this is correct though, PR said so.. anyways..) i just wanted to post a few videos, so you can see what i would use LFS for, if it was possible.. (no way it will ever happen, but one can dream.. right?)

here are a few: Gatebil Rudskogen July 2006 - Gatebil September 2004 - Gatebil 2005: 1033bhp E34 (i guess a few people have noticed that i'm extremely fascinated by this car, and it's engine )

and another one.. quite a mix of cars! hehe! Gatebil 201m drag 2006 be sure to catch a glimps of the old dark audi 80 it's MAAD (also contains footage of the Norris evo)

you might recognize the green monster evo from Norris Design! it's a piece of art imo..

this is just to give you an idea of what i want to use LFS for... messing around and having fun!

i'm not too much into racing, atleast not like a few users on this forum.. as they're way more "puristic" than i am!

btw, i've already prepared myself for the flaming..