then lets make new cars , with 45 degrees tuned for drifting.

BlakjeKaas: Did you read Matrixi's post? How the hell would it be an advantage for other racers? How the hell would it make LFS not realistic? The change would affect only street cars and would be usefull ONLY for drifting(like in real life). When you race, you don't need much steering lock to catch a slide.. illepall You don't even see many racing sets using more than 30 degrees nowadays.

Quote from BlakjeKaas :

No... Because then It may be an advantage for racers who have 45 degrees...

So everyone takes 45 degrees, and then it's no sim... (that's not what I paid for)

Did you know that some wr holders have used dxtweak to make their steering wheel have less angle than in reality (for example only 90 degrees total)? Just to be clear, it makes their steering reaction quite much faster than if it was the usual 180/270/720 or whatever their wheel may have in reality.

Quote from Renku :

From previous discussions I've heard comments like "good/real drifters don't need more than 36 deg steering lock", and they were drifters (I got the impression). This sounds similar to requesting a tyres for drifting only.

-1 to the original suggestion.

That's just... Wow.

It's amazing how people who obviously know next to nothing about drifting come in here and give a -1 to our crazy conspiracy plan for 45.

Quote from Matrixi :

...

generally i agree with stan rather than with you
but i would agree with you if everybody were to use a (proper ie not dfp) 900 or 720 wheel

but 45° (or even just 36°) of opposite lock on a 270 or worse a 180 wheel is just way too easy for drifting and racing ... its almost cheating

Well, to keep things realistic as LFS supposedly should, it's best to let the steering lock be dictated by whatever RL car the LFS car is based on. For instance, the XR GTT's maximum lock should be determined via the original specifications of the Mitsubishi Starion and so on.

However, IRL, the real limitation on steering lock is the design of the steering system and the clearance the fenders have. In that regard, RL cars tend to be set to maximum safe possible lock in OEM trim, usually with a finite amount of extra lock left for redundancy/safety and ensure a margin of clearance. No point making a car a pig to park and manouver when more lock wn't cause clearance issues ove the suspensions range of travel.

However, as some of us already know to well, it's quite possible to safely get some extra lock out of the system if the fender clearance is still there. I'm not a drifter myself, but I simply can't see what harm 45 degrees of lock would do ATM. If LFS actually physically models the fenders and inadequate fender clearance causes tire rub, then we'll use the maximum safe possible lock as the maximum possible lock setting. As far as I'm concerned, the steering ratio is even more vital if a car has decent lock in the first place, but that setting isn't quite available yet in LFS, even for the race cars.

The ultimate solution to all this is to simply set maximum lock to whatever RL car is based on whilst adding real cars with drifter friendly steering lock such as the fabled S13s. This keeps every reasonable LFS racer/drifter happy.

Well, drifting is a real motorsport these days, so to neglect it now is just silly. As for the hardcore no drift circuit racers, don't worry, figure skating and speed skating have co-existed for a long time and so far both sports are doing well in their own ways.

Quote from Shotglass :

but 45° (or even just 36°) of opposite lock on a 270 or worse a 180 wheel is just way too easy for drifting and racing ... its almost cheating

I do see your point, but the thing is drifting would only be easier in the entry level. Hard part would be using all 45 degrees of steering as much as possible, going at über big angles with your car.

And as said before, there are real life cars with 45 degrees of lock. Why shouldn't we have the same with our simulator? Just imagine going sideways in a G25 at 900 degrees with 45 degrees of lock in XRT.. that sure as hell would keep me entertained.

