Well, obviously, as many of you have noticed, the formula on the stangings page this season was pretty heavily flawed. Maybe some of you have good ideas for how to do it the next season....

I find that the simpler it is the better, heres what i would go with...

If it were a 10 event season again heres how it would go...
(Total number of points)-(number of points for two worst events)-10x(number of events missed)

That way you could still miss that crucial one race when your brother in law had his wedding and not get any major penalties. The -10 points will be deducted for every missed race so that anyone who actually DOES show up for every race will have a small advantage over someone who didnt.

Oh, and im all for -100 points for anyone saying theyll show up for a race and then not coming

Oh, and one more thing... By these calculations Prophet would still have won Ruditurbo this season, by 4 points And only because prophet showed up for all races and ruditurbo missed one(But he could still have made up for it if he were a better driver!).


My 5 cents
dev

Problem is, that it would be nice to see correct standings during the season. I don't have a valid suggestion at this point and I'm not completely aware how the score was calculated this season.

I'd just say, that what's wrong with - for example if season has 10 events - dropping two non-negative scores from overall score? That way DNSH would lead to punishment and skipping two events would be possible without penalty to overall scores.

Just a thought, might even be an old one.

For those of you who don't understand the current rules: this is how I believe it works. I have got the same points as in the standings so I believe it is correct
The formula uses 3 items defined as follows:

a) races finished
This is, by my understanding, the amount of races that you turn up for and race in, regardless of whether you finish or not. DNSHs do not count towards this, only finishes and DNF.

b) total races - 20%
This is the total number of races - 20% of the races. In the case of 10 races, this means 8 races.

c) total points
This is the total points you have accrued across all the races - the lowest scores from 20% of the races. In the case of 10 races this means 2 worst events.

The formula then is a/b*c (a divided by b multiplied by c)

So, let’s say for example that you have scored 1055 (as per RudiTurbo) and he has missed one race the figures are as follows:

a = 9
b = 8
c = 943 (which is 1055 minus his two lowest events Event 4=0, Event 6=112)

Using the formula we get 9 divided by 8 equals 1.125 then multiply this by 943 equals 1060.875 which is rounded up to 1060.9 (which is the score Rudi got!)

For myself the numbers are

a = 8
b = 8
c = 553

So here I get 8/8 = 1 * 553 = 553!

I hope this clears it up for you all, and if I am wrong please correct me. (I don't think I am!)

Tim

I really dont have a clue why the hell there would be need to punish a person, who misses a race, missing the race and not getting a good result from there is already a disadvantage.
Just look at how the Endurance League used to do it, perfect system.

Atm, dropping the 2 scores has ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE, because dropping the 2 results was only ever thought of, to help the ppl who simply cant attend to all races.

I am so pissed off at this, cant see how any League staff can be so silly, I took 60% podiums this Season, with missing 1 race it makes my result even better in my eyes, coulda been 70% , but no, I'm a sinner cause I decided to choose to go to Estonian Championships in swimming and sports camp after that, I'm a bad person and have to be penalised with gazillion pts illepall

We'll have no trouble here.


Right then....!

Yes there we're problems with the points system, and yes they are going to be changed for next season. But you must realise we can't change last seasons points now.

Personally I believe we should have no formulae this season, it is my belief that you'll score zero for missing a race and that is fair punishment, seeing as theoritcally you could've scored 100, so in effect, by missing a race, you have lost 100 points for 100% sure, as you're not taking part and have you chance at that 100 points.

I also believe we could scrap the drop two worst races option, as this too I believe does not work.

I HAVE FOUND THE MAJOR FLAW IN THE SYSTEM.

For example. If a racer won all 10 races at 100 points each he still would lose 200 points, so instead of 1000 his total would be 800.

But if the driver behind scored 2nd place in every race scoring 99 points in all 10 races, he would score 999 for the season and lose 198 points if two events were dropped.
But his final score would be 801 and he would win the championship.

See the problem, just losing two events is not a relative deduction, if we are going to drop points, it should be a fair percentage rather than just events.

lol Russ, Your mathematics is a tad poor.

If someone comes 2nd in 10 races, he gets 10 times 99 pts, he gets 990 pts, 2 events lost - 198 ) 792.

He is as 2nd as it gets.

And anyway giving 100 to winner and 99 to 2nd place is too little gap, a win should be given a bigger gap.

In F1 for an example, if You get a 0, it's not a 100 pnt loss, You can still make it up during the season.

