I installed the LFS demo six days ago, bought the S2 licence two days afterward, got my first ever steering wheel another day later - obviously the first thing I need is more patience and a lot more practice. :P

But still - I've been watching all those guys at the Redline Racing server pulling 1.08's in their FOXes at BL GP and their cars seem to be so incredibly stable, while my own ride is a mean bitch of a car, with a back end that's most happy while it is overtaking my front end. However: Some of the race-winner types were so nice and shared their setup, yet with those the car usually gets worse than unstable and I can't manage to tip-toe it through corner one at 80 km/h while they never go below 95 km/h even at the very apex. My own pb currently is a 1.10.49 and I'm nowhere near doing that consistently, even with my own, very forgiving setup (based on one of Bob Smith's "Easy Race" setups - mad props to Bob for making those).

The reason I'm posting at all is that tonight at RR's I saw someone doing 1.08s and winning races using keyboard control, sliding and coasting all over the place - now I really wonder if I'm perhaps just missing something terribly obvious here.

Quote from cybasheep :

I installed the LFS demo six days ago, bought the S2 licence two days afterward, got my first ever steering wheel another day later - obviously the first thing I need is more patience and a lot more practice. :P

But still - I've been watching all those guys at the Redline Racing server pulling 1.08's in their FOXes at BL GP and their cars seem to be so incredibly stable, while my own ride is a mean bitch of a car, with a back end that's most happy while it is overtaking my front end. However: Some of the race-winner types were so nice and shared their setup, yet with those the car usually gets worse than unstable and I can't manage to tip-toe it through corner one at 80 km/h while they never go below 95 km/h even at the very apex. My own pb currently is a 1.10.49 and I'm nowhere near doing that consistently, even with my own, very forgiving setup (based on one of Bob Smith's "Easy Race" setups - mad props to Bob for making those).

The reason I'm posting at all is that tonight at RR's I saw someone doing 1.08s and winning races using keyboard control, sliding and coasting all over the place - now I really wonder if I'm perhaps just missing something terribly obvious here.

well, i only got a 1:08.76 - but here is a GREAT setup, the REALLY quick ones are terribly unstable, this one is very stable - enjoy!

Post a replay of you trying to do some fast laps (or your fastest lap rather).

Chances are, you have the common problem of slamming the brakes and trying to turn, or are just a bit too violent with the throttle. The FOX is pretty easy to drive, and pretty stable, so there has to be some kind of control habit you have that makes it lose it so easily. Perhaps your steering is too sensitive, or something else is causing it.

And you just got a steering wheel, and that takes some time getting used to and understanding how useful it is in LFS. Don't expect to get a 1:08 right away, it will not happen. It takes some time learning what you need to do, and then once you have a clear memory of how a lap should be done, being consistent while going fast is the greatest skill to learn.... but that skill is based on how much you practice and "know" the car. Learning is everything.

What those guys said up there ^ and also, notice Tweak's and my join dates. I'm around a year and a half, Tweak has been racing LFS since 2003. LFS is very realistic, more realistic than just about every other racing sim/game out there. It takes a long time to learn the track and the handling to where you are able to put the car in any situation you want, on purpose.

Those guys at Redline drive like that because they have had the "training" on driving the cars like that. The training comes from practice, as Tweak has said. It takes finess and precise control of the brake pedal, throttle pedal and steering. An oversteering car is fast. But it takes that practice to be able to consistantly drive with that oversteer rather than just having the front and back ends swap positions. The majority of the setups you recieve from folks in the servers are more than likely going to be very loose (oversteer). You definitely did good with downloading the easy race setups. I would just use those for a bit while learning the cars and tracks. Once you know the tracks very well, you can start tweaking on the setup as you will know and understand what you like as for driving style and how you'd like the car to react around the track.

One hint for driving a car with a lot of oversteer, you learn to steer with the throttle. Something I still find very hard to do. I still want to turn the steering wheel. You turn into the corner with the steering, but as you exit, you straighten the wheel while applying throttle which rotates the rear end of the car steering it around the corner. I'm thinking this is 99% of the reason most folks swap ends when hitting from the apex to the corner exit. I know it is why after almost two years, I still swap ends and a reason I am not one of the ultra fastest racers (like Tweak is ).

And, welcome to LFS. Live for speed, because you won't be living for anything else for a long time .