Quote from Matrixi :

I do see your point, but the thing is drifting would only be easier in the entry level. Hard part would be using all 45 degrees of steering as much as possible, going at über big angles with your car.

well yes as far as drifting is concerned it will be mostly the entry level drifters that benefit from catching a messed up drift with 45°

but it also influences racing imho ... iirc biggie uses a ffgp which is a 180° wheel with very little force to stop you from turing it fast and i do believe its part of the reason why he is so fast
ive seen him do some recoveries which just arent possible with a dfp at 720 in some of his replays

Quote :

And as said before, there are real life cars with 45 degrees of lock. Why shouldn't we have the same with our simulator? Just imagine going sideways in a G25 at 900 degrees with 45 degrees of lock in XRT.. that sure as hell would keep me entertained.

if scawen finds a way to poll the dirver to check what rotation the user has set for his wheel and unlocks 45° only for users with more than say 500 on a dfp and 720 on a g25 its fine with me

and as ive said before i cant think of a single corner where i can full lock 36° on the xrt without loosing way too much speed for the next one
and i havent seen anybody else full locking his xrt either since s/t/u

Quote from Shotglass :

well yes as far as drifting is concerned it will be mostly the entry level drifters that benefit from catching a messed up drift with 45°

Actually it will mostly be the advanced (currently bored) drifters who want to take their driving in to the next level and go with more show. It will help beginning drifters, but what's the harm in that?

Quote from Shotglass :

but it also influences racing imho ... iirc biggie uses a ffgp which is a 180° wheel with very little force to stop you from turing it fast and i do believe its part of the reason why he is so fast ive seen him do some recoveries which just arent possible with a dfp at 720 in some of his replays

Like Kamkor said before, not many race sets out there are even using the current maximum steering lock angle. It doesn't matter do we have 36 or 45 degrees of lock available, people with lower rotation wheels (or mouse users) can always recover spins easier. But yet again, I see no problem here. Bear in mind that the DFP and G25 still can't turn as fast as real cars wheel can. So actually using something like a 270 or 540 degree wheel can make your feints realistic, where a DFP would turn too slow compared to real life.

Quote from Shotglass :

if scawen finds a way to poll the dirver to check what rotation the user has set for his wheel and unlocks 45° only for users with more than say 500 on a dfp and 720 on a g25 its fine with me

Why would it matter to you how many degrees of rotation people are using? Are you just against some people having easier time learning to drift?

Quote from Shotglass :

and as ive said before i cant think of a single corner where i can full lock 36° on the xrt without loosing way too much speed for the next one
and i havent seen anybody else full locking his xrt either since s/t/u

You haven't tried XRT with hybrids have you? When (or if) my G25 arrives I can gladly demonstrate such maneuver just for you. When I still had my DFP I used to constantly hit max lock in corners, setup matters a whole lot in this business.

Quote from Matrixi :

Why would it matter to you how many degrees of rotation people are using? Are you just against some people having easier time learning to drift?

imho if you want to play a sim play it properly play it with your gear set up like its intended in the sim ... the only reason why im not drifting on anything above what i can turn without letting go off the wheel is because of my useless setup (dfp without clutch pedal or shifter)

Quote :

You haven't tried XRT with hybrids have you? When (or if) my G25 arrives I can gladly demonstrate such maneuver just for you. When I still had my DFP I used to constantly hit max lock in corners, setup matters a whole lot in this business.

oooooh its never occured to me to use hybrids

+1

+1

Quote from Matrixi :

I do see your point, but the thing is drifting would only be easier in the entry level. Hard part would be using all 45 degrees of steering as much as possible, going at über big angles with your car.

And as said before, there are real life cars with 45 degrees of lock. Why shouldn't we have the same with our simulator? Just imagine going sideways in a G25 at 900 degrees with 45 degrees of lock in XRT.. that sure as hell would keep me entertained.

Simulator being the operative word.

Quote from psdf :

That's just... Wow.

It's amazing how people who obviously know next to nothing about drifting come in here and give a -1 to our crazy conspiracy plan for 45.

Here are some examples for you (original post from here):

Quote from Vendetta :

no need for a higher max lock, its fine as it is.

Other opinions I found were: The good drifters aren't having any problems. Maybe you aren't quite in that category yet? and ...n00b drifters want it. It's totaly easy drifting with 36 degrees...
Since the aren't dedicated drifters I won't post the original sources, but it seemed that they knew what they were talking about. If you want to track down the original posts, you can easily do it yourself.

True, I'm not a drifter, but I do read what other people say here, and at times do take their word for it. But you just accuse me!

Quote from psdf :

That's just... Wow.

It's amazing how people who obviously know next to nothing about drifting come in here and give a -1 to our crazy conspiracy plan for 45.