Well I didn't say I was good at Maths did I?

Maybe its time for a quick poll and go with the majority!

Choices could be:

1. Same as it is.
2. Same as it is but with no penalty for missing 20% of races. Penalty starts if you miss more than 20%.
3. Straight points system with no complex calculations (just add 'em up).
4. Something else (if anyone can think of something).

Any body up for creating the poll, perhaps it should be staff?

Tim

I think it has been stated before that OLFSL is not a democracy and doesn't work like that.

hmmm, good point

Quote from Julppu :

I'd just say, that what's wrong with - for example if season has 10 events - dropping two non-negative scores from overall score? That way DNSH would lead to punishment and skipping two events would be possible without penalty to overall scores.

Just a thought, might even be an old one.

that's how it was previous season.. and IMHO that's much better than current system.. keep it plain and simple

Quote from Tukko :

.. keep it plain and simple

Quite. I think the following are all needed in a new points system:

1. Simple points system - score points in a race, and they all count towards championship

2. No end-of-season points juggling - what you see is what you get, so that you can see where you are in the championship all the way through the season

3. Standard grid sizes - it's frustrating to try to get into a higher pool with more points potential, then find you're not in that pool because the grid sizes were smaller for that event (perhaps need a standard grid size, but increase by 1 or 2 from the first pool downwards if the slowest pool has too few drivers) - at least make the rules for calculating the grid sizes known

Hope this helps

IMHO (and my opinion is the one that counts!!! ) the 20% allowed missed races is a MUST in an online game like this... Not only because you sometimes just cant show up... but there are plenty of times when something totally unexpected happens(Lag, some idiot ramming you out for fun... etc). I do understand that EVERYONE has a chance of that happening but at only 10 races per season it will not even out. So we use the 20% rule to even it out for the most part so the disadvantages of online gaming will not show so badly...

Secondly, if we get 100 points per event versus 10 points in F1 we would have to have 10 times more races to allow you to have one engine failure for the whole season... that is just NOT good for anyone... more luck, and noone driving at the top level wants ANYTHING to do with luck, because luck is a factor that is NOT up to you.(I can understand some of the lesser drivers wanting as much luck as possible ofcourse ).

And about the "voting".... i actually have stated this multiple times before... peaople in masses are just plain stupid most of the time. It works much better if everyone just gives theyr ideas and then the people who actually think things through will make the decision.

And let me explain a little more why this 20% rule is so important to some.... the ones racing for the championship normally. Because they are the ones who suffer the most from these unforseen accidents. Anyone racing for the 100th place will not care even half as much about this topic as it wont really change the fun part of racing here for him.

Oh, and to make things simpler so we wouldnt need some ridiculously complicated formula for the 20% rule... instead we should just announce before every season how many worst results will be deducted from the final standings. That way everyone can follow the results and possible final standings easily. And perhaps make a rule... that for every 5th race we will allow 1 worst event to be removed. So in a 4 event season we will have NO worst event removed, in a 5 event season there will be ONE worst result removed, in a 9 event season there will still be only ONE worst result removed.... For 10 to 14 events there will be TWO worst results removed.... etc.

Sorry for my scattered posts... doing this at work inbetween... errr... well... working

Quote from RudiTurbo :

I really dont have a clue why the hell there would be need to punish a person, who misses a race, missing the race and not getting a good result from there is already a disadvantage.
Just look at how the Endurance League used to do it, perfect system.

Atm, dropping the 2 scores has ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE, because dropping the 2 results was only ever thought of, to help the ppl who simply cant attend to all races.

I am so pissed off at this, cant see how any League staff can be so silly, I took 60% podiums this Season, with missing 1 race it makes my result even better in my eyes, coulda been 70% , but no, I'm a sinner cause I decided to choose to go to Estonian Championships in swimming and sports camp after that, I'm a bad person and have to be penalised with gazillion pts illepall

Yeah.. First you want a rewarding point system and when we TRY to give you that you call us silly and complain about everything. Would it be possible to decide what you want?

Tbh this sounds like you're only happy when the point system makes you the winner.. Participating or not.. We all have a life you know!

You're not the only one who is pissed, believe me! Instead of complaining, could you maybe create a new formula for us? Then you'd get what you want and you could only blame yourself if it doesn't work. We try but testing is the only way to do this imo.

So many ideas, so many opinions...I dunno!

We'll never please anyone anyway...maybe keeping it roughly the same is best for arguments sake, as at least the complaints will stay the same, if we change it, then people will complain about something different lol.