Quote from Tweaker :

There has to be some kind of control habit you have that makes it lose it so easily. Perhaps your steering is too sensitive, or something else is causing it.

Yes, I was wondering if there was a 'something else' I hadn't considered yet. I looked at the replay of the current WR for the FOX on BL gp, both in the game and in AnalyzeForSpeed, and what the driver does, in Turn One, exactly is slamming the brakes (for some 25 meters), already slightly turning right while doing so, then applies half-throttle just before the apex and full throttle just after - without any sort of smooth transition at all, at least not within the resolution of the data log. I can't really get the power on through these corners with confidence at all, the car always wants to oversteer unless the tires are at absolutely optimum temperature.

Admittedly, that lap is just as outstanding wrt the driving as to the final lap time - I looked at a few more in the top ten and there's somewhat smoother pedal work in these, more similar to how I (have to) drive - just at roughly 10-20 km/h more through each turn.

I'll upload some 'hot'laps of mine later (way too late tonight to drive some more) and will try your setup, too, Jakg!

alot of the trouble- besides breaking points- lots of time to be found there and applying to threashold- before lockup, is turn in.
placing the car at apex does not mean you arrived there the same way.
turn in point (as you stated cyba sheep) is when you start going towards the apex.
as the driver you watched salmmed on the brakess and started turning slightly that's part of it. when he started the turn to aim the car just right.
now set ups do have alot to do with driving style, but in a world like LFS where everything would be the exact same, the driving style should be pretty near the same to go as fast in the same place. this is not to say there is more than one way to skin a cat.
I had a race at westhill, in the FO8 and we all race 1:26.xx with my speed being just the average and cathcing up in places other would slow down too much, and some place i would be left in the dust only to catch up later. We all were within .5 secs of each other till the end. 4 cars and very dicey- quite scary doing it.
different set ups different styles same times-
so copying some one when you are not that type of driver might not work for you. after years of driving (since s1) i am still no WR setter, but i never come in last anymore (i don't drive every night either- N2K3 needs love, and F1C and GTL, and CounterStrike and Day of Defeat, and Spirit of heat..)

Quote from Jakg :

well, i only got a 1:08.76 - but here is a GREAT setup, the REALLY quick ones are terribly unstable, this one is very stable - enjoy!

It sure is a great setup, but I'm still too daft to manage better than 1.10 . At least I think I know what my problem is though - I generally turn in too late and pull on the wheel too much, thus go into the corner in an awful radius, not hitting the apex right, losing an awful lot of speed during drifting and ruining my tyres to boot. Maybe in a month from now ...

The FOX needs to be pushed a bit to be stable. While the car is somewhere near it's limit it's very stable and doesn't react too much to slight changes. If you are well below the car's limit the low weight really shows and the car makes two backflips if you cough.
The conclusion is that you only need to get used to the car's pace and once you're used to those cornering speeds as if you were going down a road with 30km/h the feeling for the FOX comes all by itself. Once you got the general idea keep working on your line using F1 PerfView and you're ready to tackle WR-pace.
The general idea of a (in my opinion) good RWD setup is a tad bit understeer while off the throttle and balanced behaviour if you step on the accelerator. That's a very common concept for sets and requires you to balance the car using your feet, which took me quite a while to understand. Westhill is a nice track to learn that.
I hope this helps.

Vain

Quote :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakg
well, i only got a 1:08.76 - but here is a GREAT setup, the REALLY quick ones are terribly unstable, this one is very stable - enjoy!

Thanks Jakg, this is the best setup I've found for FOX yet- trimmed a couple sec's off my pb, down to an incredible 1.10.55!

Quote from Electrik Kar :

Thanks Jakg, this is the best setup I've found for FOX yet- trimmed a couple sec's off my pb, down to an incredible 1.10.55!

lol, straight from Redlines own Barlin, i think it's a great set, lot's of downforce, just a little tricky at the last bend (you have to drop it down a gear (4th?) and ease off on the enty, kiss the apex at full throttle and shift, you basicly just lift off, but just as you get off the pedal you have to put it down again

Thankfully w/ this set T1 isn't so freakish anymore, can easily get under 24.00 for the first split, which was impossible beforehand. Dropped almost another second off too- 1.09.88, a bit more respectable.. thanks again.