After thoroughly thinking over the deep meaning of your post, my conclusion is

-1

dude , renku , you are the noob , go look some drift , look how they drift ... after come here and telling shit.

Renku, you didn't answer my guestion. How does having more lock bother you? You also seem to be missing the point here by a long shot.

"The good drifters aren't having any problems."
Was someone saying drifters are having problems with current steering lock? Nope.

"n00b drifters want it. It's totaly easy drifting with 36 degrees"
Sounds like that comment has been written by a "n00b" himself. I have been drifting in LFS since as early as 2002 and I want more steering lock. Does that make me a "n00b" now then? Seriously mate, if you have to post something to a suggestion thread, I would suggest you gather some own opinions of the matter and not just copy paste what other people think about it.

RudolfR, you aren't really helping the cause either. Stay polite and just smile at the people who don't understand.

Quote from Renku :

Here are some examples for you (original post from here):


Other opinions I found were: The good drifters aren't having any problems. Maybe you aren't quite in that category yet? and ...n00b drifters want it. It's totaly easy drifting with 36 degrees...
Since the aren't dedicated drifters I won't post the original sources, but it seemed that they knew what they were talking about. If you want to track down the original posts, you can easily do it yourself.

True, I'm not a drifter, but I do read what other people say here, and at times do take their word for it. But you just accuse me!

You came into this thread without knowing anything about the actual topic at hand, quoted some guy from a different thread and threw in a -1. WTF? That's like me going to a thread about oval racing and saying "YAH THIS GUY ONCE SAID THAT GOOD DRIVERS DON'T NEED SLICKS U CAN DO IT WITH HYBRIDS I VOTE -1". You shouldn't vote if you don't even know what kind of effects the changes have.

I remember the wheels showing through the car body in S1-times at full lock (i.e. 45°), so in the current state the suggestion gets a -1 from me.
But if at any time the wheels can actually touch the body and not just go through it, I'd be fine with more max. lock, because you ruin your tyres by going overboard

Actually tyres showing through body is present with 36 steering lock, so I guess it needs to be lowered to 10 or something.

I don't quite understand what bad this could do, so I vote:

+1

Quote from herki :

I remember the wheels showing through the car body in S1-times at full lock (i.e. 45°), so in the current state the suggestion gets a -1 from me.

False. This happens in current LFS version too (see attachment). And what does it matter if the wheels cut through the body? Like LFS players have cared so much about fine graphical details before.

Sorry for digging my nose into this even though I don't consider myself a drifter. I just sometimes push the car aound sideways with my racing-setup after I'm done with a practice session.
But my conclusion is that increasing maximum lock basically only increases the angle at which a move is considered well done. That pretty much equals increasing grip of LFS's tyres to lower the laptime at which a lap is considered well done.
That's why I'd give this a -1.
Unless of course there are cars which come with higher lock in real life. It is, as far as I understand, possible to increase the maximum steering angle to some extend, but would the mechanical changes (beyond stock maximum angle) also influence other properties of the suspension? If that was the case LFS would have to take that into consideration.

Vain

Well, at least I cared, and you're showing, why either the models have to be adjusted, the minimum ride height has to be increased or steering lock has to be reduced further ( )
I may have not noticed this graphical glitch, because I drive from the inside view, at not ridiculously (sp?) low ride height and not the FZ5

btw: Matrixi, your tyres look nice

To prevent any tyre clipping the car body I suggest a minimum ride height fix along with 10 degree max lock for this, make every car's minimum ride height value similar to the pictured car.

Quote from Vain :

Unless of course there are cars which come with higher lock in real life. It is, as far as I understand, possible to increase the maximum steering angle to some extend, but would the mechanical changes (beyond stock maximum angle) also influence other properties of the suspension? If that was the case LFS would have to take that into consideration.

Ahem, now you DID read the whole thread didn't you? Please, read especially the middle of this post very carefully again: http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=244509#post244509 Yes, the part of real cars having more than 36 degrees of lock.

Herki, I made the car especially low to show off the 3d model cutting. The tires are made by Motary (posted to lfs-torque IIRC).