Oh well, good luck to whoever in the OLFSL staff is deciding about the points, glad it's not me!

Here comes my suggestion:

sum(results).

In the past season there were more than 20 drivers participating in every event. OLFSL has the word 'League' in its name. In a league, participating _is_ part of the game, typically. If you don't, you _have_ to live with it.

Quote from Mrs FienDi :

Yeah.. First you want a rewarding point system and when we TRY to give you that you call us silly and complain about everything. Would it be possible to decide what you want?

Tbh this sounds like you're only happy when the point system makes you the winner.. Participating or not.. We all have a life you know!

You're not the only one who is pissed, believe me! Instead of complaining, could you maybe create a new formula for us? Then you'd get what you want and you could only blame yourself if it doesn't work. We try but testing is the only way to do this imo.

Because a real scoring system is supposed to reflect who is the best driver trough the season not who is the biggest participator.

I just know that I was better than prophet this season and I'm 100 pts behind him, that's what bothers me.

DevilEST explained it all damn well and that is how it is supposed to be.
I was the one who suffered this time, while knowing troughout the season 2 worst results will be excluded in the end, why is my 0 kept? arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Also as You see, the Championship was very interesting this way, prophet is gazillion pts in front of all, cause he is the only top driver to come to all the GP's.
What if he also had some funeral suddenly or smthn and lastpunisher missed 1 too and I would've had one crappier race, the Champion would be MJanosh? The guy who drove the whole season at the back of pool1? Champion??????

Sry for all the ppl named in my post, nothing personal, just giving examples.

Quote from RudiTurbo :

I was the one who suffered this time, while knowing troughout the season 2 worst results will be excluded in the end, why is my 0 kept? arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Hi Rudi,

I understand your frustration, but your 0 was dropped as one of your lowest results. I know this is not going to help you, but let me explain the scoring system so you can understand why the results are as they are.

Firstly, the top 3 scored points over the entire season as follows:

cyber|prophet: 1103
1st >> lastpunisher: 998
OCR|RudiTurbo: 1055

This includes all points from all 10 races.

Then the two worst events are dropped and this gives:

cyber|prophet: 937
1st >> lastpunisher: 892
OCR|RudiTurbo: 943

Now the last thing that happens is the attendance formula, this is the number of races attended divided by the total number of races - 2. This gives us the following for each of you:

cyber|prophet: 10/8 = 1.25
1st >> lastpunisher: 10/8 = 1.25
OCR|RudiTurbo: 9/8 = 1.125

This number is then multiplied by your points as follows:

cyber|prophet: 937 * 1.25 = 1171.3
1st >> lastpunisher: 892 * 1.25 = 1115
OCR|RudiTurbo: 943 * 1.125 = 1060.9

I know this doesn't make it all better, but hopefully you can see how it works and we can all understand how it can be made better in future.

Please don't think I am having a go at anyone, I just want everybody to see what has happened, hopefully we can learn from it and make next season even better.

Thanks

Tim

(ps if anyone followed that, well done! )

I think he understands that Funny thing is that if he had hired a 8-year-old to attend for him and get DNF from the last pool he had won the championship.

Quote from Blackout :

I think he understands that

Oh dear, I seem to have lost my mind - I posted all that yesterday illepall illepall illepall

I am going to shut up now

"What you see is what you have" would be nice through the season, since why bother publishing the points until the end otherwise? Current formula works if - in my opinion - the multiplier is capped into 1.0 and somehow current "true" overall score is shown after every race.

But hey, I'll race whatever the scoring system is (as long as I can beat Russ in the overall scores ). Just wanted to let my opinion be known.

Quote from Blackout :

I think he understands that Funny thing is that if he had hired a 8-year-old to attend for him and get DNF from the last pool he had won the championship.

That is also true lol heh
In fact I could've let him drive in 2 races even and win the Championship.

Quote from russraine :

I HAVE FOUND THE MAJOR FLAW IN THE SYSTEM.

For example. If a racer won all 10 races at 100 points each he still would lose 200 points, so instead of 1000 his total would be 800.

But if the driver behind scored 2nd place in every race scoring 99 points in all 10 races, he would score 999 for the season and lose 198 points if two events were dropped.
But his final score would be 801 and he would win the championship.

This is nothing personal, I've never spoken to you before ... but that is the stupidest thing that I have ever read on these forums.

You dont read much here, do you?